Tony,
It sounds like you may have abit too much free time on your own hands when you ask a question like this. This forum seems extremely slow these days, just like the majority of the other garden web forums. I am beginning to think the majority must be over at the paid competition's site.

It would appear that the vast majority of OP's seldom respond to their original posts, even if it is unlikely that they are trolling for topics for future talks...

well it is like this... if you forget to check that box requesting your post replies to be emailed to you it is hard as heck to find them again. you can log on the next day and your topic is lost. That is my only complaint with this forum. so maybe thinking positive the OP could not find his question again to respond to the answers

Who cares if these threads are rejoined by the OPs? They are fuel for discussion which is what this whole thing is about.

The days are short and dark and in want of civilized conversation in the far north, that's my guess. Yes, things are slow here, and I cannot bear another 'foundation planting' title. Let's start something more interesting please. I'll think on it. But you'll hate my 'year-round gardening with blooming orchids' post, my version of 'winter interest' will only make you more grouchy...

Tony, I find it most interesting to have contributors use this Forum to test ideas, question the 'norm' and reach out for help with different approaches to the 'same old'. How the answers to such questions might be received, interpreted and used by the questioner is of little interest to me. To quote Laag, "They are the fuel for discussion...."

Commercials have driven away many former members on GW and discouraged new people from joining as they try to fight their way through a blizzard of ads. IVillage has killed the golden goose and destroyed a valuable gardening resource. The same is true of everything commercialism touches and manages. Hopefully, Tony, you will not allow yourself to be 'dumbed down'. Continue to post some of your landscape thoughts which seem to generate interesting discussions. Please do not discourage thinking and ideas.

I don't interpret Ink's comment as a discouragement to thinking and ideas but rather as frustration that IB has not responded to Ink's question on IB's color wheel thread. I was curious about how IB would respond to Ink's quastion too and am disappointed that he hasn't replied. If one is going to banish the color wheel as a tool, what alternative color theory replaces it? What role does color play in landscape design in IB's view (or that of any of you..) and what tools should be used to decide on appropriate choice and combination of color in the landscape?

I went back to look at that thread. I would state the subject of the thread to be "use of color in the landscape predicated on color theory derived from a color wheel."

What I see there is a number of good statements on the matter. Are there questions there that are pointed directly at the subject? I don't seem to find them. Is every sentence that ends with a question mark deserving of an answer?

I thought Ink summed up the discussion and put a period to the thread with his words "I think this makes IB's point brilliantly. Chuck it"

Ink, I think you may be being a bit harsh in your criticism :-) IB did respond after his initial post and at least to my mind, clarified the direction of his thinking quite satisfactorily. I'd have to agree that all too often too much emphasis gets placed on the color wheel as a landscape design 'principle', primarily because it is related to colors that are going to be present mostly with floral attributes rather than all the other myriad elements of a landscape design. And therefore, by extension, this places unnecessary weight/emphasis on flowers as a major factor in a design.

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to encourage banishing the wheel, as I believe understanding color theory does have a place in the greater concept of any visual design philosophy but that place needs to be tempered by relative importance. If one is designing a mixed perennial border ala Christopher Lloyd, that importance is far greater than that of the typical suburban home landscape, with its primary focus on woody plant material. But few of us have the space (or the time and effort) necessary to pull off a well-planned expansive massed perennial planting.

And that leads to a further issue: the gardening public - and by extrapolation, many participants in this forum - are a changing demographic. The generation of avid and knowledgeable hobby gardeners is being supplanted by Gen X and Y'ers who appreciate and desire a well-planned landscape yet have little interest in the plants themselves other than requiring that they look good for the longest possible time with minimal maintenance. That in itself reduces the emphasis on flowers to provide the major aesthetic or color contribution to the landscape. If the discussion of color theory and the use of the color wheel were more directed towards the more subtle applications of color in the landscape - the various shades and tones of foliage, stem and bark color, stone, wood and other hardscape materials - then I think the emphasis is far more relevant.

One of the endearing (and sometimes misunderstood) qualities that Tony has always brought to this forum has been his passion. Another of his character traits that I particularly appreciate is his unmitigated candor. In these times of profuse, politically correct drivel, society could use a little more candor. These two hallmark qualities, coupled with TonyÂs depth of background knowledge and his piercing intellect will always grant him a position of respect with this Iowa clod kicker.

I apologize for my tardy response to the color wheel questions  they will be forthcoming in the near future. The delayed response has not been due to sinister motives but simply lack of time. Hopefully, I should have a few, important loose ends tied within the next few days. In actuality, I composed a rough (very rough) draft of a response within a few hours of TonyÂs original query. However, any of you who practice the craft of wordsmithing, know that penning cogent thoughts requires considerable effort.

As to gleaning ideas from this forum and then claiming them to be my own Â
It seems to me that this practice would be counter productive. There is little doubt that nuggets extrapolated from this forum (and books, lectures, workshops, symposiums, etc.) have been shared by me with others. However, I long ago recognized that supporting information is perceived to carry more weight with an audience if the source is an outside expert. Any speaker who attempts to persuade an audience with an overuse of "I", soon loses credibility with that audience. He is quickly distinguished as merely another braggart.

Like General Douglas MacArthur: I shall return!
IronBelly

Just to demonstrate how I practice what I preach let me offer as an example the "Efficient use of small space" thread. Andrew asks a question that could open up a discussion about, well, the efficient use of small space or it could be that the OP is only looking for praise or agreement, we will see.

I figured that's what it was, he just hadn't been back. Some queries do sit for quite for a long time, only to have the person asking reapper later - sounding as though they hadn't looked again before then, if not actually stating as much.

>I am beginning to think the majority must be over at the paid competition's siteFunny how that happened, if it did. Why pay for the priviledge instead of just using ad blockers, which you'd think pretty much everyone would have to be using by now anyway? Of course, some got miffed for other reasons.

When I check out other sites, including that one I don't see all that much more going on. I think part of it is that everyone is now spread too thin for any one site or forum to be hopping. You'd think there would be huge participation but apparently not that many people are interested in weighing in (lurkers appear to be much more numerous, where sites have counters).

As do some other forums here. So I think it's not just the site, with its pop-ups etc. There's just a certain amount of people looking to talk online about certain interests, where a nerve is hit there is plenty of response. Takes me back to the idea they should collapse the forums into a much more consolidated list of topics.

Here is a link that might be useful: GardenWeb Antique Roses Forum

Sorry bboy, you are always so enigmatic what does your link prove?

Several random responses from a "lurker"

Paid competition who? I joined this web just about the time iVillage took over. I find the pop ups that do get through my blocker annoying but I am too cheap to pay to lurk. I do have to say that I miss Michelle, the Zonial Denial gal though.

Has it been considered that sometimes the OP may need to chew on the responses. YOu don't want to dismiss critiques out of hand because it didn't fit your preconceived notion of what you wanted to do. That is no excuse, however, when I've seen an OP repeatedly dismiss well thought out criticisms/suggestions.

Then there's always the lack of knowledge on the subject posted to prevent one from leaping in. I don't know enough about color theory to say "Yea, nay or maybe" That doesn't mean that I may not do some researching and learn something later. I remember a while back a thread about pattern designs on the ground with links to some modern painter with all these blocks of bright primary colors/grids etc. It was fascinating. I didn't understand 90% of it.

Don't think its only the Gen X and Yers that consider landscape a commodity, which in truth it is. I am an avid hobby gardener but many homeowners are not. Point in case, my 70+ y/o inlaws. They wanted a berm planting to provide privacy for their kitchen dining nook. They knew they didn't have the skills or the inclination to execute one and were honest enough to admit it. They hired someone, a landscape architect, to do it for them.

Posts may be few because of fear. This IS an intimidating forum. Enough said 'cause this has all been said before.

Lastly, people don't post because of TIME. There are about eight other things that I should be doing right now instead of cruising the internet. I lurk around, and rarely post on, this forum because gardening and trying to develope an appreciation for design are two of the things that keep life fun. Do I really have time to do this. Nah. It keeps me sane though. I have had thoughts on things I would hope could generate design questions but to form these into coherant questions hasn't happened because of time (and a lack of typing skills).

Sorry for the length of this. They are only musings from another Iowa clod kicker. Maria

>Sorry bboy, you are always so enigmaticSome forums on this site have lots of new posts all the time, so it must not be just the way the site is being run now that accounts for the lack of action on certain forums - here's an example of one of those other forums that is busy most of the time

Got it Ron, you just had to speak a bit louder, that's all.

I notice that ink seems to really have an issue with ironbelly and uses every opportunity to make nasty remarks about him. Do you guys know each other in real life? It sure seems to me that ink has a huge grudge.

No, you've got that wrong. None of my remarks are meant by me or perceived as "nasty" by IB, what I say is intended and received as challenging. I will go further to say that in the years that we have both been posting here this sparring is when we both get to stretch WITHOUT taking offense. It is what is being said that I challenge, the last paragraph in my original post was intended to be provocative and if I didn't know IB better I would consider it below the belt and wouldn't have written it.
There is no grudge, see he is a big boy and so am I.

I think that naming someone by real name is a bit of a low blow, unless IB has done this himself before and I haven't caught it.

KarinL

In fairness - although posters can defend themselves - IB did post a piece he'd written using his name on the Iowa Gardening forum. Don't think that's quite so frought with danger as folks on the "other side" of this website posting pictures of their kids and grandkids. What are they thinking!!

I have never thought the uses of first names on this forum have ever been done for reasons other that of the expression of the familiarity that many of us have developed over the years.

Tony is certainly not the only person who refers to me by name. We are a community.

Outed! Outed!

Probably the main risk is your home computer being hacked, with it being known beforehand what your real name is. On the other hand, maybe it doesn't make any difference.

Speaking for myself  I occasionally do that  I have no problem with the Inkster using my real name. For years, I have certainly kept it no secret. If I really wanted to, I could track down about any person who posts anything on the internet. To a very large degree, the "safety precautions" that most people practice are worthless.

For example: Listing your living area as "The United States" on the personal page that you fill out to join the GardenWeb is a joke. The only thing that it does is impair receiving good answers from honest folks. If someone is out to get you  they will get you.

I have participated on the GardenWeb forums since their inception. Over all of these years, I have only had problems with one little punk (who has been kicked off the forums twice) that had taken to sending me numerous, vulgar emails. As Tony has already said; I am a big boy. Although I think vulgar language is merely proof that you have nothing to say, I did not want my wife to repeatedly view such mental fecal material. I tracked him down through my computer. As it turns out, he was trying to cover his tracks by surreptitiously doing his dirty work on a business computer after hours. Ummm  I believe he lost his job over that little error in judgment.

As Duluth has already noted, I regularly post my little column, "Thoughts From the Belly" over on the Iowa Forum with my real name and real email address included. Call me Dan if you wish  I have certainly been called far worse! I post my real email address so that people can contact me directly. Send me an off-forum email if you wish. Tell me you agree, disagree, ask a question or tell me what a jerk you think I am. I will politely respond to any and all.

IronBelly

Interesting that so many people know how to do stuff like tracking someone down through their computer.

Or is it alarming? This year we were all told 1 out of 4 would have their home computers hacked.

If someone would share the trick for tracking with me I would be most grateful. I just reviewed the thread where vicki_ca referred to "viewing and reading the code in "page source"" to unmask someone posting under two names, but don't quite get how to do this...

And yes, I know IB has used his own name in one place, but to my mind it remains his to use or not use in other places. It just seemed gratuitous to me here. Maybe winter is making us all snarky. I finally got rid of the neighbours' conifer and have my rock garden in place, but can't plant much as it is too freaking wet!

KarinL

"We are a community" says Andrew and I believe this is true. We must pay attention to those with a different view however and if by naming IB I have caused him any harm this was not, definitely not my intention. Once upon a time I used to post under my given name and displayed my e.mail addy but then I had some weird messages at home and Spike took exception to what IB calls 'candour' and several name changes later I decided to come in disguise. Those that knew me before, Ann, Andrew, Dan, Susan etc. know that I am not hiding behind a pseudonym but have taken it for protection. Lots of people do it, Ron does it. I mean no harm to anyone other than fools and Iron Belly is not one of those. So at the end of this, hopefully the end, I was expressing my frustration at being left in the air again because a subject was not explored but had only the surface scratched. The man himself, being a big boy as I said before,rose to the occasion and created a thread that surpasses most of the trivial stuff read in magazines.