Not useful nor helpful.

Will that help stop blossom end rot?

Keeping the plant-soil evenly watered (best done with lots of compost in the soil to hold water). When a plant is water stressed the calcium goes to the developing leaves and there is little that gets to the developing fruit (especialy with plum shaped fruit because of their internal structure). It doesn't matter how much calcium is in the soil at that point. This happens a lot in the spring time when the plant has roots developed for cool cloudy weather and then it gets hit with hot days and bright sun (not enough roots to supply the plant). You could also wait until little fruits are present before pruning off lower leaves (if that is your practice for fungal prevention anyway) as it would shift the root to leaf ratio at a good time.

Calcium sprays boost calcium in the leaves so that there is more for the fruits, but I don't believe the calcium in milk is not in a good form to get into the leaves. Even with the calcium sprays the commercial greenhouses use the increase in harvestable fruit is not very high...economically advantageous, but not high.

My thoughts are I can't imagine what one would be reading that encourages foliar-applied milk as a Ca source for plants, nor what one would be reading that indicates spraying milk is a good source of Ca. Its fine to try for powdery mildew, but Ca source? One would be well-served to find some new reading sources, methinks. If you have BER change your watering program, as foliar spray of Ca will not alleviate the symptoms (as your research found).

Dan

University research (in Brazil, IIRC) has shown dilute milk to be effective in controlling certain tomato leaf diseases. I tried it but I wasn't methodical enough in my applications to verify or debunk it.

I think spiced ham has it right in his post re BER, (although you didn't say that was the reason you want to provide calcium). I find BER affects only the first few fruits.

Jim

Ok for those who say there is no reason take a look at the E-How website. I was asking if anyone had expiernce not just what you "think" is good or not. Thanks.

What e-How website? Provide a link to it.

eHow is just one person's personal opinion on how to do something. There are far more reputable info sites available about gardening and quite honestly I am very surprise to find a Master Gardener as your user name implies even reading it much less citing it.

That said, it is always best to first understand what is causing the particular problem you are addressing be it calcium deficiency, foliar disease, or BER. Is your soil Ca++ deficient? Have you had a soil test done? Do you know that Ca++ deficient soil is VERY rare? Do you understand the effects of the unusual wet weather this spring has on Ca++ ion distribution through the plant? Do you understand how the stoma on the plant leaf works or even where located? Do you understand the effects that foliar spraying of any thing can have on the leaf's ability for photosynthesis? And so on and so on.

Good info, well substantiated by agricultural research info has been provided to you on BER, it's causes and its effects. Much more info is available on the web from legit resources.

It also helps to realize that millions of pounds of tomatoes are grown annually by both commercial and experienced home gardeners without 1 drop of milk being applied to them. No egg shells, no crushed TUMs tablets, no bloom-set spray, or any of the many other guaranteed to cure witches brews one reads about on the web. That fact alone should make you at least question the validity of the info you have been reading.

But they are your plants to do with as you wish. Experiment. It is all a learning process. But as Jim pointed out to make any claims based on your results you will have to keep good detailed records of application dates, rates of applications, # of fruit produced per plant, have several control plants, etc. Did your eHow resource do that? If not then it is just personal opinion and of little value to others.

Dave

I was asking if anyone had expiernce not just what you "think" is good or not. Well, you said Any thought? in your original post... If you mean to ask for experiences, you may do so by not asking for thoughts.

That EHow is a weak source (thanks for providing the ref so no one has to search for it). Two refs are dead, one contradicts the assertion, and the other is to a secondary source (blog) that doesn't support the assertion either. It doesn't get much worse than that.

It is well-known and well-evidenced (including a ref in the eHow that was erroneously ref'd as support for the incorrect assertion) that a foliar feeding does not deliver Ca to the fruit to prevent or obviate BER. There are dozens of discussions on this board - with citations - that discuss this issue. Dozens.

EHow is far down the list as a credible primary source. Surely if you actually took a Master Gardener course with some chemistry and botany in it you'd understand about Ca in plants, how immobile it is, and what is the cause of BER and how to avoid it, as explained upthread. One of the most common questions real MGs get is BER in toms. Therefore they are taught about it. They are not taught a milk foliar feeding helps alleviate BER by delivering Ca. No one is taught that. Anywhere. Because it is not true.

HTH

Dan

Dan,

Two long time friends of mine in two different states completed master gardener training. While both are competent, enthusiastic gardeners, neither seems to have the depth of knowledge you apparently expect of master gardeners in matters such as chemistry and plant physiology. I believe the training is more limited than that. Certainly is is not the equivalent of several college level courses. More likely it is a few once a week sessions.

BTW, several years ago I did a foliar feeding experiment (not specifically about calcium) to satisfy my curiosity. It's still archived on the Garden Experiments Forum.

Jim

Here is a link that might be useful: Foliar Feeding

You may be right, Jim, and I doubt there are many MG trainings and fewer Extension Offices that don't have literature about BER and how to overcome it. And I'm sure that there is some number of Extension Offices that say a milk spray helps suppress powdery mildew and similar foliar ailments.

Dan

The MG name is in fact a name. ;)

I am just asking for experamentle purpose. A garden that an individual is growing is using just MG tomatoe feed. I told him that it lacks Ca he said what about milk and I laughed. Then I thought about it and figured I would ask. I use the Generial Hydro line 3-part with Ca+Mg, Amino acids, and other supplements. Fact is I grow huge vegatibles that require extreme trellising because of their overly fattened fruit year after year ;). Sorry could not help to use the name masterG becuase fact is I just am, with or with out classes.

"You may be right, Jim, and I doubt there are many MG trainings and fewer Extension Offices that don't have literature about BER and how to overcome it. "

"I believe the training is more limited than that. Certainly is is not the equivalent of several college level courses. More likely it is a few once a week sessions"

Training? lol

Training? lol
You've got a point. Who needs formal training when you've got E-How dot com?

Let's not turn this into a flame on Master Gardener training programs which IMO are quite good and perform free and valuable community services.

Those who make the effort, who spend the 80+ hours in classes and do all the homework and all the hours of associated volunteer service deserve respect. And the title isn't one that should be claimed unless it's actually earned.

Dave

I don't think anyone was flaming Master Gardener programs. The point being made (unless I am way off) is that somebody who had been through a Master Gardener program should know that milk is not a good source of calcium for plants.
I personally put Master Gardener programs well within the "formal training" category as opposed to getting your information from goofy web content factories like "ehow".

In case my previous post sounds in any way like a deprecation of master gardener programs, it is not intended that way. My point is that I would not expect the training to go beyond the bounds of standard gardening practice. So, I would not expect the topic of milk as a plant nutrient to be specifically dealt with in the program. It is a question which depends more on general knowledge and reasoning than horticultural education.

I'm not certain that milk wouldn't be useful for supplying calcium to plants. And, to answer the OP, I think it would lower the pH, not raise it. I say that because of the lactic acid which is produced as mild ferments. I do think other sources of calcium are more economical however. And I believe that calcium deficiency is often a misdiagnosis, especially with regard to blossom end rot.

Jim

I never went to MG classes. No need there is E-How like gargwarb said ;). No but really if you have to take a class to garden then you should stick with your day job. Maybe it is time for some pics. I am sorry but I just dont see E-How lieing. I dont believe everthing I read but I am open to new ideas this is why i learn more because I am not a Know it all like alot here.

So like somone said here large commericial ag companies use it so I fugur those guys need too learn right? O no thats right they make a living at it thats funny? So what do you have to say about that are those large companies just looking at E-How? Opps, Sorry about that but I just had to ;)

Again I myself would never spray my plants with milk due to the smell.

I am agruing with people I agree with so this is a funny post. I have noticed people use it to stop end root but if your plants have Ca then that wont happen.

Thanks for your time.

I am sorry but I just dont see E-How lieing.

If you sincerely consider ehow an authority on plant physiology, then you should... I mean, maybe think about... or if you just... Ah jeez. I'm not even sure how to address that. Just, holy cow.

So like somone said here large commericial ag companies use it ....

Calcium sprays were mentioned, not milk for plant nutrition.
(Although, if you want to talk commercial production there are honest to goodness uses for milk in the realm of disease control.)

O no thats right they make a living at it thats funny?

I think what you fail to realize is that a lot of the people that you are arguing with (yet in an unfathomable twist, agree with) actually hold undergradute and/or advance degrees is plant sciences and are involved professionally in commercial agriculture and horticulture.

In case my previous post sounds in any way like a deprecation of master gardener programs, it is not intended that way.

No Jim my comment wasn't directed at you but at the OP, the one who calls himself a Master Gardener yet clearly has no knowledge of what Master Gardener certification means, is about, or what it entails. Since he makes comments like "No but really if you have to take a class to garden then you should stick with your day job" there is no point in trying to enlighten him.

And no one said "large commericial ag companies use it". They do not.

What spiced ham said is Even with the calcium sprays[not milk] the commercial greenhouses use[who are growing hydroponically] the increase in harvestable fruit is not very high...economically advantageous, but not high. Calcium supplement sprays are not the same thing as milk. They too have been extensively studied and have their own documented problems such mal-formed fruit. But some GH's do use them. Still commercial greenhouse tomato production is only a small part of the AG production of tomatoes in this country.

But since this whole discussion is supposedly just a big joke anyway (according to the OP) one has to wonder why it was even posted and there is little point in continuing it.

Dave

Take a look at E-How. It would not bother to state info that was not true. Please consider that e-how would not go about that with out sources. So your saying that e-how is just WRONG? I am sorry but that is funny I cant get over seeing E-How go through the trouble to write that along with many other sources I have found.

"I'm not even sure how to address that"

So your saying/feeding w/milk plants cant get any Ca from it regardless of the smell or idea of using milk? Not only to fight/prevent disease.

In conclusion Can plants uptake Ca from milk. Im not asking if it is an economical or practical application.

Thanks.

"But since this whole discussion is supposedly just a big joke anyway (according to the OP) one has to wonder why it was even posted and there is little point in continuing it."

Again. Can plants uptake Ca from milk. Im not asking if it is an economical or practical application. That is no joke.
I know it can help with disease/fungus but tho whole point of this was to see if it can help with Ca. Does the MG name really get you? lol

Thanks.

"No but really if you have to take a class to garden then you should stick with your day job"

The reason I said this was because alot where just assuming that I was A MG and where going on about classes and I would know milk doesnt work because I am a MG,ect....

For anyone who takes classes I have aswell and I also donate alot of time to building gardens for a hobby. That is maybe why I used the MG name just because I like gardening so much as you can see. I have alot to learn on here and this is why I am posting.

Thank you for your time.

Take a look at E-How. It would not bother to state info that was not true. Please consider that e-how would not go about that with out sources. So your saying that e-how is just WRONG? I am sorry but that is funny I cant get over seeing E-How go through the trouble to write that along with many other sources I have found.

That about says it all right there. What can you say after that? [killfile]

-----------

My point is that I would not expect the training to go beyond the bounds of standard gardening practice. So, I would not expect the topic of milk as a plant nutrient to be specifically dealt with in the program.

Jim, the BH still teaches MG classes. I only teach a couple Community MG classes every once in a while, so I may be out of touch and a poor source for what they do these days. But MGs wherever I've been get a good amount of time on BER, as it is common. The whole thing is hit: rapid heat onset, insufficient water uptake, Ca movement, remedies, a Ca source at planting, etc. MGs with their hours and table time can all tell you what to do. And it sure isn't spraying milk. And this side of the Mississippi, Ca isn't generally deficient in our soils, so we're inclined to eschew sprays and the like anyways...

Dan

[killfile]
No kidding.

I'm glad I skipped this thread for a long time - it was more fun reading all the replies at one time!

But I learned some things I didn't know:

1) If something is posted on the net, especially E-how, it is true. Period.

2) Claiming you grow tall plants makes you a Master Gardener. My five-year-old nephew grew an 18' sunflower so he is now an MG.

I have heard of people using milk on plants, but not to prevent BER. The story (folklore from Brown County?) is that adding it to blossoms of some plants - pumpkins come to mind - helps the fruit to grow to huge sizes. I'll wait until I read this on E How before accepting it as a fact, though.

Mike

Tall plants? I grow veggies that require extreme trellising to support their overly fattened fruits ;). I use amino acids in my fert line alot on here also say that they dont do anything either. This is funny GH makes amino acids for plants but people on here ("pros") say that they are not even needed?
"My five-year-old nephew grew an 18' sunflower so he is now an MG."

Yes some day he may be ;)

Maybe you should take a look at the GH line you might learn somthing.

You should be able to edit!!!!!

"1) If something is posted on the net, especially E-how, it is true. Period. "
True.

My five-year-old nephew grew an 18' sunflower so he is now an MG.

Hie kin probiblie spel betuer two. :D

happyday

Yes I am glad you pointed out my genius.

If I worried how to spell then I would not be where I am today. No reason to waste all that time learning spelling/grammer. I just skiped that all and leaped right into successfulness. (That was a hard one for me to spell btw) ;)

You think trolling on GW constitutes success?

Let me guess, you are a pothead looking for tips on marijuana growing, is that right? There are websites elsewhere for you guys. Why are you trolling here?

Did you know there are retired and active duty cops who regularly post here because they enjoy vegetable, or as you spell it, vegatible, gardening?

" There are websites elsewhere for you guys. Why are you trolling here? "

It is sad that you are saying this on here because of just how poluted the web is with that stuff. Because I am spelling wrong makes me a "pothead" as you say. I was born with a disability and I am kind of hurt by this believe it or not. Sorry for posting such negative responses everyone. I am a big fan of debates thats all.

Spelling correctly is not necessary to become rich.

Being rich isnt everything.

This post has gone bad i see ;)

happyday

I cant believe how you are viewing me. I write this very fast so I am sorry everyone for my sloppy gramer. I read back and I wrote some pretty stupid stuff. I just like producing somthing I can eat. Every chance I get I come on here and write "wacky" ideas that I just wanted to here what people think.

Where this is a garden forum, I think everyone likes to get a chance to make fun of somthing or somone for a good laugh. I am reading this and lauphing at things I wrote even though I knew it was pretty stupid when I was writing it.:)

I would never use milk to spray but when I looked it up and noticed it on E-how I just had to ask some gardeners.

Thank you.

TheMasterGardener1, I suggest you change your handle. That would avoid the Master Gardener confusion.

May I suggest "The@$$clownTrollinator".

One of my best gardening buddies swears by it. Anytime her tomatoes develop blossom end rot (and even other assorted maladies), she gives the plant a "glass of milk". Each time she does it, she calls me to report her outstanding results. I was highly skeptical at first, but I cannot argue with her results. (can't explain them either....)

donnabaskets,

Thank you very much. Now I see that it does work.

Thanks.

Every time my tomatoes get BER I urinate on the plants and I don't have any more problems for the rest of the season. It also works for stunted plants.

When my tomatoes get BER I throw away the bad tomatoes and I don't have any more problems for the rest of the season, either. Works like a charm.

Studies have been done and for milk to prevent BER it has to be un-pasteurized milk only. It has to be collected from only brown cows with white spots and never from white cows with brown spots. It must be collected during the dark of the moon when that new moon was on a Tuesday.

Then you add 4 eggs, 2 T of witch hazel, 1 drop of copperhead venom, and 1 teaspoon of roasted mango root to each 8 oz. of milk and blend well. Apply to the plants between the hours of 3 and 4 am only once the moon reaches its full apogee.

Dave

Hi Dave,
Is there any substitutes for the Copperhead venom, I used up my last bit and I can't locate a new source.???

I agree that E-how is just a bunch of lies.

Anything you see on the GW Vegetable Gardening Forum however, is absolutely reliable.

Jim

"I'm glad I skipped this thread for a long time"

I wish I had continued to skip it...

"I'm glad I skipped this thread for a long time"

"I wish I had continued to skip it..."

Ditto. But I'd like to shout out my appreciation to Dave (Digdirt) for continually setting the example that you can offer knowledge and even engage in debate without having to lower to personal slams or color his comments with arrogant, snarky side comments that serve no purpose other than to show everyone what an a$$ they are. It's refreshing.

arrogant, snarky side comments that serve no purpose other than to show everyone what an a$$ they are

Tsk, tsk. Now you have done exactly the same. Pot kettle black.

I made this idea up. I put a 1/2 Tums in the bottom of the hole when I plant the tomato plants. Tis cheap and I figure if the plants need the calcium, it's there if they need it.

I don't know if it works but I don't get BER on my tomatoes:)
I get top cracks and funguses galore.....but never BER.

Lori