Creeping bent is definitely an alternative lawn. If you mix them, don't mix perennial rye. KBG and fescue mix well. The problem is not so much in the eventual outcome as it is in getting it started. Ryegrass germinates in a week, fescue in 2 weeks, and KBG in 3 weeks. The problem is many (most?) people see the fast germination of the rye and think that is all the grass. The cut back on the 3x per day watering too early and they never get any KBG. KBG is the work horse of these lawns. It is the one that will fill in all the gaps between all the rest of the seeds. If you know this in advance, then you can go ahead and mix the three. Just remember you need to water daily, 3x per day, for a full 3-4 weeks to get 80% of all the grasses germinated. Don't stop early. You do not need topsoil to refresh the lawn. You do not need it to refresh the soil either. What you likely need is that soil test followed by, or even preceded by, organic fertilizer. A lot of people will tell you compost is what you need. Compost will do the same thing, but compost will cost you 6x more than the organic fertilizer needed to get the same effect. This year the organic fertilizer I like the best is alfalfa pellets (rabbit chow). Apply at 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet at least once and your soil will improve a lot. Apply as much as monthly if you want to improve it a lot and do it fast. You can get a 50 pound bag of alfalfa pellets at your local feed store for about $12 this year. This late in the season...if you don't use all the alfalfa, wait a week or so and put it all down. Being an organic feed, it gets buggy and maybe ratty or mousey. But if it is on the ground, they will not bother it. It gets moldy right away - and that beneficial fungus is exactly what your soil needs to become refreshed.

Oh- you do not know what you are missing if you don't try this at least once.... Hosta just LOVE being wintersown! And it is so much fun to watch those little wee ones grow and grow! You know all those clematis that can be fussy to start? Well, just stick them out early- in the fall- let them freeze and thaw with the frosts- and poof! You have little baby Clemmies come spring! Well- usually... Tender annuals and tomatoes(!) can be spring sown- after the worst of the winter is over. Sandy is right though- they do not come up like the ones in the stores- they do come up a bit late- BUT- they will have the best root structure you have ever seen (truly!!) and will catch up in no time to the store bought green house started weaker rooted- transplanted and shipped and stored, stressed and shocked cousins..... Any perennial hardy to our zone is a shoe in for wintersowing! Most hardy annuals or anything that will reseed in a garden can be wintersown. Trees, shubs, they all do well this way! You do not have to water (well, till they really take off in the spring)- give up house space or pay the electric bill for these plants. You do not have to stress about damp off- those pesky little black flies- none of the usual seed starting worries. You don't need to buy special sterile seed starting mixes- You can start a boat load (literally! There are those that use their boats to hide their containers in) of seeds- and still go on vacation to the warmer regions in winter- and you won't have to find a plant sitter. All will be fine when you return! You will however start looking at "trash" in a whole new light! Can that be used to winter sow in? Can I just grab that container without any one noticing? You will start asking the friends and family to "save" this or that container for you.... They will look at you kinda funny- especially when they see you have poked holes into the bottom for drainage.... And when they come over to visit- They will be wondering about all of those containers sitting out in the snow... Yeah, you can try to hide them- but they will be pointed out just in case they might have overlooked them... The guys at the Home Depot will be muttering about the crazy person that has to have frozen big bags of miracle grow brought in to be paid for, and hauled out to the car because you had no idea last fall when the bags were light and dry, just how many containers of seeds you wanted to try this with... It is hard to get those bags into the house - and then to wait for them to thaw for a couple of days before you can use it is harder yet... But- all will be revealed to friends and family- and well, to the neighbors too- when all of those containers start producing more plants than you know what to do with! You will be bringing them flats full of plants! They will be gardening and expanding their beds right along with you... Yep- the fun and rewards never end with this "winter" hobby.

Hi! I am a newbie to the forum, and am SO excited to have an information website such as this!! I have been gardening for 15 years or so- but it's all been trial and error. I would love some seeds- any low care perennials or really good tomato seeds. Next year- I would love to do my entire veggie garden from seeds. My favorite plants are shady perennials, veggies, and we also dabble with some tropicals that we dig up every year and replant every spring- such as bananas, etc. Looking forward to getting to know alot of you. Best of gardening season to you'all. email address- beachcoby@yahoo.com Thanks SO much for this thread!!

Well, close to 'Pluto Time' here (astronomical-minded gardeners can Google that one for a kick!), but I just looked at the 'Zuni' again. Definitely, I would NOT call it purple, it's a RICH, saturated MAGENTA (though I see why you say that based on the picture). Catawba is purple, there's a difference. I'm not color blind but the funny thing is, when I went out this morning I intended to get a pale lavender Crape, got (another) pale pink one by mistake, might have been the heat, (though the new pink one is different from the 'Hopi' I have as it has white in it as well as pink; then of course, I went back for the pale, silvery lavender (having had to confirm this by asking a female shopper). LOL! Our favorite (so far) is the 'HOPI' hands down (which is, I believe classified as an 'Intermediate'..., not a dwarf by any means). Not sure how 'Zuni' compares with 'Hopi' (other than floral color). Wait till you see the Dynamites..., those are just coming into flower but will bloom into October. Will try to get another shot of the Zuni tomorrow.