If I am reading you correctly your potting mix is supporting ants and worms. What is in this mix?

Are there simply ants wandering around or do they have an actual nest/mound in the containers?

If it were me I would probably replace the container mix and ask myself why worms and ants were highly attracted to it.

At the same time if you were happy with the growth of your summer plants prior to the storm then perhaps you will be happy with the growth of the fall crop as well.

The reason I would replace it is that the ants are there to eat something in the mix as are the worms. This means the organic component of the mix is likely being collapsed (made into tiny particles) rapidly. The smaller the particle size of the mix (regardless of what the mix is made of) the more water it holds and the less air.

For me fall is a rainy/cool time when water doesn't evaporate all that quickly and plants don't suck it up rapidly like in summer so over watering becomes difficult to avoid with fine particled mixes.

You didn't say if you are organic, so I'd get some of those bottles with sticky goo in them that the ants take back to the queen (wherever she may be) and when she eats dinner, she will die, and then so will they. Worms have no interest in that stuff, but worms bring joy to the soil, so I'd leave them alone.

The only organic thing I can think of is to dump hot boiling water again and again in the pot. It not only will sterilize the soil, it will kill the ants and of course, the worms.

Good luck!
Suzi

I am new to molasses but supposedly the blackstrap molasses will kill fire ants AND feed micro-organism in the soil. Try putting 1 tablespoon of blackstrap molasses in a gallon of warm water and dumping this on each container. (One gallon + one TBSP molasses) for each container. Must be blackstrap molasses not other types! Have I tried this? No.

Links:
http://www.aogc.org/discus/messages/7/62.html?1141836625
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-Kill-Ants-Not-Aunts!-The-Organic-Way/

DL

I did not have a chance to have a look at the above links yet but, if fire ants ever grow wings, we are in deep manure!!! I have controlled other plants with ant infestations (other than fire ants) by using sevin, but you can't use that if you'll be using it for fruit or veggies. Maybe treat that lot with sevin and use a different one for your planned use...

Good luck
Shannon

Shannon...news flash....fire ants DO enter a winged stage. We will typically see this in the summer when winged males and females fly from the nest to mate several hundred feet in the sky. What's reeeaalllly scary is coming upon a nice big fire ant nest just as this exodus is beginning. The sight of thousands of fire ants in the air is nightmare material.

laurak, we need more information from you if you would like some help. What kind of medium are you using?

thanks for your responses. I guess my original post was written a bit quickly as I had just found the creatures and freaked out :)
the mix is MG potting,pine fines,perlite,compost and some fert to add minors.It was an attempt to extend the use of the MG for 2 seasons. Live and learn!
It grew great tomato plants untill they were wiped out by the weather. That's why i was so suprised about the ants. I never expected to find that. Even the corn was growing well.
They seem to be a very busy,populated nests. There is no mound and they are not Fire ants. I'm not sure we have those here in NJ. They are in almost every container. I'm thinking there must be a "main" nest near the garden spot and they migrated
I get the feeling that this won't be usable unless treated...

Laura,
I don't know what is safe for food and worms, but not ants. Sorry :(

Rhizo,
I never ever knew they flew! I am very afraid of most flying insects anyway, so maybe I saw them and thought they were something else..? I was attacked by a mound as a kid, and have been very allergic to the acetic acid ever since. One bite, man it gets bad!! I have to watch every step I take down here to make sure they aren't around. Our yard is pretty safe, but my DH has to keep the bait out for me.
The article I read said the males die after mating and the potential queens quickly become wingless. I was picturing flying fire ants migrating to say NJ... that'd be really bad!!! Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge!

Shannon

Laura I would just replace it personally, but if you must reuse it you could try just laying the mix out on a tarp. This may sufficiently disturb the ants that they move out on their own within a few days.

I've also found that ants don't like it when you water. They scatter everywhere, so maybe if you lay the soil out like Jag said, or even put it into a container with drainage and then water.... maybe they'll just flea (flee) :)

Boric acid is also good for treating pests and not too hard on beneficials. The phytotoxicity is still in debate though. I have read that it has been used in soils planted with food crops, but the EPA still wants more testing done.

I was also curious on how to better control plants with ants =D

Good luck
Shannon

Here is a link that might be useful: Info on Boric Acid use as a Pesticide

Ok this is getting silly. Get those ant traps and kill the beasties!!

Boric acid can be toxic to plants if used in the soil. However, boric acid laced BAITS are highly effective. I've used Terro brand with great success, but there are other manufacturers of boric acid bait stations. Read and follow the directions on the label.

You shouldn't be surprised that ants find containers a terrific place to set up housekeeping. Nice, loose soil for one thing. Do you think that the worms came in with the compost? For the future, it's a good idea to keep both worms AND compost out of a container medium. Neither benefit the workings of a container mix at all, and are best left to the outdoor garden areas.

lol! Shannielyn! I keep picturing the flying monkeys from "Wizard of Oz"! :)

Justaguy- super idea! Tarp it is. I'll set the worms free- some are huge! ( anyone want some for fishing?)and see how things are for next year.
i'll stick a few traps around for good measure. Cheap enough to try for now and i'll start fresh next year, need be.
Funny thing - I have 5 containers set in another area for potatoes and not a single ant in those. but more huge worms!

thanks all!!! you made me smile!

I did not think winged ants grow in NJ. ;)

You sure they are not gnats?

hi Vervaine- We do get them in certain stages of growth. I'm no expert and really don't want to look at photos to figure out which ones they were though. I can pet a snake but ants and scorpions make my skin crawl! Thankfully we don't have scorps in NJ! I'd move!
And now back to planning next years containers! :)

The reproductive stage of ALL ant species involves wings. The males and the females have to fly in order to mate, after which the gravid females fly to find a suitable nesting location where she will become queen. The males, no longer needed, die soon after mating.

This winged cycle doesn't last very long, and unless you spend quite a bit of time outside, you may not ever witness it.

Did you actually have to say that? POOP!!!!

More flying insects (or monkeys) to be afraid of. Thank God for bats LOL!!!

Oh BTW, we do have scorpions down here too! Just another thing Jag can suprise me with their flying abilities: whatch out NJ, Here we come!!! =D

Because of Jag's knowledge, I will spend even less time out side. Unless plants have adapted to air conditioning, ummm, I dunno nuthin! (Stilll ROTFL)!!!

I've learned to love lizards, snakes, bats, and this new cool electric bug lamp!!

Funny stuff (some)
Shannon

wait a minute-wait a minute= ===FLA. HAS SCORPIONS??!!
So much for my carefree vacations! Now for bats, Shannon- this is just for you- the night we returned from our last visit to fla, we came home to find a bat hanging upsidedown from the curtain rod. i will not elaborate on our antics trying to get the thing to go outside.. So help me if next time it's a scorp curled up in my luggage.

off to buy the worlds biggest fly-swatter. Better safe then sorry :)

Ants won't eat your veggies. Visceral reactions and irrational fears aren't a rational reason to kill something IMO.

Dan

thanks for the info Dan, if they won't hurt plants and they don't diiminish the growing mix too fast ( i'll start fresh next year) I can try sharing the space and give some fall plants a shot.

I still don't like them! :)

Depends upon the kind of ant, Dan. Fire ants, for example, will feed upon fruits and veggies quite happily. Even before they become overripe. Also, if ants excavate large colonies among the root systems of our plants, considerable damage can occur from the roots being exposed in large pockets of air.

I don't pay much attention to any other kind of ant other than fire ants, UNLESS they've decided to take up permanent housekeeping in my containers. Then, no matter what kind they are, they gotta go.

Since I stopped using peat based potting soil ages ago, I don't have that problem anymore, but it used to be something I experienced annually. It was like my containers were the summer camp of ants.

There are reasons Floridians are plaqued with love bugs twice a year. It's definitely not because I want to kill them. Irrational is far from anaphylaxis.

So, about those scropions: where do you normally vacation down here =D!!!

Shannon

I agree with Dan, ants are not a big problem. They are just there because day time soil tempatures are just right for their eggs to develop.

If they deplete the soil just top dress with fresh. That is a good thing to do anyway.

If you still don't want them there-try plugging drainage holes and set pot in a large tub. Fill pot with water until saturated to the point of standing water. After 20 minutes remove plugs and allow water to drain into tub. Save water to water your plants with-it probably has many good nutrients it that were leached from the 'soil'.

rhizo- i would think my ant farm is of fairly good size. Right down to the egg bearers. therefore, big air pockets. :(

shannon- we're west coasters. around ft.meyers area. We rent cheap,off season. It's a nice place to be. We're birders and love the walk along Tiger Tail preserve. How about you? There's so many places to explore in the state and we've only recently been going down. Please, oh please tell me no to those nasty stinging creatures being there!

Seramas- good thought but these being 18 gallon totes makes it impossable for me to lift, especially soaked.

I think justaguy's plan will work best for me. Unless the sun bakes them enough and the heat chases them out....

Laura, the heat will chase them out, as well as water like I said earlier.

West Coast, no, we don't have any stinging creatures over here =D. Don't be scared, really. If you visit the Ft Myers area, you are not too far from where I live now. I live a wee bit North of Port Charlotte/Punta Gorda area. Most people know where those places are because of Hurricane Charley. Otherwise, I'm equidistant from Tampa and Fort Myers, if you are following the coastline.

You should try to get in touch if you are heading my way. We could discuss things much nicer than pests I'm sure =D.

We have a lot of natural perserves and nature trails right here, walking distance from my home even. There is also a lot of gardens to wade through, from Edison's to Selby Botanical... Cool things like Siesta Key (my favorite beach) and Mote Marine Laboratories. I don't know if you have kids but they would enjoy that too. I know I did :). They have touch tanks, like at Sea World but more personal, and they don't make you pay for the food to feed the creatures... I could go on and on but this probably isn't the place.

Shannon

Shannon- We know the area as we were just there in december. It's beautiful. You're right, we should chat elsewhere. Feel free to drop me an e mail.

Rhizo, the OP description of the ant was not that of fire ant. Second, AFAIK fire ants are not widespread (or perhaps not even extant) in zone 6. My comment was in response to the topic, started by the OP in Z6.

Ants are part of the web of life. The rule of thumb for them is that - for the most part - are part of the web of life that sustains us and are benign. I have ants all over the yard, and the 6 Y.O. understands their function and now enjoys watching them.

Dan

House of bricks eh?

It's also easy to say that ants are part of the web of life, when you live in zone 5 or 6...

Zone 5/6 for me. But visiting down there in Fla. .. Not cool when standing around having a cold one in sandles, when you realize that you or one of your mates stepped in a fire ant 'complex' LoL ... Flying leap into the lake! I'd rather take my chances with the gators!

argh! i've wondered how folks garden with those toe biters in the grass. Even in containers, it's got to be a challange if it's someting you can do at all. At least when I'm chasing a chipmonk, I smile at how cuted the little bugger is.

An easy way to keep ants out of your pots is to gorilla glue fine brass screen over the drain holes. Cut the screen about an inch larger than the hole so you have 1/2 inch overlap on all around the hole. Be sure to moisten the pot side to be glued. Put the glue all around the edge of the screen. Press into place, put a piece of plastic film over the screen and use a weight to hold the screen to the pot over night. The plastic film can be pulled/cut off the screen. If they can't enter from below theyÂll go else where. Be sure to use brass screen for a long term fix.

Gorilla glue will expand to fill gaps-so to prevent filling your drain hole be sure to put the glue as close to the edge of the screen as possible.

thanks for the idea. that will be helpful in the future to keep them out. Right now i have to GET them out :)
I wonder... I was reading Jerry Baker's book and he suggests mint to dispel ants. Anyone ever hear of that?

Is brass screening smaller than insect screen? Fire ants are very tiny (most of them). I've even had larger ants find their way into my hanging pots on my screened in lanai. Nature will find a way...

Fire ants: Sometimes if you are bitten, you can hardly see the ant itself, only the lit match feeling lets you know where they are or were. Disturb a whole 'complex' with socks and shoes on, and I'd also take my chances with the gators and snakes, then if I've still got my legs, I'd have that epi-pen ready to go. (Sorry about the snakes Laura, we've got good and bad ones of those too =D)

Thanks for the tip though seramas
Shannon

Brass screen comes in several sizes--you want extra fine. They will not pass through it.

Using screens in the drain holes will not prevent the ants from getting in OR out. They'll simply climb up the sides and over the top. Just watch their busy foraging activity to witness it.

Truthfully, gang, ants don't normally cause problems. Those of you who live in regions outside of fire ant range, relax! If, however, you notice large colonies in your containers, I'd take action of some kind to discourage them.

I still have a scar on my foot from ~20 years ago when a single fire ant made its way thru much protection and under my sock and shoe while I was landscaping in Dallas...

Nonetheless, I grew up with Jerry Baker and mint is worth a try, but lots of water will drive them away as well. Maybe a nice mint tea and the extra can go in the container if the fear and loathing must overcome coexistence.

Dan

I keep meat tenderizer in my purse just in case I get bit. You make a paste and it supposedly helps disperse the acid, which lessens the reaction.

As far as my yard, I won't take any chances. My 2 year old fortunately hasn't met a fire ant yet. He has gone in the beds and came out scratched from a crown of thorns and some bougies, no crying though. He does have bad reactions to mosquitoes though, hence the bug light. Sorry their worth is not as great as my son's.

To Laura, I gave birth to a beneficial yesterday!!!
I was digging in some dirt and found a lizard egg. I had just put it on my hand to show DH, and he popped right out. It was too cool!!! I put him back where his egg came from, but I still think I can hear him calling me momma =D

Have a good day all
Shannon

mint tea! a fine idea to use some of it up!!

shannon- too sweet!! did you get a photo of the new born??? Happy birthday to it! :)
as to the snake comment- i'm good with 'em. not a problem at all. It's really just ants. I was sleeping and woke up to them crawling around on my face. I had a cold. I was sleeping with my mouth open.... years later it still makes my skin crawl, hence the reason i squirm at them.

Sorry no pics of the little one. DH made me put him back right away. It's the third egg I've found this summer. The first one was unfortunately mistaken for a piece of perlite :( Poor thing.