1) No. Sphagnum peat is the decomposing remains of Sphagnum moss species. Commonly referred to as peat moss or Sphagnum peat moss, it shouldn't be confused with Michigan peat or reed sedge peat. Sphagnum peat moss must have a fiber content greater than 66%, all of which is derived from the genus Sphagnum in order to be called Sphagnum peat. This is the most important type of peat for horticultural use.

Sphagnum moss (what you referred to) is one of a group of mosses that grow in bogs. In horticulture, sphagnum moss refers to the live portion of the plant that is available packaged in whole pieces, dried or fresh. It is often confused with sphagnum peat moss. Sphagnum moss is most often used to line wire hanging baskets and other types of containers and for air-layering. It is not often used as a soil amendment. What you are looking for will be in various sized bales & sold by the cu ft. Ask for Canadian sphagnum peat.

2)Try Earthjuice, one of the seaweed emulsions that have all the minors, or the new liquid fertilizer that's out. It is said to have most of the minor elements. I'm sorry, but I cannot remember the brand name, but I saw it at Lowe's. It was one of the major manufacturers of fertilizers that makes (packages) it.

Al

As usual, thank you so much for your help. Of course it turns out the nursery DID have sphagnum peat when I called back; obviously the person I spoke with when I was there either misunderstood me or was new.

Also sorry for misspelling your handle in my title. ;)

Jeepers - I was soo upset I was nearly beside myself! Didn't sleep a wink Sat night, either. ;o)

Al: You probably answered this question in the long thread about soil moisture. Where can one purchase Pine Bark Fines? When I called a local nursery they had Pine Bark Mulch. Do "Fines" equal "Mulch"? If not, how can one make "Mulch" into "Fines"? What can be substituted for Pine Bark Fines in your potting mix formulation? Thanks.
agmet_al

agmet -

From my limited experience it depends on the mulch. Some mulch is quite large. I struck out the first few garden centers I tried as their pieces were a bit too large, but then found one whose pine bark mulch was quite small. I compared it to the photo of Al's components and it was either the same size or only slightly larger.

Of course you can't see what's inside the bag, but I was lucky in that the garden center had used a bunch of their pine mulch on some of the displays up front. I believe Al had posted it should be 1/4" to 3/8", and I also had his photo with me to compare sizes. So I could see quite clearly that this particular mulch would be ok.

Al, if I've got the measurements wrong for the particle size, please correct me! And thanks again for being such a kind and gracious font of information.

M

What you are looking for: Pine bark in small pieces that is already partially composted. If it's not partially composted, it will not work as well. If you can only find large bark, you can run it through a chipper shredder to make it finer. If the product was uncomposted, it would be best to toss a few bags on a pile over winter to get a start on the composting process.

It's not like you guys can't grow stuff in a commercial mix. Folks have been doing it for years. ;o) You could add some pine bark & perlite to most potting soils & come up with a pretty good soil - just so it drains well. The one I use is just one I've refined over the last few years & has proven to work better than any soil I've used yet, & it retains it's structure exceptionally well.

I'm interested in learning more about coir as a peat substitute, or if it's available in chunky instead of smooth, as a substitute for bark, too. I just read a write-up in Fine Gardening that was pretty high on it. Word is that it is closer to neutral pH & has some other interesting properties as well. If I stumble on some. I'll try it on a few plants that I grow every year (so I get a good basis for comparison) & let you know how it works. Maybe even some one is already using it & can give an opinion?

If anyone wants a picture of the bark, send an e-mail & I'll return a photo. For some reason I can't send photos through GW mail.

Al ... gettin' ready to go out & deadhead. ;o)

I was a total non-gardener until this year. But finding this website has really turned me into a gardening addict LOL! Al got me started making my own potting mix and I love it. It really isnt that difficult. I encourage anyone to try it. If I can do it, anyone can! The hardest thing for me was to find the pine bark in the right size (and finding room to store all of the components!). Home Depot has something called Scottsman soil conditioner, and landscapers mix. The pieces look about the right size. I dont know what the difference is between the soil conditioner and landscapers mix. They look about the same to me. Unfortunately, the bags are much to big for me to use. I have limited space on my balcony (plus I have to carry everything up 3 flights of stairs) so I havent tried it. And it does look like it is partially composted. I keep hoping someone will try it and let us know how it works. I have all of my perrenials in Als mix and they drain almost instantly. In fact, I tended to underwater at first and my herbs got a slow start, but once I got the feel for how often to water everything just took off!

Al, its funny you mention coir just now. I have been so busy playing with my plants and fixing up my balcony, I havent been posting much. (but I check the posts pretty regularly) I was given a sample of cocopeat (coir) recently and I repotted one of my mints in it. So far so good, but it has only been 2 weeks. I will keep you posted if you want (although I am using it in a self watering container and I know how you feel about that LOL!). But I want you to know, that once a week, I take off the bottom tray, drain the water and let it dry out for a day. Then I put the tray back on and refill it. So far, it has worked well for my mint. It is growing like crazy and the roots are starting to poke out of the bottom grid.

I will be getting some coconut husk chips this weekend. A lot of people in the citrus forum use them and I eventually want to try them on my thai lime tree. But I am gonna try them out first on something more expendable! They are supposed to drain beautifully, and hold up even longer than pine bark. I got some more cocopeat and I am gonna try your mix using the cocopeat and the chips instead of peat and pine bark. We will see how it works out!

Lydia

LYDIA! You don't have to explain anything to me about what you grow in! ;o) I'm just glad to hear from you & to learn your "gardening on the balcony" adventure is keeping you busy (and pleased). Your enthusiasm still shines, too.

Take good care.

Al

I used a mix of good commercial potting soil, composted cotton burrs and coconut coir to stick my winter rose cuttings in this past winter. I believe they are doing much better than the year before. Straight potting soil stays too wet in winter rains and snows, even though the drain holes are in contact with the soil (buried to the rim in garden)....I thought it would wick the excess moisture away better than it did. I really don't think it spent much time frozen because of the heavy mulch I heaped around them.

By the way, I think a good place to find composted pine bark would be a Landscaper. I found it here in backwoods Podunk, MO with no problem. We have a combination greenhouse operator/Landscaper who reccomends it for soil ammendment here. He says that peat is all wrong for our soils because it dries at the same rate as the soil, so you end up with dried out peat and more trouble than you already had. The pine bark helps prevent soil locking... leaves air pockets, and I suspect slows down wicking to the surface and evaporation.

I helped on a public project this year, 27 tubs 6 ft round by 40" tall, plus over a dozen smaller tubs. They had soil and small trees planted in them, been there about 10 years probably. We wanted to put flowers in them. We used a soilless mix. We think this was a HUGE MIXTAKE, as we had to water at least twice weekly, and there are few water outlets on Main Street. The tubs were always dry. We added about a cup of Osmocote to each tub, and probably 2 cups water-retention crystals. Does anyone have any ideas for us for next year? We are thinking of mulching, also, but not sure what kind to use. Thanks in advance for any help.

The city I live in has a program where volunteers plant pots and baskets for the downtown area. Watering is always an issue as they only way to do it is to beg the city water dept for one of their water trucks to take along and water from it.

They use loam based (as opposed to peat based) mixes and add compost (city provides it for free). Pots are mulched with wood chips. Moss would look nicer (I think), but the wood chips are free. Bottom line in such conditions is think about what will hold moisture the best and don't worry as much about drainage (within reason). The faster it drains, the faster it dries.(even though a few will disagree with that statement).

Depending on your circumstances you might be able to do someting similar to what is done here. When the pots are placed on main street the businesses are asked if they are able/willing to contribute to their maintenance. While their help can't be relied upon, to the extent that they water it helps.

The larger the container, the more growing plants in it is like growing in the earth. You can get by with denser soils when container size starts moving north of 10 gallons. If I remember my conversions correctly, your containers should hold some 700 gallons if full. That's just short of 100 cu. ft. or 3-1/2 cu. yds. - in any case, a lot of soil.

My first question: Did you remove the trees or add soil to the existing level? This is an important question if you wish the trees to remain healthy.

Second question: Is the entire container a soilless mix, or just the upper portion? Composed of what? Guess at ratios?

I have some thoughts, but would prefer to learn the particulars before commenting.

Al