Dear all, I have spent the last two days reading this forum. It's addictive. I am very excited. Even when I not reading, my mind keep thinking about soil mix all the time. Last year, I bought a mango tree and emperor lychee. However, they didn't do very well since I put them in the containers. After reading Al's posts, I believed I don't have the right soil mix for them. According to Al's and many people in this forum, Al's Gritty Mix is great for Tropical Fruit. Unfortunately, after spending a day today shopping for the ingredients, I realized that it is hard to find Screened Turface and Gran-I-Grit in my area. Therefore, making Al's Gritty Mix will be a challenge for me. However, I found fine Pine Bark, sphagnum peat, perlite, garden lime, which are the right ingredients to make Al's 5:1:1 mix. My question is: Can I use Al's 5:1:1 for my Mango Tree and Lychee? Please share if you have any experience growing tropical fruit tree with Al's 5:1:1 mix. Thank you very much. Anthan

I think the most important point we can take from what Mike just said comes full circle to something I so frequently offer in conversations about getting off on the right container gardening foot. The concept illustrated by the three sentences that open the article I wrote about soils a few years ago are what made the difference for Mike. I never try to coax growers into using this or that soil mix; rather, I try to instill the idea embodied in the opening: "As container gardeners, our first priority should be to insure the soils we use are adequately aerated for the life of the planting, or in the case of perennial material (trees, shrubs, garden perennials), from repot to repot. *Soil aeration/drainage is the most important consideration in any container planting. Soils are the foundation that all container plantings are built on, and aeration is the very cornerstone of that foundation." If you always keep aeration and durability in the back of your mind as you build your plantings, and take steps to ensure those properties are part of the plan, growing can be much easier while you enjoy a much wider margin of error. Al *While I recognize that there are a plethora of very important factors, and a case can be made for other factors (water, light, temperature, nutrition .....), I've taken some latitude in making the statement because these other factors are easily changed or adjusted, while soil aeration is not.

Somewhere around 20 years ago, I was at a business meeting in Chicago. I had arrived Thu night for Fri-Sat meetings and was bored, so wandered around the hotel. I soon discovered that there was also a bonsai convention being set up, which was to begin on Fri. I was amazed at the beauty of the little trees, so asked if I could observe. Permission was granted with the proviso I stay out of the way. I decided that day that I had to learn how to grow those wonderful little trees. I came home and soon stumbled on an adult education flier that offered a 1 day bonsai workshop. I paid my fee & soon had a little garden juniper, perfectly ripe for the killing. I stumbled around in total darkness for that entire summer before realizing I knew nothing about soils or keeping plants alive in containers, but that knowledge was prerequisite, so I set the plants aside and hit the books. I studied bonsai techniques and the art itself, but mostly I concentrated on physiology and soil science. After 4-5 years of what I think was pretty diligent studying, I had learned enough about plants and soils that, to my great happiness, I was able to keep plants alive and healthy in containers. I was using 'bonsai' soil that was commercially made, and little better than other heavy 'from-the-bag' soils that were available. About the only thing that set it apart was it's gritty mineral components. I discovered and joined a local club, and primarily through my bonsai magazines, gradually became exposed to a wide variety of potential soil ingredients. As I continued to study and gain a better understanding of how soils work and how various combinations of ingredients affected the end product, I started experimenting with various combinations of ingredients. I learned early on that soils intended to hold plant material for extended periods needed to be very durable. I was still operating under the illusion that container soils had to be nearly all organic or they wouldn't work. I soon discovered that was nowhere near true. It was a combination of trial and error, reading what others were doing, and experimenting, using what I had learned about soil science that helped me up with the idea of combining an ingredient that was large enough that it held very little perched water but still held plenty of water in internal pores (screened Turface) with an ingredient on the opposite end of the spectrum - granite, which holds no water internally - only on its surface. The bark, though it offers some nutrition as it slowly breaks down was an excellent compliment to the other two ingredients because it offered a filler that held about the same volume of water as the average between the Turface and granite, and because it was plentiful and cheap; plus, it fit the durability requirement better than any other commonly found organic component, as long as I limited the organic fraction (bark) to 1/3 of the whole or less. Each of the ingredients in the gritty mix is actually carefully chosen. Particle size, the ability to hold/not hold water, expense, availability (for me) were all carefully considered as I settled on the ingredients and ratio. I've been using the gritty mix for about 15 years, and haven't found a way to improve it yet. With the number of people I stay in contact with in the bonsai community, it's easy to imagine there were a lot of materials that could have been substituted for one of the 3 primary ingredients or added to the trio. Many were tried, then discounted, and I still prefer the equal parts of fir bark:Turface:grit to anything else. I guess to answer your question directly, about how long it took me to come up with the gritty mix, I'd say it was about 5 years before it came together, but I was still learning a lot in the first 4 years. As far as the gritty mix being perfect, it may not be, for everyone; but the nice thing about it is it's flexible/adjustable for different locales and plant material by simply changing the ratio of Turface:grit slightly. The same is basically true of the 5:1:1 mix - it's flexible. My interest in bonsai also sparked a keen interest in growing a wide variety of other plant material in containers. Since I recognized the difficulty presented by the high level of water retention in almost all from-the-bag soils, and I had already witnessed the superb results from the highly aerated gritty mix, not to mention the fact that the gritty mix is more expensive than bagged soils, it wasn't long before I was tinkering with pine bark, peat, and perlite. I saw that nurseries were growing woody material in mixes with pine bark, so I should be able to grow my veggies and pretty/flowery stuff in some sort of concoction with pine bark as the primary ingredient. Having already settled on the gritty mix, I knew just what I wanted to achieve with the 5:1:1 mix, so that was easy. A few years after I started using the 5:1:1 mix, I started sharing how well it works here. You might not believe me when I tell you that JaG was one of the loudest dissenters, and couldn't imagine how soils with that much air could possibly be better than from-the-bag soils. He'll tell you that himself, and mentions it frequently. (I miss his being around). It took a couple of years of often very strong debate before he tried it and saw there really was a stark difference in results between a highly aerated soils vs those heavier and water retentive. Now he's a strong proponent of highly aerated soils. I was actually afraid to tell the forum about the gritty mix, because it was such a radical departure from what everyone on this forum was used to growing in that not one person would ever have believed you could grow in a soil that was 2/3 gravel and 1/3 large bark chunks. Honestly - I had to wait until I had earned enough credibility before I could even tell you that I grow lots of perfectly healthy plants in the stuff. It's much easier to open minds when there is more than a singular voice crying in the wilderness. ;o) Let's see ...... what drew me here? I think it was originally because I was doing a LOT of searching for info on the internet and GW kept coming up. After a few hundred GW hits, I guess I started to explore and ended up joining. The bonsai forum wasn't much fun because there was (still is) constant fighting, so I ended up here. I had also joined several clubs, and had often been invited to talk about different aspects of gardening. I talk most often about soils and things related to container gardening, but I also do presentations about pruning and hormones, propagation, repotting ..... I do bonsai demos and lead various workshops, too. I look at all of that as a natural extension of my love for growing/nurturing plants, so I guess it's not so unusual that you have to put up with me here. Whew! That took a lot longer than I thought it would. It was a really, really hectic weekend, so it's time for bed. Thanks for your interest, Mike - if you're still awake. ;-) TTYL Al

In response to DaMonkey "what's best for the plant, not the grower" idea, I have learned that it is NOT best for all plants to require watering more than once a day. There is a level of moisture/nutrient retention that will give you optimal growth of the plant. If the mix dries out faster than that, you won't get better growth even if you water 3X a day. The gas exchange turnover is less beneficial than greater absorption of water/nutrients. To the OP, I've had a similar problem but with the gritty mix drying out far too fast for some of the plants I was trying to grow in my climate (roses, citrus, mandevilla). For these plants in MY climate, moisture retention is an advantage, not a disadvantage. I have a rose in a pot of "retentive" bagged potting mix with 30 big gorgeous blooms on it right now, while a more vigorous rose (when I bought it) in gritty mix is growing poorly and has only produced 3 or 4 blooms, when during spring flush it should be more than 30 (and was more than 30 when it came in its growers pot!). Don't hesitate to use a "retentive" mix if that's what your plants, climate, and watering habits would do best with. You might also consider setting up a drip irrigation system. I have one set up just for the pots on my relatively small deck, and I so love not having to water manually. There is good info on irrigationdirect.com on designing a system. Actually, I set mine up so I could go on vacation in hot July or August without my plants all dying (and no one, no matter how good a friend, wants to come water all those plants every day, let alone twice a day!). But I was surprised to get home from vacation and see my drip-irrigated plants doing better than when I watered them manually. I'm using RainDrip components, but my impression is that they are all pretty standard (1/2" mainline, 1/4" tubing, plugs, various style emitters, etc). I have not tried any of the fertilizer dispensers to add to the automated system. However, there are growers on gardenweb that have set up auto-fertilizer-dispenser with their drip systems, so you might want to search for info if you'd rather go that route. I plan to try Osmocote Plus (24-8-16 with complete nutrients) in conjunction with my drip system this summer, rather than manual fertigation, which is work I'd rather not do. My main problem so far is that I can't find Osmocote Plus in stores (just the regular NPK-only Osmocote).