Interesting Stuff...thanks for the responses Here is what I am facing (in Western Oregon) Yesterday... LOW 29 HIGH 45 OK, to me neither the soil temp or the air temp would be conducive to plant growth...even a cool weather crop, such as peas. Under these conditions, it was not raining but the sun didn't appear until late afternoon so things never warmed up. I have been gardening for (only) six years so my experience is limited, but my observation is that peas planted at this time do not germinate well...therefore I went to starting them in cell trays. They are my unheated greenhouse now and are growing some there. I would say yesterday's range in there was (like) 34 to 65. I don't want to go to "analysis paralysis" ...but there might be a useful quantitative number that I might use...any other thoughts welcomed

From digdirt.... "Now if growing in a greenhouse, yes that info is available because gh growers can control the air temps inside the structure."........... Yea I was thinking about ways to have an ideal air temp when growing indoors and in a greenhouse from sprout to transplanting time to see if they grow healthier and better before transplant time....I currently have lists of a general idea of the height in the greenhouse to put the plants ....low to the ground for cold and higher up for hot. Thank you for the response digdirt and now thanks to you I am looking up soil temp control :). To Slimy_Okra...thanks for the temps! Thanks theforgottenone for this message... "Unless you're able to manipulate the temperature of the air and keep it consistent at all times there is really no reason to aim for an "ideal" anything. It's just not possible. Especially outside. Even day and night temperatures can fluctuate 20 or more degrees. So what's "ideal" during the day won't be "ideal" at night. You can influence air temps to an extent by growing under cover when it's chilly and by using shade cloth when it's warm (somewhat) but for the most part you're at the mercy of Mother Nature. As long as a crop is withing the range of low temp and high temp they will grow just fine."... I sort of have a response to this....My greenhouse has about 7 to 8 different heights and I am trying to order my plants by temperature. .I was thinking about your response and I think the reason why I am looking for an ideal temp is because I am thinking about having the veggies at the correct height in order to have an ideal temp when the sun is out in the day. I was thinking this would maximize growing. Also for the nighttime thing I have a clear water aquirium and a ton of clear used milk bottles and soda bottles on the upper part of the green house where it gets above 100F...then at night when the heat stored in the water dissipates I have a minifan that blows the dissipated air down a vent into bricks on the floor of the greenhouse which keeps the temperatures much higher at the night. I am going to try a ton of science experiments...just don't know what they are yet :) I guess right now if nothing else then I would like a confirmation that the order am putting the veggies in from to coldest to hottest loving plants is accurate (or close to accurate) Here is the order again(and also on my flag cold-to-hot measurement picture).... Coldest …. 1. Kale(pretty sure kale is one of the coldest if not the coldest)....I have this as a starting point in the center of the blue cross in the hot red Norwegian flag.......then it goes to the all blue, cold Greek flag starting with Spinach 2. Spinach(yellow and orange “Green Hornet” symbol...yellow and orange due to spinach goes well with high acidity tropical fruits in green smoothies...Green Hornet symbol is a double K...meaning high vitamin K content....which leafy greens have) 3. Leeks....I know that Leeks are very cold hardy but I am not sure if I should put leeks at the number 3 cold since leeks seem to have a large temperature range and the ideal soil and air temp may put leeks higher on this list....maybe somewhere from 4 to 6...idk(green and blue heart symbol.....heart for the allium family...as garlic is heart and soul of culinary science....I don't know if I got this right but for some reason I associated leeks with high water content and that's why I have the green and blue....do growing leeks like a lot of water?) 4. Turnip....Another large temperature range yet cold hardy veggie so I am not sure if number 4 would be the best place for Turnips( V for brassica family...V shape cause Kale is a brassica and has rigid V like edges(except for dinosaur kale).....symbol is red and white because Turnips are white and purplish-red) 5. Radish....From what I have researched I think radish has the largest temperature range yet..(Half of a triangle for taproots....red symbol due to the color of the radish....) 6. Head Lettuce(I have buttercrunch)...from what I have research this veggie seems to be the logical next one in order (single K for less vitemin K content but still a leafy green....yellow and green color....yellow for the color of butter) 7. Swiss Chard....next one in line I think?....(Double “green arrow” K...red and white..the color of the swiss flag) 8. Arugula....I really don't know about arugula haven't found much temp info on arugula....(single K for less vit K....black and green....black for pepper since arugula has a peppery flavor to it) 9. Romaine Lettuce....number 9 maybe? ….(single K for less vit K....red and yellow...the color of the Roman flag) 10. Parsley....or Peas or Broccoli or Brussel Sprouts idk...haven't done much herb temperature research yet...(H for low temp herbs....orange and green color...orange because I use parsley on my orange salmon recipe) 11. Cilantro...or Peas or Broccoli or Brussel Sprouts idk..haven't done much herb temperature research yet...(H for low temp herbs...white and red...the color of salsa! Which cilantro is good in) 12. Broccoli...or Brussel Sprouts or Peas?...(V for Brassicas....yellow and green symbol..reason: When brocolli flowers, it's yellow) 13. Brussel Sprouts? (V for Brassicas....yellow and blue symbol..reason: the flag color of Brussels city is yellow and blue) 14. Peas?....(half moon for peas.....half moon all green...cause it looks like a fricken pea...look at the sunglasses) 15. Dill?....put this next since dill is a large temperature range herb....(double H for warm and hot temperature herbs....green and white....the color of pickles + the color of most pickle lids(white)) 16. Basil...next just because I have no idea the order basill should be in...(single H...red and green...red due to basil being a good pizza sauce addition.) 17. Thyme...next just because I have no idea the order basill should be in...(single H...black and white...image of a black hole which has TIME altering properties) 18. Oregano....warmer weather herb....double H for warm and hot temperature herbs...red and green: red because oregano is a good pizza sauce addition) 19. Tomato.....(Circle symbol for fruits- red filled in circle with with white background looks like a slicing tomato)) 20. Cherry Tomato....(Circle symbol for fruits �" purple and red circular symbol...Purple is the color of the stem of a cherry tomato 21. cucumber?.........or beans?...not sure which one requires hotter avg. temps(double Circle symbol for elongated fruits....double circle with Green outer shell + white inner shell representative of colors of cucumber.) 22. beans? Or cucumber...not sure which one requires hotter avg. temps(Crescent moon for beans, nuts,a nd seeds....Green with white background looks like a bean) 23. Peppers(Bell, then jalapeno, then serrano, then cayenne, then habenero)(X, XX, XXX symbols representation for peppers...green single X for bell pepper(color of bell pepper)...green double X for jalapaneo(color of jalapeno)...and so on) 24. Okra?....or melons?....not sure which one...according to slimy okra...this should be last..but other sources have some melons that require hotter temps than Okra(green star for color and shape of Okra)... 25. Canteloupe.....or Okra... according to slimy okra...this should be 2nd to last (Circle symbol for fruits...white inner shell + orange outer shell looks like cantelope) 26. Watermelon.....(circle symbol for fruits........ green outer shell + red inner shell looks like water melon) ???....Cauliflower....not in there yet...but I think it would somewhere between 13- brussel sprouts and 19.. cherry tomatoes) Well thanks for all the advice and help everyone and if you have any temp or order info...or any other info...message back!!

I guess I can't expect Mother Nature to be so understandable and cut and dry, but this stuff really is confusing! Depending on where I'm looking, I've found my zone listed from 5b to 7a... but it's most commonly listed as 5b and 6a, so that's what I've been telling myself. But I think I'm correct on the frost date now, though I was shocked by how early it is as well! I had found May 10 at first (which is closer to what you're saying, Lacey) and based all of my starting dates on that. Then, our local newspaper had an article in the gardening section proclaiming their excitement for April 24 being the last frost date! I did a search and found a freeze/frost date table put out by NOAA which confirms that April 24 is the date where there is a 10% chance it will get below 32. The 50% date was April 10! No wonder I got started late...

First for those who have offered their suggestions input and advice and taking time to post on this thread and help me, thank you. I very much appreciate it and you have my gratitude. People have told me numerous things regarding what does transplant well. However I do have some questions still because I'm a little unclear on some stuff that has been said regarding transplanting. According to what some have said most of the time anything that is leafy and green (any kind of lettuce, spinach, and collards) is normally direct sown. However are the reasons that these crops are normally direct sown is because they don't make good candidates for seedling transplantation, or are they able to be started from seed ahead of time indoors and will they transplant well? Is it recommended that they're direct sown (as with root veggies) because they just don't transplant well or can you do either or with leafy green stuff (start them as seedling transplants indoors and then transplant them outdoors or is it recommended you direct sow them where they're to grow). Another question I have is that people have strongly recommended that I plant scallions, onions, and chives indoors then transplant them outdoors. However I thought as a rule-of-thumb that root veggies are to be direct sown because they don't transplant well. Are members of the onion family (chives, onion, and scallions) considered root vegetables? Another thing I have a question about is people who have responded to this thread said they normally direct sow peas. Is this because peas don't transplant well or does it make any difference whether or not they're direct sown or can they be started in peat pots indoors and the seedling transplants transplanted at outdoors at a later date? Also what is a root ball? I know that the root systems of seedlings that are started indoors have to be well developed before they're transplanted or when you go to transplant your seedling transplants they will just die. Justaguy2 something I don't understand is that you told me the secret to successful transplantation is starting seedlings quickly and having them transplanted 2-3 weeks after germination. What I don't understand is wouldn't that be transplanting the seedlings too soon? I don't really know anything about seedling transplanting but what I do know is that if the root systems of the plants you're transplanting aren't sufficiently developed when you go to transplant you're seedling transplants they will not transplant well at all. The other questions I have that people failed to answer that I asked are these: *I'd like to use the method of emulating a breeze for the seedlings via using a fan. When should I introduce this to the seedlings (how old should they be)? How many times a day should I use the fan to emulate a breeze for the seedlings and what is the length of time I should keep the fan on when I do this for the seedlings? The reason I'd like to do this is because it will overall make the seedlings stronger. I know that with seedlings when you transplant seedling transplants you are supposed to follow certain guidelines with temperature, time of day, and weather conditions. What are as a rule of thumb, these guidelines? When during the day should you transplant them? Morning? Afternoon? Evening? What should the weather be like? Also this is going to seem like a very dumb question but how do you carefully transplant seedlings well? I've never done seedling transplants so I don't know how to carefully transplant a seedling. I could use advice with this.