In theory the gritty mix will hold less water than the 5-1-1 mix, but as you are finding out both hold more water than you may have thought when getting started with them. This was a major shocker to me.

I am not a citrus expert and certainly my experiences with citrus in Wisconsin is going to be quite different than yours in Florida.

Nevertheless when I started with citrus I put them in 50% pine bark fines and 50% unscreened turface and almost immediately regretted it. It wasn't that the plants didn't grow, it was that even in the hottest/driest part of summer here there was no reason to water more often than once per week -MAX.

Subsequently I have put all new citrus into the gritty mix and granted these are small trees, but even the gritty mix at this time of year in Wisc I am not watering more than once per week.

I have found citrus quite fun and frankly challenging. Not challenging in the sense that they die, but leaf chlorosis, leaf drop, leaf roll etc. have all been experienced. Very finicky. One tree in the same container and mix will choose to drop some leaves and the other doesn't. LOL Fun stuff.

Anyway, let me stop rambling.

You kind of have to go by your own experiences here. I am sure you understand the value of a stable, well aerated potting mix at this point. Now you just need to tweak for the climate, individual plant and your personal preferences.

If the gritty mix is staying wet longer than you would like then if you haven't screened the turface with a window screen, do that. If that isn't enough, reduce the amount while increasing the granite. Or omit it altogether if that works best for you.

There is no wrong answer really. As long as the mix starts out with a large enough particle size to drain freely and the ingredients don't structurally collapse before you are ready to repot, it's all good.

JaG is right. There's nothing carved in stone that says you need to adhere to the recipe I provided. In MI, I can use the equal parts recipe in almost all containers, deep or shallow, but the recipe is SUPPOSED to be adjustable. Screening the Turface does make a big difference, though. I just had a loong conversation with a hobby citrus grower this afternoon that was having trouble with unestablished citrus plantings holding too much water. She was using almost all Turface & a little composted redwood bark.

You can decrease water retention by either increasing particle size (which includes screening the Turface and bark) or by increasing the volume of soil ingredients that have little or no internal porosity.

Two things you can try that are very effective: Insert a wick & allow it to dangle below the containers, or tilt the containers at as steep an angle as you're comfortable with during periods of rain.

Keep in mind that the gritty mix holds less water (on a per volume basis) than bagged soils or the 5:1:1 mix, AND when it's saturated, it still holds more air than either of the other two soils mentioned, so even though you need to work out some difficulties, you're still much closer to where you need to be, and the solution(s) easier, than if you were using a peat/bark/perlite soil.

Al

Thanks guys. Given that I've stressed these plants twice now I'll probably just leave them in the 5:1:1 and start anew with a few more plants in a revised gritty mix. My fines were the right size so that wasn't an issue but I was using Allsport as I can't get Turface, and I know you said there is no real difference, but I'd swear that much of the clay particles in the bag of Allsport I have are smaller than grower grit, more like starter, so that could be some of the problem if I'm not going crazy. Again, thanks for your help.

Tom

BTW, I was only watering once a week, but now it will be fairly common to have a 30 minute downpour at least three times a week....

Tom

Last summer it rained almost everyday in July and half of August...Not just rain, but a cool one at that, because I live near the eastern seaboard all the way up here in Mass. I had citrus, plumeria, and gardenias, most hated wet and easily root rot prone plants you can grow, and yet they all did marvelous here.
This year same thing, same plants plus more. It has been raining for days, no sun, along with temps in the lousy 50's, some 25 degrees below normal for here, and I have not had to worry again.
This is a great and secure feeling I tell you.
That is because they are all in the gritty mix made with screened turface, and just a little more granite than usual in some. The only thing those plant roots do is sit or grow in moist soiless mix, not wet, you know the sopping wet mix that can easley kills them.
As for the ones in the 5.1.1 mix, not even a problem with rot on those too. I think I might of put a little less peat, and more perlite and bark for those.

This of course suits me for my very damp,sometimes cool, sunless summers here.

Until I was able to change a couple I thought were holding to much water, I tilted them as Al said to do, so the rain would keep wetting them, or move them to cover until the rains stop.

Beleive me, if you just tweek your mix to be suitable for your area, you will be able to have rain water everyday while they are outside,along with you hosing or watering too....:-)

I thank the same two you addressed in your thread for everything! I had the same problem as you in the beginning until I did what they are recommending..:-)
I definately would of lost my plumies, which HATE wet feet, if it hadn't been for the help here! You should see how good their doing even in cold rain everyday..

Let us know what you do..ok. Good luck

Yes the gritty mix does hold more water than what you might think.

Last year I had to repot a small tree growing in gritty mix (an animal knocked over the container). I found that the top couple of inches of the gritty mix to be quite dry to the touch but near the bottom of the container the mix of bark, granite and Turface was quite damp but not soaking wet, perfect for deep root colonization.

So even though it might seem that the gritty mix dries out fast there's probably enough moisture near the bottom of the container for most plants.

I have a very small pine seedling growing in a aquatic plant basket, basically a small container with mesh sides, filled with grit mix and even that container, with hundreds of air holes in the side, remains quite damp near the bottom of the container.

If the grit mix holds too much water for your particular plant you reduce the amount of Turface and add more granite, making a soil that retains less moisture. if you need more water retention, add more Turface and cut back on granite.

I understand that different people and plants have different needs but I have a basic question-
Do you guys think that gritty mix, even unscreened, can hold too much water (for any but the most finicky of plants)?
Granted, with my experiments of differing gritty mixtures, I did get up to 1 inch of perched water in some. But, with pots at least 6 inches in height I would not have thought that 1 inch of water, even long term with daily watering/rain, would be that big of a deal.

Kyle

My experience here in hot arid Fresno has been somewhat the opposite. We've had little rain since I've bare rooted six (so far) new citrus, each during spring flush, into 15" containers with gritty mix. I have different trees in different soil (Turface, Napa Absorb, Playball, Axis) but they seem to behave the same. All were dust screened and I even sifted turface into two sizes (large+small) so I could vary a mix if needed even beyond varying the granite.

Instead of using an equal Granite part, I removed 20% of granite and replaced it with Turface. A .8:1.2:1 instead of 1:1:1 so it would hold MORE water. My granite is a tad smaller than gran-i-grit in theory drains a bit less.

I found it VERY helpful to do basic testing before I put the citrus in the mix. Most importantly, I used the containers I was to grow in, filled them with the mix, and simulated a watering. Then scooped one out after one day, another after two days, etc. to see the moisture levels. Later I varied it while in direct sunlight vs. shade and with significant daily "overwatering" ie. rain. For kicks, I put the mix in a bucket without holes and after about a week it became smelly rotten just like anything else would.

MY SOLUTION
I'm putting an extra layer of sifted bark fines to use as a mulch. Not too much, just one solid layer so the mix isn't visible anymore. Then I sprinkle a bit more turface on top and a thick ring near the outside edge to help keep slimy kritters out. This significantly improves the moisture consistency between the shallow vs. deep layers of the mix -- although it is still clearly different.

Here in Fresno with very low humidity, when temps run in the mid 90's it needs water every day+half. When temps are in the low 80's it makes it two+half days. I can push it by adding one more day to each, knowing the bottom portion of the container is still somewhat moist.

I have a similar experience with the above posters because of the *obvious* difference in moisture levels with the gritty mix the deeper you go. The top 2" or so would completely dry out-- so dry that dust would fly off in a breeze and it reverts back to it's original dry coloring. Yet the bottom portion would still be moist.

However, where my experience differs is I require water nearly every day. I was initially shocked because without the mulch layer, when the temp hit 100 degrees, my 15" test pot was almost completely dry half-way down after 24 hours.

I still keep one "baseline" container full of mix and water it just like I do the citrus, just in case I need to see exactly what the moisture is like or if I want to test adding more/less of a component.

That's interesting reading, Cebury. I'm glad you posted. Would you elaborate just a little on the last thing you said, about the 'baseline' container? Specifically, I'm wondering if you're comparing moisture levels in a container of soil w/o plant material to one with plants.

Al

>>> if you're comparing moisture levels in a container of soil w/o plant material to one with plants.

Yeah I am. I know the containers with trees should be "drinking", but that container gives me a "baseline" of moisture. If I'm trying not to over-water, I can look inside that container and know the other trees are at-most that moist; it helps to verify the wooden skewer/kabob. Sometimes that skewer feels like it's tearing roots, so I'm hoping someday to avoid using it at all except when the weather changes.

My watering requirements are not accurate since the trees are still on the East side of my house, getting about 6 hours of direct morning sun. (Didn't want to stress them after bare-root and I'm leaving on vacation soon so I didn't want to switch 'em back-and-forth.) Once I return them back to the south side micro-climate (about 15 degrees hotter), I'm expecting they need water every 24 hours or sooner during our peak summer.

Am I the only one experiencing this?