One comment on manure from farm animals. Recent research suggests that kids that grow up around farm animals are much less likely to develop allergies than other kids. The theory is that the constant exposure to relatively harmless bacteria causes the immune system to focus on infective substances rather than on harmless materials such as molds and pollens, etc. I know of no studies that show that exposure to animals and manures (certainly plenty fresh on the farm) causes an increase in the infection rate of children (or adults). If you have worked on a farm, you know that you don't wear gloves all the time to protect yourself from the bacteria. It is to protect the hands from injuries. Agreed that exposure to e coli and other organisms that one has not developed a resistance to or a tolerance of can produce significant disease in an individual whose immune system has not be "hyped" up by continuous exposure to bacteria and other organisms. It is also highly likely that that individual has allergy problems. In the military (the same things happens when one travels), people coming for training from other countries tend to pick up significant GI problems from exposure to the local e coli and other bacteria. If you go to their country for long, you will probably experience the same thing. Again, in general, to contact an infective agent, usually a certain "load" is required to cause infection unless a person is severely immunocompromised. An example is typhoid where a healthy individual will need to consume in excess of 4000 typhoid bacteria at one time to contact the disease. Washing lettuce will reduce but not remove all bacteria. But it is not usually necessary (or possible) to remove all the bacteria (unless you cook it to 160 degrees for 20 minutes or boil it, etc). Our bodies have over many thousands of years developed amazing ability to tolerate our environment. It is reasonable to disagree on this. I'll have to admit I have eaten all kinds of things out in the garden (usually wiping off the obvious dirt first), and have not noticed and ill effect. But then my body has undoubtedly has developed a level of immunity to the organism in my garden. A level of respect for the danger of eating possibly contaminate food materials is certainly warranted. For me, fish pond water would not concern if it had been applied early in the production of the crops. Just an opinion.

Thanks Jason and Sandy :-) Ouch Sandy! I have limited experiece with lava rock, but I can imagine the discomfort. I think experimenting is great fun-- you never know: one day you might be the one to discover the perfect pond setup that nobody else thought of! Sorry I don't have much of a philosophy on ponds, Jason. I too just keep experimenting and hoping all goes well. Of course, reading the wealth of knowledge on this forum doesn't hurt either. :-) What you can't see in the photos is that our pump won't prime when hooked up to the skimmer,so right now there's a big black intake hose sitting on the pond bottom with a strainer designed for a sump pump attached to the end. Real beautiful. When I complained, my DH's only comment was "Well, there's the bottom drain you always wanted!" I probably should add the statistics of our pond to the bog page, but the size is roughly 15x30' x3.5'deep, the bog is a little less than 1/3 that size and about 2' deep. David or anyone else that migth still be interested-- here is a link that was helpful when we started researching bog/veggie filters. If nothing else, it has a great list of plant to try in and around ponds & bogs. Sherry Here is a link that might be useful: Nelson Water Gardens -Bog Filter Construction.pdf

Hi Jason, Great questions. I believe that with a minimal fish load and lots of plants and water movement, clear water is certainly possible. Be prepared to deal with a spring algae bloom - easy to do with a pre filter of quilt batting or batting the water from your weir can flow thru. I change it as needed thru the algae bloom and then don't need it for the rest of the summer. You'll also need to have a plan for the goldfish offspring. With all that anacharis they will have lots of places to hide and goldfish reproduce at an amazing rate. (I had 3 goldies I thought were too young produce 28 babies in 3 months) The fry will need to be removed to prevent overloading your pond. I feed my fish sparingly, just when I want to see them. It helps keep the excess nutrients (uneaten food) down, and mine certainly have lots of other stuff to eat. My ponds are small (300 and 250 gallons) compared to yours. This is just my experience, I'm sure others will chime in to give you better answers! Happy ponding! S

This thread posted by TPN60 needs much more of a answer than can be written here, it is a complex question that needs detailed answers and I agree you need to get help in your area. I am very informed on this subject, and you can certainly covert your pond to a bog. It will be expensive and the first thing you must realize is that drainage holes must be provided in the bottom or lower sides. You cannot have standing water at the bottom of the peat you will use. If you do you will have problems with many fungal disease and plant death as the roots drown. The stagnat water in the bottom not being able to drain will sour and even the best water will push minerals up towards the top slowly posioning the bog peat and plants. Drainage is a requirement. Growing plants will use water, the roots of true bog plants will suck large amounts of water in the high heat of summer or in the spring when in active new growth. The sun and humidity will play a role in evaopration on the top and first couple of inches. Without drainage your bog may have a very wet bottom thats while the top peat is dried. For a true bog you will need a large amount of Canadian sphagnum peat moss. The type sold at retailers in the square bales. This will cost a bunch unless you can get it wholesale. If you want a wetland garden it will still take a lot of humus mixed with acidic Canadian sphagnum peat moss and some blasting sand, not play sand. Bogs are very acidic and a wide variety of plants can be grown in them but while the plants like wet roots they don't want to stand in water for long periods of time. Drainage is a must thus while reduction of watering maintenance is required care must be given not to let the bog dry out during drought or other dry periods of time. Tap water is questionable but thats a lot of typing for now I will leave the topic alone. You have a nice size area for a great bog garden. You will have at least the same maintenace in the summer as you have with the pond. Never forget that weeds love wet sunny areas and will quickly find a great home in a bog or wetland garden. Birds bring or drop seeds as well. Squirrels love to dig up plants and disprute bog gardens. The maintenance will be weed pulling and other typical garden procedures on a regular schedule or shortly you will a garden with a 5' high bunch of weeds, grasses, trees, and other non-desireable plants. The deep end nearing 3' is going to be costly to fill. Typically a depth of 18 - 24" is a good depth for a bog garden. No smell and I don't understand why your pond smells. This doesn't sound normal. Plenty more, but this enough for now, Take Care, Mike St. Petersburg FL