Turface is a wonderful soil component for container soils & helps drainage aeration in in situ soils. I'm not sure it's what you want for topdressing in TX, unless you have unlimited water resources to apply to the lawn. It absorbs and gives up water quickly.

I probably wouldn't use it in container soils you're building for plantings that are only to last a season, though (because of expense - unless you don't care - then, go for it). ;o) Perlite is fine & is what I use in 1-season plantings.

Al

I would sure avoid using Quick Dry for this purpose. Not appropropriate for typical turf situations at ALL.

Thank you both for the information. I am going to try and be greedy and ask for some follow up information in 4 specific but long questions. I apologize if this is novice stuff. I'm still learning. I apoligize for the wordy questions, please read through and give a newbie some good advice.

(1) with respect to container plantings - Al (or any other soil gurus out there), you mentioned that turface (I'm assuming you mean the MVP formulation) is a good soil component. Let's assume I want to keep it simple and just amend a commercial product (like MG, promix, or Schutlz soil or potting mixes that i can get easily at hardware stores) with a quality inorganic material to extend the life of the container soil, improve drainage etc. What percentage of Turface to a commercial potting or soil mix to you think would be appropriate? Most of my containers are hibiscus and hydrangea. They are not, however, one season plantings. I dont plant tropicals and treat them as annuals. If its an annual I protect it on the rare occiasions its too cold here in zone 8. Most of my container specimens are very large terra cotta containers with very cool - not typcial south Texas plants in them - that I keep alive year after year.

(2) a more general question about particle size - if I understand the experts on this forum correctly, uniform particle size means better drainage which means no root rot. Does this mean I cannot add anything fine to my soil mixes? I frequently add earthworm castings and or kelp meal in small quantities to almost everything. And both materials are extremely fine. Have I messed everything up? And also, Promix has a formulation that allegedly prevents root rot, so do I even care? Should I just use that and save myself the trouble?

(3) with respect to the quick dry. My yard has some puddles after heavy watering or rain and I was hoping this product could help. But does it have any container plant application? Am I correct in my assumption that it is the same material as turface MVP but very fine?

(4) with respect to the lawn application. I don't care about watering the grass as much as I care about hard rock like dirt in which nothing will grow. Also, I'd prefer an amendment that would increase the durabilty of the lawn, because the dogs put a ton of mileage on it. Any ideas? I dont have a tractor so I wont be doing this very often. Maybe once a year or every other year.

1) You'd need to play with this mix a bit to get the water retention you need, but I would start with:
3 parts uncomposted pine or fir bark
3 parts Turface MVP
1 part sphagnum peat
1 part crushed granite or other VERY coarse sand (maybe not needed)
You could sub your commercial mix for the 1 part peat. This soil has the added benefit of being very easy to remove from roots at repot/root-prune time.

2) It sort of depends on what you're adding and how much. E.g., I limit peat to 3) As Dorie mentioned, it might not be appropriate to use, and particulate size is only one issue. Another poster asked about a similar baked clay product a little while ago. I suggested he/she try to soak it in water for a day to get an idea of its suitability. The report back was that it had disintegrated & reverted to clay. Whether your product will work or not depends on the temperature at which it was fired and how vitrified it is.

4) Not a Tex lawn guy - sorry. ;o) Ask your local landscapers how to approach, or maybe others can help. Topdressing with an organic material would seem to me to be a better alternative to dressing with a product that so readily gives up its moisture. Good luck on this one.

Al

tcharles,

As for the lawn--do you have heavy black clay soil, or caliche rock?

Topdressing won't provide any quick massive improvement to your soil, though a light topdressing of compost will have benefits. Tilling in several inches of organic matter will help any soil. Tilling in Turface could help improve drainage, but you'd be much better served buying expanded shale in bulk for this purpose (much cheaper). None of this is really necessary for your lawn, as turfgrass should perform adequately without undergoing the herculean task of working in soil amendments into an entire lawn. Several inches of compost and expanded shale would be great for flower/vegetable beds.

The puddles are probably just low areas--level them out with native top soil.

You'll never get a perfect lawn where the dogs are allowed to run. Bermuda grass could handle more traffic if you have a sunny yard--but they would probably tear that up pretty good too. You can either have a good lawn, good puppy dogs, or split the difference with a good fence.

Jason

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Gardenweb is a great resource for people like me to get advice from smarter and more experienced people like you. A couple of points and / or questions. I apologize again for taking up your time. Hopefully, other people on the site will find it informative.

(1) Al, you really sound like a guru. I'd happily buy you a beer and BS about plants with you if you are ever in SA Texas. But I do think that it's really funny how comfortable you are recommending Turface for container plantings but pass the buck when it comes to suggesting it for its intended use - building and amending durable turf. If I have one question for you it's this... Does any of this hi-tech cutting edge container stuff really matter? I ask because I just uprooted a containerized hibiscus tiliaceus which I did not adequately protect from the cold. I bought the plant two years ago without even knowing what it was or how to care for it. I just love hibiscus plants. I don't remember excactly but Im sure it was potted in a commercial potting mix like MG potting or maybe even MG garden dirt w/o amendment. The plant's root structure consumed the entire container (20 gallon clay pot - the plant was purchased maybe 25% that size) and was perfectly healthy after two years, with the exception of my letting it freeze. And again, I'm clueless now but was even more so back then. And I'm pretty sure I've never had a plant with root rot. And I have tons of containers. how much better is this - coarse particle inorganic matter approach? Is it realy worth me jacking with? Im not growing bonsai here and frankly, I like repotting containers. If All I accomplish is putting off repotting one year then I'll buy the promix.

(2) With respect to the lawn....I don't know enough to even describe my soil. For the most part the lawn is very healthy and my neighbors frequenlty comment on my beds and lawn. I do have some weeds. And high traffic dog pacing areas are compacted dirt without anything living growing. The color is brownish gray. In these few places the soil is so hard that you grasp at it with your hands and not pick up anything.

(3) with respoect ot the quick dry turface. It does not behave as described above (turning back into clay). It is an extremely fine powder like product that sucks up water. It's reddish like a baseball infield. I think it could be useful in numerous applications. .... Any thoughts....

Turface can be a real boon for turf areas that undergo steady traffic (dogs or other wise). One of the worst offenders to turfgrass is compaction. But you need to understand that no lawn can withstand steady hard activity. If you knew what sort of efforts go into keeping a golf course green 'up to par', you would understand. ;-) Many sports fields, by the way, are constructed (nearly artificial) soils.

The Quick Dry is too fine textured a material to be useful for your purpose. Your goal should always be to do what you can to provide AIR spaces for roots. This is a fact whether you are discussing lawns OR containerized plants. Air spaces (pores) can be improved by the addition of coarse organic matter, too. It's all about porosity.

As a matter of fact, you should always remember that OM can be the 'cure' for lots of soil related issues. It creates porosity within a heavy, airless soil but will also offer water holding capacities to a sandy soil.

Al IS a guru. He is an incredible warehouse of knowledge and practical experience regarding soil and root systems, rhizosphere interactions, soil structure, plant growth and development, and much more. Turfgrass is simply not something that he has concentrated on, thus he was certainly not 'passing the buck'. ;-)

Although Turface and similar products have been designed for use by the sports field industries, bonsai enthusiasts and other container growers have used it quite happily for ages. I've used Turface in my containers ever since I saw the beneficial properties during my days as a consultant for the golf course industry in SC. Once I began building container soils that were extremely coarse, my plants showed quite an amazing boost in vigor and over all health. Now, if I were given the choice of using ANY commercial potting medium or not having containerized plants at all....I think I would go plantless. It makes THAT much of a difference.

I suggest that you do a Search right here in the Container Forum so that you can gain a little insight on the benefits of a coarse textured container medium. I'll even attach a link to get you started.

I also suggest that you try the Lawn Forum for your turfgrass issues. There is always lots going on over there, and I'm sure that you will find the answers you are looking for. Some pretty crazy characters, too. Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: Grab that beer and let's read....get one for me, too!