Thanks to all for your feedback; in short: - the property is City-owned, but the maintenance of same is left to the home owner. The City does not maintain residential sidewalks and generally does not deal with them unless public construction requires it, a homeowner requests assistance, or a formal complaint is lodged. - the width of 3' is considered standard for sidewalk cut-outs, as far as I can tell. The City of Los Angeles, among other municipalities, approves of this width as a standard minimum for pedestrians, strollers, wheelchairs, etc. - I decided to try using plastic paver edging, which is held in by metal stakes. This seems to be a standard solution and should provide a solid edge next to the pavers to prevent wash-out. - I've decided to forego the construction of a retaining wall, as the landscaping is really secondary to the sidewalk pavers. Construction of this terraced "box" is probably an extraordinary effort for what is a public walkway. - I may use gravel in place of the mulch in the landscaped area, as it should be more resistant to wash-out and allow some dispersion of the water flow. Thanks again- -m-

Mike: Not sure what specific products you're looking for, or what the pricing is usualy like in Michigan, but you might look for an importer or manufacturer of those products who can ship to you. My company does travertine pavers, and the pricing is usually cheap enough to my clients that even with freight, we're a dollar or two cheaper pre sf. I'm not sure how well that translates to brick, but it might open up your search area beyond MI. Jason Lambert Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.travertinewarehouse.com

I mentioned mortar not concrete. While not a huge discrepancy, mortar would be much harder to work with and not as durable. (How much concrete is not set on a flexible base? Nearly 100%?) Let's note that a crack here or there, if it ever happens, is not "failure." The retainer will continue to do its job. For the record it should be noted that the recessed concrete retainer was THE retainer of choice and the ONLY retainer available for many decades. The claim that it is "guaranteed to fail" is utterly false. There are many examples of this type edging presently in long term use all over the world. It is no longer the retainer of choice only because it is heavy and more time consuming to install. Plastic is lightweight, quick as easy. One of the reasons I created the thread was to illustrate and explain HOW it must be installed in order NOT to fail. (Do I need to say here that I am describing something primarily for residential use?) How could knowledge about a recessed concrete retainer be useful? -- If one has more time than money. It is about 1/3 to 1/4 the cost of plastic. (This doesn't apply when spending other people's money!) -- If one decides on a whim to do a small weekend paving area and can't get or doesn't want to wait for plastic, since bagged concrete mix is available everywhere. (A small landing at the base of the deck steps would be an example.) -- For retaining a mowing strip (which is essentially what is in the second picture.) For a commercial job a concrete retainer wouldn't be practical because it would be more expensive (time is money) ... like how drywall is preferred over plaster. Plastering is still done, but only on high-dollar projects.

Thanks for the responses! I like the simplification of adding a rubble border - I'm going to think of what I might do in that regard that will fit with existing materials and overall look. As for using the same base for both - I would love to do that and think that 2 1/2" of compacted pavers would provide good enough opposition to support the base course of the wall. The constraint there is that part of the new patio butts up against an existing pool deck, and the pool deck is sloped for drainage around the pool. Matching that pool deck will leave new pavers 2" higher in the middle than on the ends. Using the same base for the (30' long, 30" high) wall means the wall base would also be 2" higher in the middle. Maybe having a wall base 2" higher in the middle than on the ends is no big deal, but since I am not expert enough to know when it is OK to break/bend the rules, I tend to follow them when I can.