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Container Gardening

agricultural lime vs dolomite

12 years ago

what's the difference?

can either one be used?

does one work faster than the other to raise the PH?

thanks

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Comments (8)

tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
12 years ago
Aglime can be almost all CaCO3, or it could be roughly the same Ca:Mg ratio that's in prilled garden lime. Prilled lime has lignosulfonate binders to hold the prills together and usually has somewhere around a 2-4:1 Ca:Mg ratio, which is desirable.

The size of the lime particles (along with temperature and soil moisture content) is what determines how fast it works. Prilled limestone is essentially powdered limestone in prilled form, so one would work about as fast as the other - no distinct advantage.

Al
fortyonenorth
12 years ago
They are both sources of calcium and magnesium. The typical analysis of ag lime is 32% Ca and maybe 1% Mg while dolomite lime is roughly 22% Ca and 11% Mg.

Either can be used to adjust your pH, if that's your goal. However, you'll need to take into account the lack of magnesium if you use ag lime. I generally use ag lime and add magnesium sulfate (epsom salts) as my Mg source. If you're using a fertilizer that contains Mg you can skip the Epsom salts altogether.

Both are relatively fast-acting. However, using pulverized (as opposed to pelletized) lime will be the quicker option. I used to think there was little difference between the two, but I recently read that pulverized lime will raise your substrate pH 1-2 units within a week or so. It will take pelletized lime more than a month to achieve the same increase. The application rate in both cases was 5 lb per cu. yd.
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Greenman28 - that is more lime than I'll use in a lifetime. I have to be honest - I do organic grows, and I really don't pay much attention to PH most of the time. I've had containers that had a little lime vs. another similar planting that didn't, and neither of them held any distinct advantage over the other, when it was all said and done. I'd rather mix a nice rich mix, and barring any super out of whack PH shift, just take my chances. If I had synthetic ferts and a 5-1-1 mix, maybe I'd need to be a bit more studious. But while I DO check PH, I usually don't sweat it. Just not liking the idea of wasting a batch of fine ingredients.
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I wouldn't get all whacked out of shape about changing soil pH. If you make a point of getting your basic soil nutrients in order, the pH will adjust itself. Your test: Calculated CEC 13 %K: 2 %Ca 26 %H: 65 %Mg: 7 The best calcium percentage in soil is between 60-70%. The best magnesium percentage is 10-20%. Heavy clay soils should probably be about 70/10, sandy soils closer to 60/20. Your calcium is low, but if you look at your Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC) figures, your Magnesium is only 7%. That is hardly excessive. I would use dolomite lime, as you need an increase in both calcium and magnesium. These two work together. You need to get them in approximately the right percentages before you even try to fix anything else. Take both your percentages and add them together, and they should total about 80%. Yours: 26%Ca + 7%Mg = 33%. That's not even close. If your magnesium WAS high, you wouldn't be able to get rid of it until your calcium level is at least 60%. Once your soil hits 60%, the soil gets loose enough for magnesium and sodium to move out with rainfall or irrigation. Your test recommendation suggests adding 220 lbs lime to every 1000 sqft of soil. That's equal to 9460 lbs of lime per acre, more than the 4-ton max advisable. And even at the maximum, it will still take three years for the lime to disintegrate and become part of the colloidal complex, at which time the plants will benefit, IF the lime was finely ground enough. If you have your soil tested every year, you'll know where you are and where you should be going. Because of that 3-year lime thing, always tell the lab when and how much you applied. Otherwise, they'll keep telling you to add more lime, and more lime, and by the time all the lime is broken down, your soil will be lime-toxic. In fact, keep good track of whatever nutrients you add to the soil, and inform them when you send a soil sample in. Sue
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Comments (2)
It looks like the Dolomite Lime contains Calcium and Magnesium Carbonate, CaMg(CO3)2, thus could potentially through off the balance of mineral elements in your nutrient solution. I'm not a chemist so I don't know how the Carbonate part of the Calcium and Magnesium Carbonate part factors in, or what is processed in, or out (if any) of Dolomite Lime for the agricultural product. However I know that General Hydroponics makes a product called CaMg+, though GH doesn't list ingredient, or say how the product is manufactured, or what it's derived from etc.. Just that it's a Calcium and Magnesium supplement. Also it appears that Dolomite Lime is intended for use in soil. I'm not clear on how much of it is readily water soluble, and/or how much of it actually needs to break down first (like in soil). I haven't used it for anything myself, I just looked it up to see what it was. Here's something that I found that talks about using dolomite lime, as well as lime quality. Soil Acidity & Liming
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I think the KEY IS-Calcium Acetate. Dolomite Lime just add Mag. to the mix. Other Acids can do a Ca. thing. IF the net is right???? Acetate can be used by plants ON CONTACT. If the stuff I read AND seems to work is right...FOR MY GROW. I'd bet any organic thing inolved in an Aetate COULD probably work for all kinds of home made organic nutes. As I understand it,Acetates/Vinegar produced stuff. Not a problem as far as being too acid etc. Doesn't mess with PH,What I make is WAY less than 5% acid of Vinegar. At 2 or so oz. per Gal. or less,I doubt it has ANY effect on PH. I've used it without problems in my Hydro grows. BUT I change nutes often. Cheaper and LESS time consuming than messing with PH up or down... Smoke
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joeworm
Original Author
12 years ago
went to the feed store, asked for dolomite, made sure he heard DOLOMITE. brought out the bag and loaded it in the car. i didn't pay any attention to what he brought out because I asked for dolomite and he said that's what he had. got home and it is CALCITIC LIME.

went to another feed store and asked for dolomite. he said ok no problem. this time i looked and it is also calcitic. guy said this is what everyone uses.

Is CALCITIC okay or do I need to find dolomite?

Thanks
fortyonenorth
12 years ago
Yes, you've witnessed first hand the muddle that is lime-type nomenclature. Calcitic lime is high-calcium lime and has roughly the same CCE (calcium carbonate equivalent) as dolomitic lime. In terms of adjusting the pH, they will have roughly the same effect. As I mentioned above, if you use calcitic lime, and if your fertilizer does not contain magnesium, you may want to supplement with a small amount of epsom salts (magnesium sulfate).

I've included a link to a Clemson University site that explains the different types of lime.

Here is a link that might be useful: Clemson
joeworm
Original Author
12 years ago
can you give me some idea of how much epsom salt to add to the calcitic lime and how best to apply it?

thanks for the help
fortyonenorth
12 years ago
What are the components/proportions of your container mix and what are you trying to achieve with regard to adjusting the pH? Most bagged mixes already have lime added to adjust pH, so I'm assuming your mixing your own? Maybe something akin to the 5-1-1?

Here is a link that might be useful: Container Soils & Water Movement
joeworm
Original Author
12 years ago
I haven't done any containers yet but I plan to.

What I'm doing now is making a mix for a raised bed. 1/3 each topsoil, pinebark fines and compost. the topsoil is acid around 5.3 as well as the pine bark so I need to add lime to raise the PH. I have the calcitic lime so I suppose I need to add some magnesium????

Thanks
fortyonenorth
12 years ago
Magnesium sulfate (epsom salts) is 10 or 11% magnesium. Calcitic lime can be variable, but let's assume it is 70% Ca. If you mix epsom salts to lime 3:1 by weight, the resulting mixture will be roughly 2:1 Ca:Mg - about 17% Ca and 8% Mg, which is a lower analysis than typical dolomitic lime, but you'd just need to add more - about 2x as much, in fact.

Now, having said that, unless you know the Ca and Mg content of your topsoil and compost, I wouldn't automatically add lime. If it were me, and I was building a raised bed, I'd pull a sample for a soil test. Otherwise, you're really just guessing.

Now, if you really want to forego the test, I'd add a cup of your lime per cu. ft. of soil - assuming you're going to thoroughly incorporate the lime. If you are going to just mix it into the top 6" of soil, use half that amount. If you end up getting dolomitic lime (which is a higher analysis) cut those recommendations in half.

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