I can help with the Datura. They will grow okay in a container, but will really be something in the ground; if I had the space, I'd plant in the ground. If grown in a container, give it room - it is a bushy plant - I'd suggest at least an 18" pot. You could underplant with something like impatiens if you wish, but make it a part-shade lower-growing annual, when the datura gets going, it will shade out the rest of the stuff in the pot (due to it wanting to grow bushy). Growth is by far best in full sun. If you haven't started from seed by now, forget about it this year, buy transplants if you can this year.

Thanks mxk :-)

Yes, I have three seedlings already growing. Small but doing ok. I do have a container that large, and wonder how will it look if I plant all three seedlings in one container and nothing else? When you say underplant, does it get leggy or something, that you need to disguise lower branches? Does it grow bushy on it's own or should I be pinching them back at some point? I don't have any ground space in full sun. Part sun, but not full sun. I can place a container in full sun though. If I like it enough this year, and I wanted to try it in the ground next year, what about at the end of the season? Do you dig it up and try to overwinter it? Or do you treat it like an annual and start it from seed every year?

Thanks again, I am trying a number of plants this year that I have not tried before. Exciting! I can't wait to see how it works out.

:-)

You want one Datura seedling in the 18" pot. I tried to stuff a few into a 24" pot last year and it looked great early but they ran out of root space and died about halfway through the summer. And Datura doesn't get bushy as in a true bush. It puts out runners that can get big. And the leaves get so big that they will cover up anything else in the pot. Since they like sun, I am trying mine this year with Verbena imagintion. The verbena looks great with a small grey Datura seedling. As the Datura grows, it may crowd out the verbena but that is ok.

I also grow 4 o'clocks. I haven't tried them in a pot but in the ground, they like full sun and very well drained soil. I actually grow mine in a very xeric setting and they love it. I have a short summer - only 110 days avg- but my 4 o'clocks get about 18" to 24" tall. If you have the perennial form of 4 o'clocks, they really do not want any water. If you water them too much, they will rot out.

Oh and if you decide you like Datura and/or 4 o'clocks, both have easy to collect seeds. I just collect seeds every fall, put them in an envelope and start my new plants from the seeds in the spring.

Thanks Nancy :-) I do enjoy verbena and that drapes over the edge, so that could work for awhile. Since I have been growing the datura indoors, I will have to get it used to being outside soon. It has been cold and windy, just as over a week of rain ended, so I have not started getting them outdoors yet. One datura in one large pot, full sun. Great. Is datura fragrant like brugs? When do you put yours out, after memorial day? Do you fertilize?

I'm not sure what form I have of the 4 oclocks. I traded seed for them over the winter [so I will collect seed from both this year] and they are labeled, just 4oclocks and the color. I also bought broken colors, is that the annual form? Nice to have something that doesn't need a lot of water. Do you start them direct sown outdoors after frost, or did you start yours early?

No, datura shouldn't get leggy as long as you plant it in **FULL SUN**. I just like to underplant with a couple impatiens to fill in a bit before the datura takes off (I have smallish seedlings too right now). One plant per pot is plenty - you'll see why :b. They are quite fragrant after opening in the evening. I love the foliage, too - very attractive plant.

Thanks mxk.. looking forward to the fragrance for sure and it will also be neat to see a plant that takes off and grows large. :-)

Broken Colors is an annual form. I started mine inside - I live at 6100' and our growing season is only 110 days long so I like to get a jump on it. You can still plant them outside. I noticed a few reseeds coming up last night. I think I would soak them in water for a few hours before planting the seed. They should sprout pretty quickly. The sprouts look a little different than many sprouts. There are two small wavy leaves immediately.

BTW: I usually give my seedlings a pinch, maybe two, gets them a bit bushier. Not necessary, but I do it anyway.

A few years ago, my sister just had to have a Datura. She had it given to her as MOON LILY. I warned her about the aggressiveness of it in this area, but she wouldn't listen. The next year she must have had 300 plants in her flower bed. Also, they are quite poisonous if you have small children. They are beautiful plants, though, and they attract quite a few hummingbirds.

Four o'clocks are great plants and they are fragrant. Annuals are the ones grown in this climate but you can dig up the tubers in fall and store them like dahlias (never did it but I've purchased tubers from Bbrent & Becky). Plant them right now, outside in full sun with good drainage. I would say that in our climate they get to maybe 30". Too big to edge anything so I have a spot reserved for them on a south bank.

So Nancy, on the 4 oclocks, when do you start them in the house and how big are they by the time you put them out? Do they bloom sooner for you? When can I expect them to bloom if I am direct sowing them now? You are in zone 5 and they reseed outdoors? So if you don't want a lot of reseeding, you should deadhead?

Thanks mxk...on the datura, my seedlings are about 3 in tall, should I pinch them when I put them out? Are they sensitive to cold?

GTGardener, I guess if Nancy gets reseeding in her zone than I can expect it in mine. Thanks for the warning and yes I knew they were poisonous and I don't have any kids or pets around the house. Definitely deadheading! I didn't remember that they attracted hummingbirds. How great!

Thanks oldroser, I plan on getting them planted this weekend. I didn't know that about tubers. Interesting.

I know there is a separate forum on Brugs, where I can get info, but any info on growing the Nicandra?

Thanks,
:-)

I forgot to ask...if I direct sow 4 oclocks into a container, how many should I plant?

Thanks
:-)

I think it would really be time consuming to deadhead Four O Clocks. Mine have lots of blooms and hundreds (thousands) of seeds. If they reseed, which mine do, you can easily pull, thin them out when small; harder when they get bigger due to the long tuber root.

Nine have reseeded where I don't want them so I am going to try to move them to a different location. I don't know if they like to be transplanted but I am going to try.

Ok, since I have not grown four oclocks before, I didn't realize they bloom so profusely. Looking forward to that. So would you say that they don't need deadheading? Due to continuing to bloom without it? The deadheading I am talking about was to prevent reseeding. Since it is only 2 containers of 4 oclocks, I could use hedge trimmers I suppose, toward the end of the summer is when they set seed right?

Thanks :-)

Just wanted to update and ask a few more questions. I was finally able to get the Brugsmania and the Datura into containers. I did put them in their own large containers. They look so forlorn though, with one plant in the middle of an otherwise empty pot. Isn't there something I can grow in the pot with them that will add some interest while they are gaining size and to hide any possible bare knees later?

I also direct sowed into containers, four oclocks, that don't seem to be germinating. I did see two small seedlings in one pot that look very different from each other, so maybe one of those is a four oclock, but I put at least 20 seed in the pot and I would have expected germination by now, with all the rain we have had. It has been over two weeks.

The Nicancra...no one really responded to the question about growing that. I guess no one else has grown it. I have a seedling that does have some variegation on it but it is so tiny. I just don't know what to do with that. If I should just put it in a container with a lot of more advanced annual seedlings or not. Anyone have experience with Nicandra?

Thanks :-)

Four o'clock seedling:

{{gwi:9888}}

They do germinate easily. What they might be lacking is a little heat. When the sun hits them, they'll probably be up quite quickly.

My daturas and four o'clocks last year. They smothered a few things... This was in partial shade. As you can see, not enough sun for the alyssum to flourish.

{{gwi:9890}}

Janet's Garden

Janet, that is some photo! I have not seen any datura that healthy looking and the leaves are such a blue green, with that white. So that is what a 4 oclock seedling looks like. Well, then I do have one seedling out of the 20 seeds I planted in two containers. lol Since they appreciate heat, then that is probably what has been missing. This weekend is supposed to be hot, so maybe they will pop.

Thanks for sharing your photos. :-) I will try to get photos if I can ever get enough growth..[g]

Prairiemoon, I'd never seen them look that good before either. ;o) It was the first time I grew them in the ground and they took off. Mind you, I hadn't used 18" pots either. They do like to have some room.

Four o'clocks have worked well in containers for me.

Good luck with yours.

Janet's Garden

I have one datura in a large pot. But, since I planted it in the pot, it has grown tremendously. So, although it might look a bit small for the pot now, I hope that it will soon grow big enough to fill out the pot. I had extra seedlings, and do you know, no one wanted them. Everyone I offered them too was afraid of them, telling me how toxic they are. I was even told that smelling the flowers could be dangerous. Well, I was almost convinced to toss them all out, including the one in the pot, but after posting on gardenweb, those with more experience assured me that while poisonous, with careful handling, there should be no problem. So, I am going to plant the remaining seedlings in the ground. Might as well live dangerously, right?

Hi Janet and hpny2...

Thanks for sharing your experiences and your photos Janet, great garden..love your roses and geraniums! I will keep my eye out for more germination of the 4 oclocks.

Hpny2....I am a little nervous about the datura and brugs actually. I wasn't and then I was and then I wasn't and now I am again. My daughter was helping me plant them the other day and you should have seen the look on her face when I told her they were poisonous and she should avoid touching them. It made me wonder, why am I doing this again?

I hadn't heard that smelling the flowers could be dangerous either. Is that true? Can you tell me what your understanding of handling them carefully is? I have read that you don't need to be too careful, but should wash your hands after handling the leaves, then I read you should wear gloves when handling them. I wonder if I should place it in an out of the way place, so no one brushes up against it. Now I am wondering if I really want to have a plant in the yard that you have to think about that much. [g]

Someone told me smelling them could be dangerous, I didn't read it anywhere. I am inclined to think it's probably an exaggeration. After all, if the plant was that deadly, would it be legal to sell them? Digitalis is supposed to be poisonous too, and you see them everywhere. Of course, I don't have small children or pets outside that could accidentally ingest it. Although, there is a certain woodchuck in my back yard that I would just love to see nibble on my datura, but he's probably much too smart for that.