A question for Al about the peat soil 5.1.1 mix

15 years ago

Hi Al,

I was wondering. If I decided to use the 5.1.1 soil mix of bark and peat for my Palms, would I need to add any additives such as gypsum or other if I was going to fertilze my Palms with Foiliage Pro?

Does this contain all the nutrients needed to not have to fiddle with my mix?

Thanks so much in advance!!!:-)

I hope you are well too. I remember at this time you were not feeling so well. I hope this winter is a different story. I still love your posts and your responses.....:-)

Stay healthy my Garden Webb helper and friend!

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Comments (4)

tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
15 years ago
Thanks, Mike. I hope '09 treats you well, too.

"If I decided to use the 5.1.1 soil mix of bark and peat for my Palms, would I need to add any additives such as gypsum or other if I was going to fertilze my Palms with Foiliage Pro? Does this contain all the nutrients needed to not have to fiddle with my mix?"

Yes - on it's face, from a nutritive perspective it would seem that because the Foliage-Pro (FP)contains Ca and Mg, none would be necessary, but we need to take into account the low pH of the soil if we don't lime. Until the pH equalizes at around 6.2, most of the Ca in the FP will be what is called reactive. This means that most of the Ca will be used in neutralizing the acidity of the soil. AFTER the soil pH equalizes, the Ca added in fertilizers (or the excess from liming) will become residual and more readily available. That's why, even though FP contains Ca, we still need to lime if we want to guarantee enough availability to prevent a deficiency.

In the gritty mix, the pH will be higher, closer to 6.0 before liming, so it's not as important; and the higher pH is why I prefer gypsum to lime in the gritty mix.

Pick a fertilizer with approximately a 3:1:3 NPK ratio, or mix in 1 tbsp of potash per gallon of soil when you make it and use a 3:1:2 ratio blend (12-4-8, 24-8-16, 9-3-6 are all 3:1:2 ratios). You can also supplement the 3:1:2 ratio fertilizers with a little extra 0-0-3 ProTeKt for the added K. Recently, the move has been to use the higher potassium fertilizers for palms. A 15-5-15 blend would be ideal (which is why I suggested the potash or ProTeKt).

The company "Scotts" has recently released what should be an ideal containerized palm fertilizer with micronutrients, + magnesium and calcium, if you can find it.

Al
gringojay
15 years ago
Would calcium designed for foliar feed have any merit? Metalosato from USA
(Oklahoma?) markets it heavily.
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Ah, the search continues to find the elusive Pine bark fines! I am in awe of Al's vast knowledge and in fact, became a Member of the Garden Web after reading the "Al Chronicles" in seven (or is it 8 now?) Volumes. Al, you are the Zen Master of wicks, water plateaus, and medium mixology! .....but I digress. I wanted to mention one source of nitrogen that will slow release and is more to my liking as it doesn't come out of a bottle (though it does come in pelleted form), which is Alfalfa Pellets. (the horse kind, not the rabbit). The pellets will swell and fall apart as soon as water is applied and offer a quick fix of readily available nitrogen to offset those pesky sap woods in your pine bark nuggets. For my OCD tenancies, I don't care for any of the bagged bark products available from your local Home Improvement Palaces, because in my estimation, none qualify as true Pine Bark Fines. What I consider pine bark fines is always PARTIALLY COMPOSTED PINE BARK, which by it's very nature, you can crumble into bits through a diamond mesh screen. Almost without exception today's "Forest Products" are the byproduct of lumber harvesting, which is ground up and dispensed into bags. Nothing even approaching composting of pine bark is occurring with these products because it takes too long. I haven't found a reliable source of "fines" other than harvesting my own from around the bases of harvested Ponerosa pines cut over a decade ago.Old timber operations often left the bark and branches piled at the harvesting site, which is another good source, as are old dead snags, which will have the bark slip from them and land about their bases. All of this requires a bit of labor on your part, but then again, it's a lovely way to spend the weekend, right? National Forests in California are quite accommodating and will issue a permit if required, or happily point you in the direction of a likely spot to forage. I can usually fill my pickup truck bed in about 4 hours and all it costs me is my time and gas for the truck. I attribute my OCD behavior on the subject to an ancient Bonsai Master I had the privilege to study under back in the late '60's, who was very exacting in his tutelage. "Fines" were exclusively "Partially Composted Pine Bark", period.
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It may be that you've over-potted, which is choosing a container that is much larger than the last one - hard to say from your description. The 'mushrooms' you are seeing are just the fruiting bodies of fungi that ware already in the bark. Don't be concerned, it just means conditions are right for the shrooms to fruit - no big deal. If you're concerned about water retention, insert a wick into the drain hole & let it dangle below the pot after you water until the pot stops draining. Locating the drain hole near the edge (but still on the bottom) and tipping the pot at a 45* angle so the drain hole & wick are as low as possible makes a big difference in how much water your soil will hold. You could also just partially bury the container in a bed or garden. It only needs to be a couple of inches deep for the earth to 'pull' all the excess water from the soil. It's better to repot/pot up when the plant is actively growing or just about to enter an active growth phase, so roots colonize the new soil mass quickly. You don't need to change to a different soil now, just be aware of how much water your soil DOES hold, and water when your plant needs it. I.e. when the soil feels dry at the drain hole; and use the tips you think are appropriate for you. Al Here is a link that might be useful: More about dealing with water-retentive soils
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tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)
15 years ago
Well, since Ca is almost completely immobile in the plant, it must be present in the nutrient stream AS cells are being formed. Those cells formed while the plant was deficient of Ca are forever what they are - no Ca application can repair them. They will be weak, malformed, or perhaps could not form at all. (look up pic examples of Ca deficiency to see how tissues form when Ca is lacking). Since foliar feeding in itself is a band-aid fix, I would say that it would be of limited to extremely limited value.

The only soluble source of Ca that is used in fertilizers is CaNO3 (calcium nitrate). It would make far more sense to apply it to the soil as a drench than to apply it to leaves. Used as a drench it would enter the nutrient stream within a few minutes & supply Ca and N to the entire plant.

One way it might be of more value is if there was an ongoing Ca deficiency caused by high levels of Mg or P in the soil, but now we're going beyond the ability of most hobby growers' assessment abilities. It's better to correct the toxicity levels of Mg or P than to apply Ca foliarly.

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meyermike_1micha
Original Author
15 years ago
Thank you very much Al...Really appreciated..:-)

A question for Al about the peat soil 5.1.1 mix

Comments (4)

tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)

gringojay

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A question for Al about the peat soil 5.1.1 mix

Comments (4)

tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)

gringojay

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tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)

meyermike_1michaOriginal Author

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