Hello!

We've been getting lots of rain during these last three days..4.5 inches and counting. The soil was so dry, much of the water was soaked up very quickly, so on our property, there is very little flooding. The zinnias loved it, too, even though they are great for hanging on during dry spells. I've seldom seen a zinnia wilt, even during the drought. But, during these last rainy days, they have increased by size at least three times. This is a great time for transplanting, too. With several days of cloudy wet weather, you can transplant almost anything. I have lots of volunteer sunflowers,and have been moving them around.

ZM, I really like your tubular blooms, so hope you have a few to show this year! I had some last summer, but not nearly so completely tubular as yours. I have some plants going from those seeds...maybe 15-20. If this trait is a Mendelian recessive, I'm hoping to see at least a few tubulars, as I tried to self them last year--but there may have been some unplanned crosses with other flowers in the gardens.

Your 'Razzle Dazzle' zinnia is an interesting tubular display! It looks like a modification of the scabious form, without guard petals. Do those tubular petals shed pollen where they are yellow?

Your Whirligig photos show some good examples. Those zinnias are always so much fun to grow, because there are always some surprises among them! I always make sure to grow some every year, both for themselves and for any genes they may contribute to the other zinnias for next year's seeds.

Love the photos of your garden, Alex! That bed of rhubarb is something...don't know if I've ever seen rhubarb flowers! Do you plant the seeds? I like the way you create your raised beds..they are functional, and also, that type of raised bed can be changed in configuration from one year/season to the next. I have very modified forms of those types of beds in one of my zinnia plots that is lower, and which tends to collect a lot of rain when there are downpours, and where the plants would ordinarily get too much water. I am mulching the valleys currently with old daffodil foliage...some say that fresher leaves may make the soil N-deficient, but I have never had that problem with zinnia seedlings. I also often use old hay from the previous winter, and probably soon will.

I see you also cater to your cats! I am very thankful for our cat Betty. She frequents my garden as if she were a gardener in her past life. I know that she discourages a lot of creatures who may otherwise do damage to the plants there. I also add some form of elevated pool to my garden, not for Betty, but for the birds and insects when it gets dry..my pools are very small, often in the form of an old flying saucer or old birdbath dish. Looking forward to seeing your Whirligigs!

Martha, I like to plant for the wildlife here, too. I have a small butterfly garden with a lot of natives to complement my zinnia patches. Have some New England aster, prairie sunflower, turtle head, royal catchfly, black-eyed susan, and others. Also cup plants....wow, are those ever invasive, but I love them when it gets dry as they collect water in their "cups." What zinnias are you planting? I think you mentioned some of the Profusions earlier on...

Love these wet days when things can get caught up!

JG, aka Jackie

Hey, Jackie -
Yeah, after our long, mean winter, Mother Nature suddenly became benevolent to flora and fauna, alternately shining and showering to speed growth. Though we have had a bit more of sun than showers, so I will need to set the sprinkler today.

The rhubarb has been in that spot for years now, bought originally as a small plant. When we put down the tarps, we left it a little window to grow through. I am going to have to keep an eye on the grass that was growing with it through the "window". To be honest, I've hardly done much with it over the years, since the stalks - of this plant at least - never get that lovely cherry red that you see in pics. And since they always tell you every other part of the rhubarb is poisonous, I've always felt a bit nervous. :) And those blooms, which I think are attractive when they're fresh, really smell unpleasant! I'll be cutting them down soon as they're almost spent.

Yes, the raised beds get re-dug every year after tilling. As I was saying to Martha, if we didn't have so much trouble with the particular grasses we have here, I'd let them be permanent and just do the "Ruth Stout No-Dig Method". My perennial beds are permanent, but I have to constantly be messing with them or it's heck to pay! I really don't like that kind of maintenance - fresh newly tilled beds are better - but the perennials tend to frown on getting dug up and moved around much. :)

On the subject of Nitrogen leaching by fresh cuttings - my understanding is that if they are laid down on the surface - not mixed into the soil - then any negative effect on the plants is minimal. One of the culprits spoken of most often is fresh sawdust, but then being particulate in form, it more easily gets mixed down into the soil around the plant roots - hence the problem with n-leaching. I think that's another Ruth Stout thing - she did what she called sheet composting, in which she would layer fresh cuttings and kitchen debris directly under the straw mulch. It would break down slowly, but since it wasn't touching the roots, it didn't take their nitrogen.

Yes, we have indoor cats who are leash-trained (Samhain is one of these, though she was originally feral), but we also care for an outside colony of ferals, all of whom have been spayed or neutered (Spock is the youngest of these). Gradually, we are stopping the endless cycle of kittens in our area, these descendants of descendants of the original barn cats who were brought here long ago to work on the farms, and then left to go wild when the farms ceased to be. They brought me a mole for a late Mother's Day present, bless their little hearts! :)

What are cup plants? Sounds interesting.

- Alex

Hi Jackie,

"Your 'Razzle Dazzle' zinnia is an interesting tubular display! It looks like a modification of the scabious form, without guard petals. Do those tubular petals shed pollen where they are yellow?"

The yellow borders aren't "fuzzy" and are just a bi-coloration of the "petals", and there is no pollen associated with those borders. There is, however, an anther bundle in the base of the trumpet-petals, and a stigma which gets self-pollinated by the anther bundle. Because of the functional anther bundle, these "Razzle Dazzle" specimens are completely different from most of my tubular specimens. And they have the "star petaled" mutant as one parent. The "star petaled" genes seem to interact in various ways when crossed with other zinnias. Interesting.

The Razzle Dazzle flower form is, as you say, functionally equivalent to a Scabious zinnia without guard petals, with the difference that the "florets" are very much longer than those in the scabiosa flowered zinnias. There seems to be quite a bit of genetic complexity in these tubular/star flowerforms, and this is going to be an interesting year growing these outside. I plan to do a lot more cross-pollination with these "exotic" specimens, and I am growing a lot of "conventional" zinnias to receive "exotic" pollen. I want to broaden my exotic gene pool with respect to more colors and bigger flowers. More later.

ZM

Jackie,
You asked which zinnia I'm growing. I have used mostly saved seeds from last year. So, I have Zahara Starlight Rose, Purple Prince (or something Rose that looks nearly the same), Profusion Cherry something, an old package of red, button shaped who's name I can't remember.

I haven't been able to take advantage of the weather, since my partner chose to take a two week vacation these last weeks. I also have teenagers finishing up their year, so carting them to and from concerts and tournaments and graduation parties. Plus, my daughter does tech assistance for any activity going on at the auditorium, so I need to drive her back and forth. Thankfully, she can get her license in the next month or so. My plan is to plant zinnias this weekend. I have them sprouted in jugs in the driveway.

Alex,
Where are you in Michigan again? I would love to take a road trip to meet you and see your garden in person. I'm so proud of what you've done for the feral cats. Re your rhubarb, some varieties don't get the red stalks. As long as you pick them as new stalks in spring, they will have the same flavor as the red varieties. I think it is the leaves and roots that can be poisonous. The stalks just become tougher as they mature, so aren't as pleasant to eat. I bet you could still pick a few smaller sprouts and try a rhubarb sauce or pie. I've had delicious, moist rhubarb bread that is really more like rhubarb cake. My sister has a similar, or even larger patch, and she barely uses hers, either.

Happy growing.

Martha

Martha - we're in the middle of MI in Mecosta - or, rather, the bookshop is; we live not far from there. The garden's not ready for viewing at this point, but if you're in to having a roadtrip and you like books, you can check our hours on the net. Just google Mecosta + books and you'll find us. I have to ask - you don't happen to have two sons by the name of Stephen and David, do you? If so, then you already know me.
- Alex

Martha - just had my question answered. Out of the blue, the other doctor mom called to see what our hours were going to be when she and the boys drive in from Ann Arbor. :)
- Alex

Nope. I have a son and a daughter. So, I don't think I do know you, yet. At least not that I know of.

Martha

Hey ZM, remember when I told you that we didn't have any major zinnia pests in Missouri?

{{gwi:6227}}

Haha! I caught this little guy red ... er, white... handed!
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Alright, truth be told, I broke that stem off on accident when I tried to literally pinch off a zinnia bloom. So the bunny is mostly innocent. I don't think he'd eat the zinnias otherwise, but dang, he's so cute!
I was splitting firewood this morning and he jumped out and watched me split some wood. He's very playful. I petted him a few times and gave him a piece of clover.

There are four white bunnies that were born this spring after two big white rabbits overwintered here. Quite a pain, because I had to put up a fence around the vegetable beds and they did eat some of my zinnia seedlings (but that was my fault). They don't care much for old plants, so I won't bother putting a fence around the zinnias - but I need to find a new spot to plant my other zinnia seedlings. One where the bunnies won't nibble on them. Very nice cool weather today! I'm off to do some more gardening fun.

Telescody - wow, look at that! Where did they come from? Some neighbor breeding white rabbits in your area? Is there a medical research facility just over the hill? Were any of them wearing waistcoats and carrying watches, muttering something about being late? :)

Hi all!

Telescody, better not follow that bunny into a hole! He looks so out of place there! We also have some tame/half tame bunnies running loose from one of the neighbors..the ones here have a Himalayan pattern of white with black feet, nose, and ears. They don't seem to like the zinnias, but they do love the squash seedlings, so I have had to protect them.

Martha,you'll have a nice variety of zinnias this year. It seems you have a very busy life these days! When the kids go off to school, you will miss a lot of the activity! I have some zinnias actually coming up from last year. I am really surprised, considering the very long and cold winter. They look to be either Zinnia haageana or marylandica. I will know soon!

ZM, are you going to grow any of your Shaggy Dog type of zinnias this year? Just wondering! I thought those were nice! We've had a lot of warm temperatures and rain this spring. I am thinking that I will have zinnia flowers before the end of this month--early for me!

Alex, this was a weeding day again for me. Hopefully, things will slow down soon, so I can look forward to seeing the flowers. You asked what the cup plant looks like. Here is one of the plants I have
--the big one behind the yellow flowers:

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Here is the area where the leaves attach to the stem and form the "cups":

{{gwi:6230}}

Jackie

Jackie - it's gorgeous! Never heard of it, though I see from looking online that it grows here. Sort of a standard sunflower-y type flower. You are same zone as I am, so it would grow for me. But you say it's invasive, so - never mind! Got enough to worry about as it is.
Don't know about you guys, but things are growing like gang-busters here. Here are a few up to date pics of the pond and the little perennial garden area. The first one is my water-loving cat, Samhain, out for her leash walk. None of the others are this fascinated with water.
- Alex

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Samhain10, I have no clue where they came from, but even the mother and father rabbit were very tame. Sadly, the father bunny died one day and called it quits in our drive way when no one was around - no blood or obvious signs of what caused him to die... maybe some disease, or illness? Shortly after that, the mother started carrying grass across the yard (which is a very odd sight indeed). Then a couple weeks later, I'm out watering some flowers when I glance over to see four white baby bunnies hopping around.
{{gwi:6234}}
Haven't seen the mother rabbit around for at least a month now, I can only assume that someone or something ate her.
Also, you have a very very pretty garden and pond. And cat.

JG, interesting that we both seem to have careless neighbors. I have seen a few of those cup plants growing wild around here. My favorite native flower so far has been the tickseed sunflowers. We have some small ones that grow a couple feet tall in the field, and some tall ones along the edges that grow to about 6' and have large flowers. They only show up when summer is almost over, and the heat is unbearable.

Anyways, I have a couple trays of zinnias germinating right now. I had some 30 plants with their first true leaves, but I left them in reach of the bunnies, and so they got nibbled off at the ground. That's a little discouraging, but there's still hope.

There is no denying that little guy is severely cute. Got to be another escapee, though, of course albinism does spring up spontaneously in nature. However, that you had both a white male and female show up together makes the natural theory rather less likely. And it could be the male died of old age - rabbits don't have long lifespans even barring misadventure. About like a cat: kept inside, they may live 10-20 years, but outside in the elements without all the extra care, considerably less. Which is going to be the case with some of our ferals if they don't stop digging up my plants...:)
- Alex

Hi everyone,

I am excited that the first two of my outdoor zinnias have bloomed out. This is the first one.

{{gwi:6235}} And this is the second one. They have the same parent, so they are somewhat similar.

{{gwi:6236}} That last one has a reasonably good approximation of the Razzle Dazzle flower form. Both of them combine tubular-petaled and star-petaled genetics.

We had heavy cloud cover from an ending rain when I took those pictures this morning, so the colors are rather muted. I am pleased that the backside (outside) of the petals is reasonably white. Now that we are getting some broken sunshine, those whites appear much lighter. I've got a lot of weeding to do, so more later.

ZM

Hi Telescody,

"Anyways, I have a couple trays of zinnias germinating right now. I had some 30 plants with their first true leaves, but I left them in reach of the bunnies, and so they got nibbled off at the ground. That's a little discouraging, but there's still hope."

I'm indoors for a brief break from my garden weeding, so I don't have time right now to post pictures, but there is a possible solution to your rabbit/zinnias problem. We use 2-foot chicken wire to keep our rabbits out of selected parts of our vegetable garden (our rabbits love kohlrabi) and I use it to keep our guineas out of my zinnia seedbeds.

We use 2-foot high chicken wire held in place by a few posts which consist of 40-inch pieces of rebar. We get the rebar at Home Depot, although I am sure that other home stores and such have it. We pay about $5.65 plus tax for a standard 10-foot piece of 1/2-inch rebar at our nearest Home Depot (a little over 20 miles away). For the little 2-foot chicken wire fence posts, we cut the 10-foot (120 inches) rebar into three 40-inch pieces. My son uses 1-inch mesh chicken wire, but I use 2-inch mesh chicken wire because it costs about half as much (a little over $20 for a 150-foot roll). The 2-inch mesh is adequate for me, and is a little easier to work with.

For other uses of rebar, I cut it into 4 pieces for row markers, and into 2 pieces for tall 60-inch border markers. I like rebar because I can drive it with a hand sledge into our hard and/or rocky subsoil.

It is surprising that the 2-foot chicken wire works at all, because you would think that a rabbit could easily jump over it or that a guinea could easily fly over it. For some reason, they don't, or at least they go over it very rarely. And I can easily step over it, so it isn't inconvenient for me. Chicken wire could be a humane way of keeping your bunnies out of your zinnia seedlings. But I am sure there are other solutions. More later. The weeds are calling me.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

Hello again, Telescody,

Well, I'm done weeding for today. Plenty more weeds available tomorrow. This is a picture of a couple of beds of Burpeeana Giants "protected" by 2-foot 2-inch mesh chicken wire.

{{gwi:6237}} You can attach it easily to the rebar posts in a variety of ways. Here I used just a short length of scrap insulated copper wire.

{{gwi:6238}} You could use nearly anything to attach the chicken wire to the post, or you could just thread the post through the wire, going on alternate sides of the hexagons. This is one of my partly used rolls of 2-foot chicken wire.

{{gwi:6239}} The wire itself is a relatively thin 20-gauge galvanized steel, so a roll of it doesn't weigh much. My rolls came secured with a pigtail of single wire wrapped repeatedly around the roll at the midsection. They did overkill with how much wire they used for that, but I unwound it and saved the single strand. You never know when you will find use for a piece of wire. I have several more seedbeds of zinnias that I plan to protect with a 2-foot chicken wire fence. I'll be sawing the three rebars that we have onhand into 40-inch posts tomorrow. I have a good hacksaw that I use for that. And I think we will buy a few more rebars in case we need more posts. If you have questions about any of this, feel free to ask.

ZM

ZM - once again, what I see when I look at these pics, is the relatively grass-free areas (sigh). What a pleasure that must be to work with.

As for the rabbit fencing - I admit to surprise that it doesn't need to be higher - cool. The point is moot for us here, though, as we have few rabbits foolish enough to show a whisker in this yard (the cats), but we do have deer moving through constantly, rather like a herd of cows. Thus, the 8 ft fencing around the corral-garden.

My zinnias are already 4-6" high! The anticipation mounts...

- Alex

Hi Alex,

" ...what I see when I look at these pics, is the relatively grass-free areas (sigh). What a pleasure that must be to work with. "

Oh, I could show you grass. I could show you Lambs Quarter, Pig Weed, Nut Grass, native plants I don't even know the name of. You name it, I've got it. Weeding, as Ford would say, is Job One for me. Job Two is to finish planting my zinnia seed beds this month.

You can plant a Fall crop of zinnias in July, and I have even planted zinnias as late as August (they do bloom in about 6 weeks and the shorter days of Fall actually accelerate that), but I am skipping the Fall crop this year, to focus on pollinating and gathering green seeds and planting them, or their embryos, indoors for an early start on my indoor zinnia garden.

"My zinnias are already 4-6" high! The anticipation mounts... "

Zinnias are fast growers. You can speed that up with a foliar feeding of something like MiracleGro. My zinnias seem to respond very well to the MiracleGro Tomato Food formula, possibly because of its extra magnesium (a component of chlorophyll). MiracleGro also has a Blooming Formula with extra phosphorous, and I have noted that plants do indeed need extra phosphorous to make blooms and seeds.

As kids on the farm, we participated in what we called "Plant Races", in which we each transplanted an identical plant and then saw who could get their plant to grow the fastest. No holds barred. You could breathe carbon dioxide on the plant and talk to it or sing, prey, threaten it, or whatever while "applying" the carbon dioxide. We used conventional foliar feeding (that was before Miracle-Gro, but there was a foliar feeding product available called RapidGro), and unconventional organic nutrition in addition to the usual inorganic nutrition. I remember "dissolving" some egg whites in water and applying that. A comic book had featured a story about a villain who accelerated plant growth with agar agar and, lacking that, I tried the egg white. That was inconclusive.

I don't recommend egg white for organic foliar nutrition, but sugar and a little glycerin can be absorbed foliarly, and used by the plant. That can supplement the normal photosynthesis in cloudy weather. Don't make the foliar solution stronger than recommended on the container. In fact, frequent applications of weaker solutions are more effective than infrequent applications of maximum strength solutions. The very fastest growth comes from daily applications of weak solutions (quarter strength or less). More later. The weeds are laughing at me.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

This post was edited by zenman on Fri, Jun 13, 14 at 11:01

This is my very first zinnia of 2014. I'm kind of disappointed that it's so boring. But I have at least 10 more plants with no blooms yet, so there's hope yet!

{{gwi:6240}}

Desirai - boring? Boring?! It's gorgeous! The color is won-der-ful! Two bugs couldn't hold themselves back from it - they had to get closer. And just look at those lovely stylish petals. I tell you, you guys are making me impatient to try my hand at this hybridizing thingie.

ZM - lamb's quarters, pigweed, nutgrass - ha! I laugh at your puny weeds! This is what I have to contend with: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canary_grass - in addition to all those you have already named - and those you haven't. Oh, and you forgot burdock, stinging nettle and milk thistle. Though, to be honest, those last three aren't usually in the corral area.

I suppose I could direct plant some more zinnia seed, but I think I'll be good and stick with the small area. I've got so much else planted this year, I shouldn't give myself any more work. Thanks for reminding me to feed them, though. I'll do that on our next days off.

- Alex

AWWWWW you are too sweet.
The petals I like, yes, but it's just sunshine yellow. I was hoping for rainbow with fluorescent pink speckles ;)

Hi Desirai,

I agree with Alex, that is a great zinnia, and a great picture of it with not one, but two insects. It is definitely not boring, and those petals have an unusual shape. They are almost like two petals fused into one, with the heart-shaped petal endings. And they are a bit curled or furled -- not a flat shingle like ordinary zinnias can have. You definitely got lucky with that zinnia. Such a bright rich yellow. Can't wait to see some more of your zinnias.

ZM

Hi Alex,

Your laughing at my "puny weeds" has me laughing. Your writing is quite good, and I really enjoy your wit. I will remember your message with pleasure as I re-attack my weeds tomorrow.

ZM

Speaking of weeds... I was pulling some weeds around the beans yesterday and just lightly brushed against a stinging nettle. I knew it was a stinging nettle and I was trying not to touch it, but it happened.
I can still feel where it poked me, and then poked me again when I reacted to the first poking. That was like 15 hours ago.
Some plants are such jerks.

Here's a bloom from the zinnia that wasn't quite open in the other picture I posted a long time ago. I took this one yesterday. Absolutely gorgeous weather. Low 70s, clear sunshine, a cool gentle breeze and not humid, despite the 3" of rain that we received recently.

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Telescody - I just read about this recently, but couldn't remember which leaf it was that was the remedy for stinging nettle. Found this short video to confirm it. What they were calling dock, though, I call sorrel. If you've got stinging nettles, you probably have sorrel around, too. (Oh, and ZM - add that one to the list...) I have yet to try it, but I may do so soon, for the experiment's sake. I don't feel too nervous about it, because for some reason, nettle doesn't give me more than a very short-lived pain. And I've been told by someone at some point, that I walked through poison ivy, but I never got a rash. That was a long time ago, though, and body chemistries can change. I do, however, react badly to no-see-ums, whatever those nasty little biting gnats are - even worse than mosquitoes. They can raise a welt that will be with me for several days. Will let you know how the experiment goes.

ZM - go pull your weeds. I can hear them from here. Gotta go - I actually still have to work for a living...dang it.

- Alex

Here is a link that might be useful: treating stinging nettle with dock (Rumex) leaves

I finally got some zinnias in the ground! My perennials are really maturing nicely, and I planted many new ones this year, as well. So, I don't have as much time or space for zinnias. But, they are still some of my favorites for their nonstop blooms and attraction for pollinators. I planted saved seed from some beautiful marbled blooms I grew last year, and some soft yellow cactus blooms, and Profusion Cherry and Zaharah Starlight Rose. I also had an old package of "Red Cap Zinnias" that are described as "red buttons". The picture looks like little red balls with a small center of florets. I'm hoping the hummingbirds will like that type. If I get a chance, I'll take some garden pictures to share.

Martha

Martha - my perennial beds are doing well, too. This weather is our just compensation for the horrible winter we went through, I'm guessing. Everything is looking great! Once again, I'll mention scarlet runner beans for the hummingbirds. They grow fairly quickly - and on that note, I just remembered I wanted to plant a second batch to come up on my tomato trellis. Gotta go67yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy - sorry, Samhain is helping me type again. Never allow a cat access to your computer - she always wants to turn on the Caret browsing, whatever the heck that is...

- Alex

Hello!

It is so neat to see your first blooming flowers! ZM, that last of the two tubulars is my favorite...not only is it tubular, the petals are markedly star-shaped. Please show that again when it is fully opened. You have a wonderful line going there...I'm jealous.....

Desirai, the yellow color of your flower with the lady bug is great. You might have been looking for speckles, but that shade of yellow is so nice..I would like to have a whole bed of those flowers..it would light the whole garden up.

Telescody, that's the fullest zinnia I've seen here for this season..nice! It will be awhile before I see ones like that in my garden. By the way, nettles are really a nuisance! If you have any jewelweed, you can rub some of the juice of that plant where the nettles hit (ASAP after they did) and that may help if you have those around, too. That's our local remedy.

Well, like ZM, I also have my hands full with weeds. I just wish it wouldn't get so darn hot when they pop up! My first flower of the season opened up. It is a Zinnia haageana, or commercial strain Persian Carpet, and it is a volunteer from last year's garden (that says something about the hardiness of those seeds!).. this is not very
remarkable,but here it is, for the record:
{{gwi:6244}}

In the last few days I attended the Master Gardener (Indiana) State Conference and enjoyed it with all the presentations on garden plants. Giving two talks was fellow plant breeding enthusiast, Joseph Tychonievich. I asked him to pose for our zinnia breeding thread:

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He is particularly excited about breeding snapdragons now. (Joseph, if you visit this site, please do contribute..we'd love it!).

Back to the weeding here..more later..

Jackie
=

OMGOSH YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!! Look at this one!!!!! I'm so excited!!!! It's on the same exact plant as the yellow one I posted a couple days ago.

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Wow! Beautiful color AND cool shape. That's a keeper.

I'm showing my age and lack of regular excercise. I spent one day squatting to plant zinnias, plus lifting countless arms-full of oak leaves to stuff in the shredder. The next day I helped my brother transplant baby evergreens from one part of his property to another. Today I can barely stand up. I'm exaggerating, but I do need to be more careful to stop earlier than I used to. I also need to make sure I get out doors at least three times per week to keep those muscles in shape. Getting older is not for the faint of heart.

Martha

Hey JG, went for a bit of a hike today, and came across a few cup plants.
I couldn't help but stop and take a picture for you.
{{gwi:6250}}
Mine doesn't quite match up to yours. I searched for pictures of the flowers, and man, they're pretty! I gotta save some seed from these later in the summer to grow next year. Native wild flowers are pretty awesome, thanks for the inspiration.

Ive read Joseph Tychonievich's book- I recommend it. I might look into rose breeding...

ZM, if you still breed the tubular-petalled zinnias, you should send some seed to the Seed Savers Organization. They can help you create a strain out of them. such a unique zinnia strain should be saved and distributed. (Send me some too, while you are at it :P)

My zinnias still did not flower. If the 65-70 day figure is correct, they should start in a week or two.

Martha - you have a shredder??! Dang. That would be useful. (sigh...) Yeah, all getting older - But I can still sling a haybale around. Well, maybe not sling exactly. :)

Hey, I just looked up the cupplants and see they are Silphium perfoliatum, and in the same family as compass plant. I had one of those - it might still be there, but it hasn't flowered for the past couple of years since it is in a regular mow area, and there are so many obstacles that John has to mow around, that I haven't had the heart to tell him to watch for one other spot. I'll check, though, to see if it is still there and mark it for "no-mow". I would have transplanted it years ago, but apparently it's one of those that sends down a mile long taproot that doesn't survive moving. If it will bloom again for me, I will save seed for planting. It's how I got it before - seed somone gave me.

Desirai - see? see? Not boring at all! That first was just the test bloom, but I like them both, truthfully. And speaking of zinnias, some of mine are starting buds!

- Alex

Alex,
Yes, we love our shredder, especially since it is a hand-me-down hand- me-down that my sister got at an estate sale. Unfortunately, many parts are starting to rust and we no longer have the van we used to transport it here. I'd love to have it rebuilt by some old handyman. It's touchy enough that I don't even try to use it without my husband around, and it's really a two-person job, anyway.

I got the last of my zinnias in the ground yesterday and we had a fabulous thunderstorm all night. So, hopefully they will tolerate their transplant well. My dog is not so happy with the storm. As she has gotten older she has developed a terrible fear of thunder, and now even rain. I don't know how we're going to get her outside to empty her bladder this morning. Looks like the storms will last most of the day.

I did take a few progress pictures of the garden. I'll post one representative now and post later when I have some zinnias blooming. You can just see a few zinnia sprouts in the left lower corner and more in the back left of center. My garden is at it's shadiest right now and gets sunnier as the sun heads back south. The most shade-loving plants are at the back, though I've also tried to arrange somewhat based on height. For perspective, I am standing on the shoulder of the road to take this picture and only captured a diagonal portion of the large bed.

Martha

This post was edited by docmom on Fri, Jun 20, 14 at 6:08

Martha - and apparently you were also standing on your head at the time - LOL! You might want to check your pics for positioning...:)

Hi Jackie,

" ...that last of the two tubulars is my favorite...not only is it tubular, the petals are markedly star-shaped. Please show that again when it is fully opened."

I took this picture of it this morning. The whitish color on the petals is no longer prominent because the petals are much closer together now.

{{gwi:6254}} From a distance it just looks like a pink zinnia. It hasn't put out any conventional pollen yet. It is possible that there are anther bundles inside the petals, but I haven't checked that out yet. Several more of its siblings are starting to open buds. I'm still weeding. More later.

ZM

Sorry about the picture position. My iPad automatically re orients any picture I take or that anyone else posts, so they always look correct to me. So, I can't see any problem. Therefore, I can't tell whether it's fixed. I try to take all my pictures in the same direction to avoid this problem, but I must have gotten switched around when I clicked that one. I'm just going to leave it. Maybe I'll see if I can reorient it.

Martha

Will someone let me know how the picture looks now? To me it looks upside down and I'm betting others with apple devices will have the same problem. Sorry to clutter the thread with irritating miscellaneous stuff.

Martha

Martha - you're still standing on your head, but that's alright - I turned my laptop (which is a Dell) upside down so I could see the pic. You've got alot of stuff planted - I can see the zinnias; they're to the front and left, right? What's the purple blooming off in the distance?

ZM - that's a very pretty bloom. It sort of reminds me of the lantana that I grew up seeing down in south TX. I wonder if they are structurally similar with each "petal" an individual flower, so to speak.

- Alex

Hey guys! I got 2 new zinnias today. One of them isn't quite open though. Can any of you tell what color it might be? I'm excited! :) The other one I think came from a pack of "cherry swizzle" but I'm not sure. I think I'm going to cross it with that awesome zinnia I showed a few days ago, with the curled petals.

{{gwi:6256}}
{{gwi:6260}}

it has been quiet.......

Ummm I tried that green heading.. or whatever you called it.

ZM explained it's where you pull the seeds before they actually dry? when they are still green?

Well I plucked just a few petals of each of my zinnias and got some beautiful bright green seeds..... do I just let them dry now? How do i know if I did it too early?

If the seed has a full feeling to it, then it has been pollinated and will grow.

Hi Desirai,

Like Martha said, the viable green seeds will be "fat". If you pinch them gently between your thumb and forefinger, you can tell the full seeds from the empty seeds. You can easily bend an empty seed, but a zinnia seed that contains an embryo resists bending. That applies to brown seeds as well. But with green seeds, you can tell the empty seeds from the viable seeds pretty much by just looking at them.

{{gwi:6263}} As with my other pictures in this thread, you can see a larger version of the picture by clicking on it and hitting the F11 key to make the new screen heading go away so that the picture fills your monitor screen as best it can. When you are done looking at the big picture, hit the F11 key to get the heading back so you can see how to close the enlarged picture. The larger version might help you see the difference between the "good" green seeds and the "empty" ones.

If you want save your green seeds for use later, spread them out on a newspaper and let them dry out for a week or two.

If you want to plant them immediately, I will show you how to breach the green seed coat so that the embryo can get water immediately. Since the green seed coat is alive, it is impermeable to water and if you don't breach the seed coat, the seed won't sprout until the seed coat dies and becomes water permeable. That can take well over a week, so the breaching thing is best for rapid germination.

You can also go a step farther when breaching the green seed coat, and remove the little white embryo, and plant it. Last Winter I planted two trays of embryos instead of seeds, and it worked fine. I usually use some Physan 20 (one tablespoon per gallon of water) to protect the embryos from bacterial attack -- after all, the embryos are kind of "naked". But you might have success if you skip the Physan 20.

ZM

If the seed has a full feeling to it, then it has been pollinated and will grow. Let them dry and plant whenever.

Martha

Hi!

I think the worst of the weeding is over here, although my garden is far from having the manicured look. By the appearance of my plants, it seems I should have many zinnia blooms in the next week. Can't wait to see what I get! Am always hopeful for pretty extreme rolls, but for now, any of them would be very welcome!

ZM, your dark pink tubular flower is wonderful. It looks very full, and the edges of the tubes are serrated. Hope you get lots of seeds from it! Your breeding program is going so well. The sibling plants will be interesting to see.

Martha, that photo of yours is interesting. It looks like you have lots of space to work with! Looking forward to seeing your flowers! By the way, on my PC, your picture is upside down, but on my iPad, it is right side up!

Desirai, you're really getting a nice variety of blooms...lots of different traits to work with! Do better than I did the first few years, and keep records of your crosses, so that you can get an idea of what genetic inheritance you have!

Alex, I also have a compass plant...right now its space is being taken over by a cup plant! You can see it's fernlike foliage in this not too good photo:
{{gwi:6267}}

Telescody, if you grow cup plants, make sure you keep them somewhat contained..they have lots of progeny when mature! It took about three years for mine to start flowering.

Goclon, looking for photos of your flowers, too!

I am hoping for some interesting extreme-roll flowers, but am also hoping for some large flowers with bright red petals, that are very thin, with white undersides, like this one from last year:
{{gwi:6270}}

Every year, I have had a plant or two with flowers like the above, and I am not careful enough to make sure it is selfed, and that I collect a good number of seeds.

Jackie

Thanks so much for that picture of green seeds. The seeds i pulled are definitely fat and healthy, not a single one is flat or bendable!

Wooo hooo!!!!

I'm so excited.

Do you think I could plant now and get some growth before winter?

I'm not exactly sure how long it takes a zinnia to grow from seed. I never really pay attention to growth rate, only to germination!

Bad news, one of my zinnias died unexpectedly... it began to wilt and within 24 hours was brown, limp and... almost soggy looking.

{{gwi:6273}}

Hi Desirai,

With respect to your zinnia that died unexpectedly, I have had that same experience from time to time. I usually "perform an autopsy" to see what went wrong, and I have found that usually the problem is a bacterial stem infection that started from a small wound in the stem near the soil line. In a few cases, I have found that a stem borer larva entered the stem, so I split the stem to find the borer (and killed it). Fortunately this sudden death problem is fairly rare.

"Do you think I could plant now and get some growth before winter? "

I do. Zinnias usually form a main stem flower bud in about 6 weeks from the time they come up. Green seeds are slower to germinate because their living seed coat is impermeable to water, but the coat will die and become permeable in about two weeks. So your green seeds could be starting to bloom in about 8 weeks from the time you plant them. That's about 2 months, so they should be in "full bloom" in about 3 months, which would be some time in September. I don't know when you can expect a first killing freeze, but since you are Zone 7b I would guess that your first killing freeze would be in late October or possibly in November.

In other words, if you plant your green seeds now there is a good chance that you will be able to see their blooms, pollinate or cross-pollinate those blooms, and harvest viable green seeds from them before your growing season ends.

As I mentioned before, you can speed up the germination of green seeds by "breaching" the seed coat to allow immediate contact with soil water with the embryo inside. I use an X-Acto knife to cut the seed coat to do the breaching.

{{gwi:6276}} My favorite method is to cut the petal off of the seed and then pull open at least one of the "side wings" of the seed. I prefer to use a curved blade like in the picture. First I cut the petal away, closer to the seed embryo than in the picture. Then I place the knife into the edge of the seed so as to just "miss" the embryo (grin, X-ray eyes could help here) and, letting the knife blade anchor the seed, I use my fingernail to pull the seed a little ways from the blade. The knife blade holds the side wing stationary and my fingernail pulls the seed open a bit. It takes a bit of practice to get the hang of it.

Any technique that gives the embryo access to water works. If you should accidentally cut the root tip off of the embryo then it can't grow, but if you accidentally nick the cotyledon part of the embryo, it probably will grow with a small missing part of the cotyledons.

Whatever you do, be careful not to cut yourself with the X-Acto blade. It is razor sharp. And work on a surface that you don't mind nicking. A cutting board, plastic or wood, would work. I use an inexpensive folding TV tray from Walmart that has a plastic surface. It cost less than a good cutting board, and is handy for a lot of things.

If you have questions about any of this, don't hesitate to ask.

ZM

Here's a lovely zinnia that is fully open today. It has baby pink in the petals but you can't really tell from the photos I took.

{{gwi:6280}}

Desirai, I like the color of your pastel zinnia there. Is that one from your 2013 seeds ?

With some more rain and a lot of heat, my zinnias are opening, and quickly! I hold my breath to see some of the traits I saw last year return!

Here is a cactus-type flower from HPS Seeds:

{{gwi:6283}}

Here is a Peruvian zinnia, Zinnia peruviana--the flower is small, about 1 inch across:

{{gwi:6286}}

The Peruvian zinnias can be red or yellow, and I save seeds one year to the next.

Jackie

Hi everyone,

Since this message thread has gone beyond 100 messages and is a bit unwieldy, we are continuing this message thread over on It can be fun to breed your own zinnias - Part 26. See you all over there.

ZM