Proper etiquette when asking builders for a bid?

9 years ago

When seeking out 2 or 3 bids on a unique plan to build a house, mostly drawn but not ready for the permit stage, how many builders is it appropriate to ask for a bid at once? I live in a tight-knit community and I am concerned that builders might not put too much diligence toward putting together a bid if they know I am not committed to them in getting my project into budget.

Featured Answer

PRO

GIRSH DEVELOPMENT INC

9 years ago

Here is what I would do in this case. Ask your architect if, in their opinion, the plans have enough detail to get a proper estimate (elevations, structural, exterior finishes, etc.). If not, finish them to that point (called a bid set), if they are at that point, choose three regional builder (selection of the builder is a whole other discussion). These builders should have 1 hour or less of daily commute to your site. Most builders with experience will know that the client is pricing out the plans with several builders and should not be upset about this. If they are, they are not for you. They should be accommodating and interested in your project. I have built for many clients, where I was not the least expensive bid, but I wanted the project and made sure to take good care of my clients. That type of attitude forshadowed the value that my clients were going to get during the construction phase of the project.

Create a specifications list detailing all the finishes you want (to make sure you will be comparing apples to apples). Give those builders the plans and your specifications list and ask for a solid guesstimate within a week. This way you are not wasting too much of your time nor the builder's time and effort. Once you have those figures from the builders (again, make sure they all have the same material to review, even if its not fully done), you can sincerely ask that builder that you like the most (that will provide you the most value, not necessarily the cheapest!!) to provide you with a proper proposal. That proposal should have all the specifications (details of what is included, or budget allowances where there are unknowns), all the exclusions (such as architectural work in your case), and the final price for those plans.

You also want to ask the builder to provide you with several prices for options for particular features (such as hardwood flooring instead of carpeting; stucco instead of siding, etc.). Mainly you want to test if the builder will be reasonable when offering options or changes to the original specification list.

By the way, during the final proposal process a good builder will almost always ask you for clarifications and elaborations on the plans and specifications list to make sure that they are giving you a valid price and not missing any important items and issues. Unless everything is spelled out (which it is not in your case) those builders who don't ask questions, typically will have miscommunication issues with the clients during the project. Of course, not everything can be foreseen, but if the builder is not focused during the proposal stage, I am not sure they will be during the construction stage.

It is not uncommon for good and established builder to get compensated for the final proposal since it takes a lot of time and effort. When I ask for compensation, I typically credit it back to the contract if I am awarded the job.

Discuss the changes that you want to make on your current plans and what those would cost.

Once you are comfortable and have done your due diligence on the builder, get areal estate attorney to review any contract and make sure you and the builder are on the same page as far as all the terms. Many people skip this stage for some reason and then get in trouble!

Good luck with your project.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (24)

User
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
You don't get bids on an unfinished design. Ever. If you want a feasability budget check as the design goes along, then you pick one contractor, and you pay him for his input.

When the project is finally therough design phase, be prepared to pay for bid developments as well if the design is outside the norm.
PRO
Patricia Colwell Consulting
9 years ago
The whole point of bids is to choose a builder and they know that if you are concerned go outside you community for a builder if the builders in your community are pros they understand the system. I would however have a professional set of plans not something sketched out on a piece of paper before getting bids this always looks like you are serious and will get a more concrete bid from all. the other thing is know your budget and be realistic about what you can get in your area for that money.
Related Discussions
Etiquette when a project collapses
Q
Comments (11)
Just an update. I spoke with the GC on the phone today and it went very well. I had already sent him an email letting him know the project wasn't going to happen and offered to pay him for his time. It was an very amicable conversation with no finger pointing. We discussed where the project derailed and what we could have done better. If course, he politely assured me that I didn't need to pay him anything. Then he mentioned that he started a new service about a year ago that offered design advice and project pricing for a flat fee of $1200, but it didn't apply to me since we had no such agreement. I told him that sounded entirely reasonable and I would be happy to pay him $1200. Oh... and his son might want to buy my lot. LOL. So other than the check, I do plan to write him a nice letter with it and perhaps include a gift certificate. He definitely gets a good reference from me. Since I have two friends actively looking for a builder with the same credentials, I may end up sending business his way as well. When I think of how badly this could have turned out, either with a bitter "divorce" or worse yet, an unscrupulous builder like the horror stories told so often on this forum, I am very happy with my choice of GC. Professionalism isn't always easy to find in the building industry. And who knows, I may build a house some other year.
...See More
How can bids from builders differ?
Q
Comments (8)
Great points above. Sensing a trend that its mostly about Overhead and Profit which might be true sometimes but certainly not always. If I had to bid on some plans right now, it would be a higher than typical price as I currently have enough clients who will work in my preferred Cost Plus arrangement. My overhead is extremely low but I also use preferred contractors who cost more. Building a good home is a combination of the right products, right labor, and right knowledge. There are increasingly stringent building codes which are creating an ever widening gulf between builders as I see it. Minimum building codes are pretty easy to achieve but it will cost more money. Many of the things that make a better home cost more money and its impossible to specify all the materials, labor and knowledge in a set of bid documents. Does your detailed specs and plans include how to protect your freshly poured slab on a hot day or cold day? Type and # of anchor bolts. 3" washers? Does the Radon pipe just stub under the slab somewhere or is it tied to a sub slab drainage to daylight? Very cheap insurance that I would not install if it wasnt in the plans or specs. Do the plans call out the type of sill sealer? I would never use an off the shelf version with what I know. How about sheathing fastener schedule? Its pretty cheap to use the newer APA recommendations but might have my carpenters skip it on a bid job. Just how detailed is that wall section of yours? Ive never had one to bid on that I would feel comfortable following to a tee in the field. How about sloping window pans for the rough sill? What type of flashing tapes? I find its best to mix brands depending on application but wouldnt want to waste my money or time on something I wasnt getting paid for. A 12 SEER unit could easily outperform a 16 SEER unit depending on what HVAC sub you go with or how much you babysit them. Surely you have the Manual J in the specs and blower door test goals? Its surprising the difference you might see between houses in this area in terms of comfort, energy efficiency and durability. Do the plans spell out how to meet ASHRAE 62.2? I dont think I could build a house without meeting this minimum ventilation standard but I know I would use a drastically different way to achieve it on a bid job. It wouldnt cost me as much and would not work as well as the slightly more expensive system I would recommend for most clients. Fixed bids are very likely to omit some important details that take place below the finished surfaces. In addition to what others have mentioned (and many more) the difference in prices will surely reflect a bit of this discrepancy between builders too.
...See More
What to Specify When Asking for Custom Cabinet Bid
Q
Comments (11)
pull-out breadboards? treatment of any display space such as wine rack, bookshelves, decorative panels? treatment of plain panel sections on cabinet ends?--I wish I'd had it in writing that our guy would use good-looking grain, not too busy. I won't even share a photo of a place where it looks like he thought a nasty grain board would be on inside, not outside of the end panel, sigh. handling of grain in symmetrical sections? I know that cabinet guys can't always match up the oak well, but in big expanses of oak, there can be obnoxious wild grain that needs to be used as a positive feature, not a negative eyesore. Can your guys match-up as best they can for slab or center "Shaker" panels from same general grain kind of board--look at these large drawers, where one set has good match and one has less good. (At least there isn't a real stinker piece here.) (Note: My dad was an old-school carpenter and he would have insisted that cabinet guys treat grain as a feature in symmetrical cab faces.) maximum use of space vs. sizes of cabs? We have a few places where we could have gained functionality if measurements were different. Be sure that you keep track of the sizes and expectations as the evolution of plans takes place. I think that I can explain why the inconsistencies crept in, but I'm not the only one who should have caught the error that cost me dearly in one instance. I think it was the result of a measuring error that was caught and compensated for but only in one instead of in two places where it mattered; a different error was in consequence of a misguided effort to add symmetricality. Both were total surprises to me at time when we couldn't go backward to fix the errors and now I'm married to the errors, stuck with 3 banks of lower cabs that cannot accept a pull-out unit of a sufficient size. Ah, me.
...See More
Etiquette (?) of making a lowball bid
Q
Comments (33)
"Lowball" is a cliché term and I don't really give it any thought. You're conducting a business transaction and one side wants to get way more than it's worth to someone and someone else wants to get it for way less than what someone else wants. Items are worth what someone will pay at the moment. If I offer someone a price and they're "offended" (yet another cliché term), then that's THEIR problem. I can't insult someone, and nobody can insult me. Only they or I can be insulted by our own feelings and actions. Too bad people don't understand that they're words. Just letters put together. But today we're so conditioned to take offense whenever we can. Normally, if something is fairly priced and it's something I want and am willing to pay the price, I don't haggle. I don't haggle for a hobby. I'll ask if they will take less, or offer something I'll pay, or both but it's only a couple negotiations. Then I'll walk or vice versa. When I've had garage sales or something I normally put absolute bargain prices on them and people can make offers and I'll accept or reject. Sometimes I'll tell them to stop back later and I'll probably take less then if it's early on and I'm thinking I should get more. At one sale when I was getting rid of one of my Crock-pots, it was brand new, in the box. I had received it as a gift and no way was I going to use it. Had already tossed the ones I used and replaced with Nesco Roasters. This was a LONG time ago now and I put a $5 price tag on it. Retail was about $40-$45 but I wanted to get rid of it. This lady starts whining "well, does it work?" I had just finished turning someone else down on an offer so she should have known I'm not going to play games. But I said it's brand new in the box as you can see the box hasn't even been opened! It SHOULD work since it's brand new, never opened so never used. Then she started with, "well... will you take TWO dollars for it?" I said no. I'll have more than $2 worth of fun smashing it with a sledge hammer and use the cord as a backup for something else. The cord alone will cost at least $10 to buy. "Will you take $2.50?? I couldn't resist. I told her it's at least a $40 unit and you know it and the price is going to $7.50 in exactly 30 seconds and reached for the masking tape and marker. Then she offers a check. I looked at her and wrote $7.50 on the masking tape and started tearing it off. She whipped out a fiver right quick. Then... as she was walking away, she asks... "If it doesn't work, can I bring it back?" I broke out laughing and said this ain't Wal*mart but you can bring it back. I won't give you your money back but feel free to bring it back. One guy was picking up some things and he just broke out laughing. Came up to pay me for the stuff and said "I like your style." A couple ladies who overheard it commented about how some people just don't want to pay anything do they? I just said I think for some it's just a hobby. And when their purchase was totaled I rounded it down for them and told them it's my "nice person discount".
...See More
elisalinscott
Original Author
9 years ago
thank you sophie and Patricia. I have professional plans drawn and the design is finished w/elevations except I want to move the stairs. The electrical and plumbing is not put in the design, yet. In my area, it seems builders don't need all the details to give a bid. And each of them take 2-4 weeks to come up with one. This is why I want to ask more than one at a time. What does "bid developments" mean? Design is unique, but not unusual if that makes sense.
delyanks
9 years ago
I'd have your plans finalized and get a cut sheet of all materials. I'd even pick out your fixtures now. You don't need an electrical, low voltage, HVAC, or plumbing plan but it is helpful. You can draw on the plan what you want and where. Make sure you draw it exactly as you want or they will hit you with expensive change orders. If you don't go into the bids with everything nailed down it will be hard to compare the bids apples to apples and you will end up paying more down the road on the low bid most likely.
elisalinscott thanked delyanks
elisalinscott
Original Author
9 years ago
what's a "cut sheet?"
delyanks
9 years ago
It's a list of all the materials and info on materials being used for your project.
elisalinscott thanked delyanks
User
9 years ago
The more complete your package is, the more accurate the estimate will be. My experience has been that the builder will fill in the blank with the lowest cost alternative in order to keep the estimate as low as possible. For example, my architect did not specify what kind of railing would be used on the stairway. In my mind I was thinking a welded steel industrial type look. The first builder to do an estimate assumed the stairway enclosed by sheetrock half-wall. Very much difference in price.

Also, your architect or designer should provide a good electrical plan including lighting. Again, if nothing is submitted, the builder will assume standard allowances which may not be what you want. A good lighting/electrical plan can be somewhat expensive. You may want something better than 6" cans plunked here and there and surface mount dome lights in the centers of the bedrooms.

We worked with the architect to eventually spec out all materials and fixtures etc to within 90% complete. We got two formal estimates and 3 ballpark estimates. (I believe some contractors gave ballparks because they were too busy already - they were quite high). There are still some unknown variables but manageable. So far the work is coming in according to the plan.

Good luck!
elisalinscott thanked User
User
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Oh, and as for how many...this was a long process. Longer than I expected honestly. I did not want to ask a whole bunch of people so I asked two, then when one came back with just a ballpark and not much enthusiasm for the project I asked two more, then one more. I went with the last one! So far a good decision. He was from a neighboring city. The ones closest to the land were the most expensive I found...and less likely to want to fix the contract.

Also call the references. People say they do this but they actually don't.
PRO
Property Serv, LLC
9 years ago
Hi we do both design and build. its not uncommon to get an average sq ft price for building an addition in my area.Once you know the average cost to build that will help you determine the sq footage you can afford. always add an additional 5K for each additional bathroom as a quide.
we usually give a number for design and engineering but its expected that that these plans once done may be bid on by other contractors.What usually happens if you like the relationship during the design process you will more likely want the same contractor to do the job because he has gained your confidence.
Ray.
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
9 years ago
I would get three bids. In fairness, let each person know that is what you are doing. I would also suggest that you have your plans nailed down pretty well or the contractors have to "fill in the blanks" as suggested above. You will have apples and oranges and will be no better off than where you are now. Electrical and HVAC are both big numbers so make sure you go ahead and have something specified for those - maybe not brand of HVAC units but know what efficiency rating you are willing to pay for and what is generally used in your area. Remember that bath fans and kitchen ventilation are part of HVAC and these are areas where you should not go cheap. Go ahead and do homework on really good quality, quiet fans. Doors, windows, siding and roofing are huge numbers and these should already be specified before getting bids. If each bidder does not get the same specification sheets, then you cannot compare the bids. Good luck and have fun.
elisalinscott thanked Brickwood Builders, Inc.
elisalinscott
Original Author
9 years ago
Hi Prop. Serv. We worked with a builder and we didn't like the relationship during the design process. Basically, the design is done but it still needs work and I would like to see it in a 3D program. So I found a couple of builders that have a 3D program, but I am wondering if I should as only one at a time for a bid or if I can ask both at the same time?
PRO
Brickwood Builders, Inc.
9 years ago
We do 3D work, but not unless paid for it. It is not part of the "free quote". It is a very time consuming task so I would guess that you will not get anyone to tackle that without an agreement with them and paying something for it.
elisalinscott thanked Brickwood Builders, Inc.
PRO
Property Serv, LLC
9 years ago
I agree with Deborah on that point, 3D takes time if you are willing to pay extra for it.its more important to nail down all the plans and changes first and finish the engineering before worrying about the 3D.Some software does do plans and 3D in one but not always.
PRO
User
9 years ago
With respect, you are not at a point to seek bids. Your design work is incomplete. You have changes that you want to make, and major portions of the projects have not been specified. You have several months of design development left with an architect to go before you are able to approach contractors for a build. If you approach them now, you will not be getting any useful information, and you risk alienating them when the project is better put together down the road. A floor plan is only 1/3 to 1/2 of a building plan. The framing plan, engineering for proper load, millwork specification, HVAC specifications and all the rest of the specifications are the other part of what home design services are all about..
elisalinscott thanked User
elisalinscott
Original Author
9 years ago
Girsh, I can't thank you enough in your time you took to detail your response to me. I wish I had this a year ago. This morning, I am meeting with a potential builder and your guidance is invaluable to me. I definitely feel I know how to provide structure at this meeting and specify my expectations. That brings relief in itself. Maybe now I can enjoy this process more.
PRO
GIRSH DEVELOPMENT INC
9 years ago
Hi Elisa, How did your meeting go with the builder?
PRO
User
9 years ago
I haven't run into this much lately. I agree with picking out everything. I have lost cabinet jobs on price and have had the customer mournfully come to me later stating they didn't get what they wanted from the "Other guy".
elisalinscott
Original Author
9 years ago
Hi Girsh, thank you for asking. It went very well. I felt more focused about what I was looking for in a builder and what to expect. He said he will give me a "preliminary estimate" in 3 weeks based on my wish list of finishes and the basic plan I have thus far. He made a date already to sit down and go over this estimate which is Dec. 2. He said he will also help met get into budget at this meeting, too. I met with a 2nd builder today and pretty much the same thing. So now I wait.
PRO
GIRSH DEVELOPMENT INC
9 years ago
I am glad it went well for you and you have gotten the focus you need. With the holidays and winter approaching (busy time), its not out of the ordinary to wait 3 weeks for an estimate. If you are happy with the contractor and he is willing to hold your hand throughout the estimating and plan completion cycle, you have done well. Best of luck and success!
elisalinscott thanked GIRSH DEVELOPMENT INC
elisalinscott
Original Author
9 years ago
Grish, what did you mean by "willing" to hold my hand throughout the estimating and plan completion cycle? Is that not something I should expect from a builder? this is important as I thought I could rely on the builder for this. thanks again for the advice.
User
9 years ago
That's not a builder's role. That would be the fox guarding the henhouse. That role of advocate is traditionally filled by a full service architect.
User
9 years ago
Except when the architect and builder are working together to maximize revenue.
PRO
GIRSH DEVELOPMENT INC
9 years ago
elisalinscott, what I meant was that it seems as if your plans need some more significant work. Many builders would not invest the time to guide you through this process and would rather wait until you have all of your material ready. Most of the time I tend to take the opposite approach. I would rather be able to help guide the client in the completion of their plans and show the client my knowledge, credibility and desire to built their home. The architect is supposed to produce the plans per the client's design intent. However, it often helps ot have a builder with field experience to comment on cost and potential complexity of part of the design. Even though something may look great, and accomplish design intent, it may blow the budget. This is where, very often, the builder, working together with the architect and client, can add tremendous value to the project.

I think it is a good trait to have as a builder. To that end, if the builder you like is going to expand that time and energy before construction begins, it is a good thing.
elisalinscott thanked GIRSH DEVELOPMENT INC

Proper etiquette when asking builders for a bid?

GIRSH DEVELOPMENT INC

Comments (24)

User

Patricia Colwell Consulting

Related Discussions

elisalinscott
Original Author

delyanks

elisalinscott
Original Author

delyanks

User

User

Property Serv, LLC

Brickwood Builders, Inc.

elisalinscott
Original Author

Brickwood Builders, Inc.

Property Serv, LLC

User

elisalinscott
Original Author

GIRSH DEVELOPMENT INC

User

elisalinscott
Original Author

GIRSH DEVELOPMENT INC

elisalinscott
Original Author

User

User

GIRSH DEVELOPMENT INC

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Proper etiquette when asking builders for a bid?

Comments (24)

Related Discussions

elisalinscottOriginal Author

elisalinscottOriginal Author

elisalinscottOriginal Author

elisalinscottOriginal Author

elisalinscottOriginal Author

elisalinscottOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

elisalinscott
Original Author

elisalinscott
Original Author

elisalinscott
Original Author

elisalinscott
Original Author

elisalinscott
Original Author

elisalinscott
Original Author