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jessbook

New Porcelain Countertop Hairline Fracture :(

3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago

We just recently renovated our home. The central feature is a 9” by 5” island with a porcelain stone Waterfall countertop. We have lived with it for 3 months. Yesterday morning we woke up to find a hairline crack, approx 3” long, across the island. It looks like someone slipped a pairing knife from the corner of the sink to the end of the island. No chips. It’s a slight crescent shape. The supplier says they don’t warranty stone after it leaves their shop. The manufacturer says they don’t warranty because they don’t know “what we did to cause it” and they’ve never heard of this happening. The repair guy says he sees it all the time and it can’t be fixed because it’s porcelain. The contractor is spinning.

why did this happen out of the blue?

who should be taking responsibility for this?

what do we do other than cry and vomit from this?

It cost us just under $20,000 CAD for this island. Its the central feature of our open concept main floor.

Any tips or thoughts are appreciated!!




Comments (67)

  • 3 years ago

    Do not pay out that remaining 10%

    See how this plays out first.

    jessbook thanked chispa
  • 3 years ago

    This is fabricator error. Follow the money. What brand product is this? Where was it sourced? What’s the chain of custody here? Did the builder pay the fabricator? Did he buy the slab and hire some unknown to fabricate? Did you pay anyone directly? Still too many unknowns.

    jessbook thanked User
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  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    @Louise Smith The crack could affect structural integrity. @jessbook I concur with the others who have said that inside corner should have been created with a more forward-reaching curved shape. I understand this is difficult because porcelain is used with a laminated edge most often, as you have here, which makes the recommended radius with lamination virtually impossible to achieve, as best I understand. The better option would have been to go with a through-body porcelain top which could have been polished rather than using a laminated edge. Then you could have gotten those radiuses right, but you would have had no coverage for a subtop, so the subtop would have needed to have been integrated into your cabinetry which it is too late to do well or cheaply by now.

    Sharp corners create stress points from which material that is brittle like porcelain, Neolith, and quartzite, can tend to fracture. There is at least one company producing through-body porcelain for countertops on the market right now, but it could be hard to source. I would recommend withholding your 10% final payment and going with a different countertop surface entirely, like quartz that may get you the closest look to what you have now.

    jessbook thanked Aglitter
  • 3 years ago

    You can get that look in quartz with the right fabricator.

    jessbook thanked dan1888
  • 3 years ago

    Thank you everyone. The fabricator‘s repair guy came by today and said he can’t fix it. The contractor wants to try replacing just the top piece. The idea of this giant slab coming off our custom made cabinets, on brand new floors, near our kitchen millwork, and even through our new front door makes me sick to my stomach.


    As for the final 10% - what can I do? There’s no way I can pay for a broken island and the unimaginable damage this repair might do to my home. I’m trying to keep the world in perspective - it’s just a counter - but it was so nice. And cost so much. And we saved up 10 years. And we moved out for 1 year. And I just want this to be over.


    Thanks everyone for your info. We are going to give them a week to do something and if they don’t roll the ball then we will go elsewhere and use the 10% to pay for it.


    wish me luck.

  • 3 years ago

    jessbook- It’s not difficult to protect from any damage to floors, millwork, etc., with removal work. Don’t let that discourage you. This situation is understandably disturbing, but don’t let your worst imaginings get in the way of an attempted replacement fix.

    jessbook thanked kudzu9
  • PRO
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    This failure didn't start at the sink. It started in an air conditioned office on paper. The fabricator should have been the "goalie", the last chance to stop the metaphorical puck. No sintered manufacturer allows corner radii that tight. Find your manufacturer's instructions, show it to your fabricator, and demand replacement.

    Were this stone, estone, or solid surface, I'd finish the break, decontaminate, and glue it back together, however, with the too-tight radii on the other corners, another failure is nearly inevitable. This top will continue to self-destruct until that sink cutout is re-fabricated properly. (That front rail could be 3", not the 6" fat boy they gave you.)

    Roberto Colonatti has published a sintered fabrication manual. Do whatever he says; he's the best in the world.

  • PRO
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Furthermore, I'll bet the failure was caused by an insufficiently supported cantilever. Mean ole' Mr. Gravity pulled and pulled for 3 months, until the sag he caused made the top snap at the sink corner. Guaranteed. A 6" drop edge is decorative only, not structural. The sink corner is nearly perfectly centered in the span where there was the most tension. The crack relieved the tension. Fabricator/designer error again; no blaming the material.

    Set a 10' straight edge over the cantilevered 6" drop edge and I'll bet you'll see the sag.

    No saving this mess; it's a do-over.

  • PRO
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Swami Joe predicts the future of your waterfall miters if the sink hadn't blown first. They're going next, I promise. Unless he runs into proper engineering and execution, Mr. Gravity will not be denied. jessbook, your top would have failed without a sink cutout, it just would have taken longer. Best that it happened now while you're still sitting on 10%.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    "As for the final 10% - what can I do?"


    For a top that big and this much money, I'd lawyer up. Everyone from the pencil pusher to the fabricator failed you. All didn't know what they didn't know. You have to pay when that happens.

    Be a jerk about it if you have to; eventually they'll thank you for the tuition you made them pay, I promise.

  • 3 years ago

    ^^In line with Joe's comment suggesting that you lawyer up, also start thinking about how you are framing this issue with the contractors and service providers you're dealing with. Think about the piece of this that they are responsible for, and what it takes for them to make it right. Adding in the emotional/extraneous details (i.e. "we are mortgaged to our eyeballs" and "we moved out for 1 year") is not likely to help further your case at this point. (It might at some point in the future. But not right now.)

  • PRO
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I retrofitted the pictured Karran 540 sink into a Corian top and got a callback about the slight pictured contamination around the hard seam perimeter.

    The customers are delighted with a replacement Kohler 3821. You get a spankie sometimes, even after 30 years in the business. Some are bigger than others. I had to do the same job twice and get paid once. They do too.

    No 10%, no lawyer, no argument, no wondering what to do. A phone call and and a day is all it took. Then they get to brag on the interwebby as to how they did the right thing. Potential customers don't care nearly as much about your pretty portfolio as they do about how you behave when the job derails. Better be able to brag.


    jessbook thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • PRO
    3 years ago

    ^ Excellent context.

    jessbook thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • 3 years ago

    Yes. It’s a thing. I’m really trying. More discussion today. They’re trying to say the ground must have shifted or the hardwood flooring must be contracting - which negates the warranty. But the basement was not altered at all. The house is 85 years old. We have been here for 10. The island is square between two cinder block foundation walls. Also, i can’t imagine new hardwood flooring being the culprit when our house temperature is regulated. And hardwood? Really? Does anyone not put a new island on new hardwood? Isn’t that very common? Makes no sense.


    we are worried about the crack spreading and causing more damage. Does anyone know how long before the crack causes danger to our floors, cabinets and, oh ya, kids? We want to be reasonable and give them time to sort it out but we don’t want to screw ourselves over in the process. Trying to mitigate the damage sustained. I figure we give them until next week to make a plan and if not then we give our 10% to a new vetted and qualified fabricator and hope that he can just replace the top piece instead of the entire thing. 🙏

  • 3 years ago

    Latest update. Doesn’t appear to be any sagging. It’s well supported underneath.


    chain of command:

    we pay contractor & designer separately (no relation between the two). Designer is well regarded. Contractor is younger (early 30’s) so less experienced.

    -contractor hired fabricator

    -Fabricator sourced material with help from designer

    -designer picked colour and material but she’s never worked with this contractor or fabricator before.

    -we chose the contractor. The contractor chose the fabricator. the fabricator purchased the material.


    we will give it 1 week and then go to a different fabricator to replace it.


    Question: does the shape of a crack determine its cause? If it were a result of settling which we really cant imagine, would it have a look? Would there be other indicators In the house?


  • 3 years ago

    Following the $: we pay contractor. Contractor pays fabricator. fabricator pays supplier.


    We pay designer separately. I really don’t hold her accountable on this one. She’s been designing porcelain countertops in kitchens for five years since it became a trend. She just typically uses a different fabricator.

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    In my opinion, this is an excellent time to go back with all quartz. Porcelain has some properties quartz doesn't, particularly much higher heat resistance, but porcelain is prone to cracking and chipping--if not now, then later. I would not consider 5 years' experience a long enough time to truly prove the longevity of porcelain in homes that can shift over time or encounter other point-of-strain uses. Do some searching for posts in the Houzz forum regarding porcelain countertops, and you will see many people, both professional designers and homeowners, who generally warn to prepare for heartbreak if specifying porcelain for a remodel or new build.

  • 3 years ago

    If you're going with a second fabricator I'd use the one your designer has used in the past.

  • PRO
    3 years ago

    "Question: does the shape of a crack determine its cause?"


    No, at least not in sintered. A solid surface crack from heat can distort the material, making it impossible to pull the crack back together even if you finish the break.


    "If it were a result of settling which we really cant imagine, would it have a look?"


    No.


    "Would there be other indicators In the house?"


    An 80-year-old home is probably done settling. I got called to repair a Corian top on a new build years ago; the tops were out of level. The place looked familiar. Then it hit me. I had installed the tops and when I put them in, they were dead level. The new house had shrunk enough to throw my tops off. It can happen, but not 80 years later.


    jessbook, it seems like you're searching to substantiate the blame-shifting you're getting from the people who screwed up. Even if there isn't any deflection, your sink has a forbidden 90* corner. That is end-of-discussion fabricator error.



  • PRO
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Silverlined:


    Sintered is prone to cracking, but only when improperly fabricated or installed. Find me a single instance where there was a spontaneous crack in the middle of a properly fabricated top please.


    I'm sick to death of people inappropriately blaming materials for the failures of designers, fabricators, and installers. When the engineered stone backsplash is scorched, you don't blame Cambria, you blame the designer who didn't read and comprehend the appliance manufacturer's installation instructions. No, people see the scorch and want to blame the guy who stuck it to the wall. These people can and do draw anything.


    Same thing here. Someone didn't read and comprehend the sintered top manufacturer's fabrication instructions, drew a 90* sink corner, and the fabricator, who should have know better, followed the drawing instead of the instructions.


    I've watched videos of Roberto Colonatti sitting in the middle of porcelain tops that were supported on each end by saw horses. I've watched him pick up porcelain tops on the flat which is the first thing you learn on your first day at the countertop shop to never, ever, do. To a countertop man, this supernaturalism.


    Let's stop blaming the material, particularly in this instance. This is human, not material, failure.

  • PRO
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    "We pay designer separately. I really don’t hold her accountable on this one."


    Let me see what she drew and specified please. And the brand of your sintered top.

    jessbook thanked Joseph Corlett, LLC
  • 3 years ago

    Thanks guys. @Joseph Corlett, LLC - I emailed Colonetti to get his opinion and he emailed back right away. What a nice guy! He sent me a spec sheet which I will attach. @User - I looked on his website - he does do square sinks - it’s just how the stone is cut at the corners thats different.


    The GC picks his own sub trades. The only one we refused to use was the millworker because it was our designer’s custom designs. So we went with her for better communication. He uses a fabricator that has a good reputation. They just also happen to be friends. We got a second quote for the stone that was twice the cost. We were going to get a third quote and the GC said if we did that he would not take any responsibility for any other fabricator and would still demand a management fee. (Remember we were mid-construction and mid-pandemic at this point and did not want to hold up the project.).


    Since the fabricator had a good reputation we were comfortable proceeding. We wanted to make the GC accountable for everything. we didn’t want to start bringing in outside trades and then have him blame them for everything / pointing fingers.


    The designer really just said “here’s the sink, here’s the design, use this material” - the rest was for the GC and fabricator to do. At one point the fabricator warned us not to go any bigger - it was supposed to be 2 inches wider - he said it would compromise the integrity of the counter - so we said “don’t do anything to compromise the integrity“. We said we would go on his advice and make the counter as big as he’s comfortable to go. So, no one was pushing this guy outside of his comfort zone. Quite the opposite. When he said “don’t do it” - we listened. We had this for the reveals in our fireplace too - also porcelain - looks beautiful.


    so that’s the update. We are holding the GC accountable. We will give him to the end of the week to make a plan. If we don’t hear a plan, we will take our money to a different fabricator. We are not worried about being sued. There’s a lot of downside to law suits so will only go down that road if someone else leads us there. We would rather make sure we understand what went wrong and act reasonably. If we have to go to another fabricator, I feel confident we have a strong case for not paying for this countertop.


    Again. Thank you so much. I really appreciate all of your insights!



  • 3 years ago



  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    It sounds like @jessbook is anchored to a re-make of porcelain, so I'll limit this reply to porcelain since other material comparisons have already been covered in previous posts. I was asked to provide examples of spontaneous porcelain failure in the middle of a slab, which is not primarily what I meant in my post referring to cracking and chipping, so I would like to clarify, as follows.

    Starting with chipping, most porcelain installations include a mitered edge for finishing, including the design @jessbook has selected. The way this is done is by angling the edges of each porcelain piece and adhering them together to form the miter which is, as best I understand, the correct method. It is at these mitered corners that failure is most commonly seen. During my own recent research for kitchen countertop materials, I visited 3 different porcelain countertop suppliers who had showroom displays of porcelain countertop material installed with mitered edges. All 3 showroom installations presented chipping at those edges. i was told by several sales reps that this is a problem they commonly see even with properly installed porcelain countertops, that those mitered edges are prone to chipping. The solution to this problem, which is something I discussed at length with a Levantina rep and their recommended porcelain fabricator, is to skip the mitered edge and polish the thin porcelain edge. Most porcelain used for countertops on the market at this time does not carry the pattern of the material throughout the body of the tile, so this would create a non-patterned edge. My local Levantina showroom features a display utilizing this polished edge method, and it would be an acceptable look to most consumers depending on the edge coloration of the particular brand of porcelain used. A couple of companies are pioneering through-body, also known as full body, porcelain for countertops, and utilizing one of those brands would be ideal if a polished edge is desired and thus the risk of chipping minimized.

    The second risk of which I am most aware is cracking during fabrication, transportation, or installation. I live in a metropolitan area with a population of around 8 million people, and while visiting most of the major slab yards in my area, I ran across only 2 names of companies whom the reps at these yards recommended as having the equipment, skill, and experience to guarantee a successful processing of porcelain. One of those fabricators was recommended many times above the other by multiple yards, but both were considered the top porcelain fabricators in my area. In a metro this large, of course many fabricators are taking on porcelain jobs, but the point here is that whenever the topic of porcelain was brought up at the various slab yards which I visited, I was usually warned to "only use this fabricator" if I selected porcelain because of the repeated failures due to cracking that are encountered by many fabricators without the appropriate equipment and experience. One of my local yards even sells porcelain insurance to protect against cracking concerns, and reps at this same yard cautioned me against porcelain due to the problems they were familiar with across many installations, including edge failure with their own showroom display. Granite and quartz did not carry these same warnings, based on my experience, and many fabricators were recommended to me as suitable for these other materials.

    Concerning cracking and chipping post-installation, so many factors would play a role in the conditions leading to this. When I think of cracking during usage, yes, some of those cracks may be due to poor installation practices such as undersupported areas that may come under strain, sometimes due to a person standing or sitting on the counter which would exacerbate an unlevel or undersupported countertop. Most porcelain countertop materials are not rated for an extended edge greater than 2 inches in depth, so overhang design becomes a special issue with porcelain. Cabinetry and countertops must also be shimmed in a secure manner to prevent a shifting of loads. The types of shims used and how they are applied are both important factors. Shims can become loose or slide out in time, leading to countertop failures. This would go beyond the fabricator's work and into the realm of the cabinetry installer's work as well. Porcelain would be somewhat more prone to cracking under strain from loosening shims than many other materials. I have also heard of cracking happening around plumbing openings where holes weren't sufficiently rounded off at the edges and fixtures have been over-tightened, which again would fall beyond the realm of the fabricator and into that of the plumber.

    As to whether an 80-year-old house would have foundation shifting issues, please let me contribute my own experience that I have lived in two different homes over the past few decades that have had ongoing impacts to foundation stability in areas that previously did not have such issues. One of those was in an area of the central USA that has begun to be impacted by widespread earthquakes due to hydraulic fracturing. I lived through several of those earthquakes that were the largest in the history of the state and may have contributed to the appearance of cracks in floor tile around that time in the home in which I was living. The second home was stable for decades until failures in a nearby retaining wall began to emerge, leading to large-scale house movement. We don't know the situation in which @jessbook finds herself concerning these or other foundation factors, but it would be wise to thoroughly evaluate all these issues and any others that may apply before moving forward.

    While composing this comment, I went back to my list of bookmarked links collated during research for my own recent kitchen renovation, expecting to find more of the multiple posts that I had read here at Houzz and elsewhere around the web about large-format porcelain problems. To my surprise, I had saved very few porcelain-related links, and this is probably due to being concerned early in my research about the issues I was coming across during my reading and talking to suppliers, so I crossed off porcelain early. It's a stunning surface and one that I was visually drawn to during my visit to slab yards. Porcelain more closely mimics marble than many of the quartz products available, in my opinion, and the superior heat resistance compared to quartz is enviable. Had I hired a designer for my renovation, I would certainly have expected the designer to provide a comparison of the risks of porcelain to other types of natural or engineered stone, so it is understandably infuriating that @jessbook was not made more aware of the potential by any number of people along the way, starting with the designer.

    jessbook thanked Aglitter
  • 3 years ago

    Thank you @Aglitter for your lengthy reply. We are nowhere near any fault lines so earthquakes are no concern. We also have no foundation issues at all. Our basement was redone and reinforced 6 years ago with no shifting. We were told by our structural engineer that we have enough reinforcement to build 10 houses up. Also, the soil in our neighbourhood is clay - very solid and practically impermeable. There are no cracks, no shifting - nothing to point to ground settling of any kind.


    It sounds like it points to fabrication. It’s very specialized. We don’t know what their background is with porcelain but we expect this will be a big lesson to them. Thank you for your input!



  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    @jessbook That's great you have had reinforcement done and a history of no foundation movement which will hopefully serve you well for the lifetime of this remodel. I would like to clarify that the earthquakes where I lived at the time had to do with the practice of hydraulic fracturing in the oil and natural gas industry that caused the onset of large earthquakes, a devastating phenomenon for those affected by it in that region.

    Not that you need another issue to think about right now, but I would like to mention for your future reference that while clay is solid, expansive clay can be reactive to moisture changes by shrinking or expanding more so than other types of soils. This is something that you will probably want to keep in mind in case you ever have any dramatic weather pattern changes in your area. For instance, I grew up in a humid, sub-tropical environment of the US that averages 50 inches of rainfall per year, which is nearly double what the average is across the rest of the country. You would think that soil moisture content would never be a problem there due to the generous rainfall. However, this area went through a period of rare drought that dramatically affected the moisture content of the soil and resulted in new soil and landscaping issues for homeowners. If you don't already have a watering system in place for your foundation, it might be something to consider if you ever have big weather pattern changes like that, whether more or less rainfall than usual, to protect your new porcelain countertops and other renovation upgrades.

    jessbook thanked Aglitter
  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    How did jessbook finally solve the problem? We've encountered similar problem. Hairline crack starting at the edge of stove top, on a just installed porcelain tile.

  • 3 years ago

    If you selected porcelain, you needed to have prepared for heartbreak. It's just not a reliable long-term countertop solution for most working kitchens according to my research, given the propensity to cracks and chips. Replacing with quartz is probably your best solution.

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    My attention was drawn back to this thread by someone liking a previous comment, and I would like to add that since the exchange posted above, I have learned that clay-based soils are notoriously unstable. Swimming pool manufacturers who build in areas where clay soils are common must use additional steel reinforcement to keep gunite pools from cracking in-ground. This should be a consideration for someone with clay soil who intends to put a fragile countertop like porcelain into a large format area like a kitchen. Bathrooms with smaller countertops, or wall installations, typically have higher success rates with porcelain than kitchens because the stress factors are lower, not merely due to foundation issues but due to myriad other fabrication and installation concerns for larger porcelain slabs.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    The idea that this countertop crack was caused by shifting soil is far-fetched.

  • 2 years ago

    Having lived in a shifting home, the idea of cracks anywhere isn't remote to me personally, but I agree the OP here probably was dealing with installation issues.

  • 2 years ago

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC I came into this thread as we encountered a similar crack. This is a 4yo countertop surface. The hairline crack is about 6'' long, and currently very thin and barely noticeable. Do you think it is probably also due to the 90 degree cut? The countertop material is Dekton. Do you have some recommendation on how to deal with this in the longer term? Any possible way to prevent it from getting worse without replacing it? Thanks in advance!


  • PRO
    2 years ago

    "Do you think it is probably also due to the 90 degree cut?"

    Yes.


    "The countertop material is Dekton. Do you have some recommendation on how to deal with this in the longer term?"


    Any possible way to prevent it from getting worse without replacing it?

    '

    Not really. Maybe some tinted superglue to reduce contamination.

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    "Dekton" tells me pretty much all I need to know about why a crack might be emerging, although the 90-degree cut here speeded up the time to damage for sure. It is so unfortunate that this material is marketed as being super strong, while in reality it is prone to chipping and cracking. I feel sorry for consumers who have been misled by Dekton's marketing approach and who were unable to access the bevy of poor reviews before installing this in a project. Even Consumer Reports found Dekton to be prone to damage from impact in its testing. If there is any possibility of getting the material repaired or replaced with something else under warranty, I would strongly consider it.

  • PRO
    2 years ago

    "Even Consumer Reports found Dekton to be prone to damage from impact in its testing."


    The Consumer Reports test was fatally flawed. Their test piece had no proper substrate. That's like test driving a car with wheels and no tires, then complaining that it's making marks in the road.

  • 2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    CR tests all its countertops the same way. None cracked like Dekton did. Dekton does have strength in other ways, but it tends to be brittle, as I understand. Anyone who does even a cursory search for Dekton reviews is going to find people with cracking in their installations. I've seen really beautiful showroom Dekton projects, and this material seems to be particularly favored for outdoor kitchens due to weather resistance, so it has a market if someone has a particularly secure design that would favor Dekton's profile.

    Here is the exact quote from CR: "Our test results: Dekton resisted damage from heat, stains, chopping and cutting, scoring excellent in these tests, and was very good at resisting abrasion. But in our impact tests, pieces of the edges chipped off, and Dekton cracked into two pieces on samples that were 2 centimeters thick, the manufacturer-recommended thickness. Our impact tests simulate what could happen if a heavy pot fell from a shelf or pot rack up to 2 feet above the counter. None of the other 13 materials we tested cracked this way." https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2015/06/dekton-countertop-cracks-in-consumer-reports-tests/index.htm

    I cannot find the additional results at the moment, but it seems I also read somewhere that Dekton also chipped in lightweight impact tests, like a pair of scissors landing point down from a medicine cabinet height, which would not involve any substrate support in determining results at that weight. The edge chipping noted in test results would also not be related to any substrate support since the substrate doesn't typically extend right up to the edge.

  • 2 years ago

    Thanks for the input!

  • last year

    I stumbled across this thread while searching for information on issues associated with the manufacture of quartz. Australia is considering bannig production entirely because of silicosis, which may become the next mesothelioma battle.


    So, I'm looking for a good alternative for durable, hardworking countertops for my new build. I was wondering if porcelain would be a good alternative, but now I'm left wondering what else to consider. Not wild about granite because of issues a number of friends have had with theirs.


    I'm interested in possibly installing an Invisicook "invisible" induction unit under one section, so I want something that could work with that.


    Thoughts?

  • 7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    @EA Yes Quartz is on it's way out in Australia, and NZ has already made changes as well. Porcelain is the only countertop you can use with Invisacook, and the cracking issues mentioned in this thread are unfortunate if you don't know the full story behind the information. Porcelain slab is actually not the correct term to call them - they are panels/slabs or slabs/panels, and when you call them a slab and install them like other slabs on the market - you get chips and cracks. They are a relatively new product category in the tile industry, installed by fabricators or highly skilled & trained tile setters. There is more training on installing these products than any other countertop material in the industry, and they are installed all around the world, and manufactured in many countries. Since they are not the most popular material on the market in the US, a few bad installations have really been amplified. Reguarding your mention of silicosis - who do you think started those campaigns against porcelain and have been able to spread those rumors to boost their material as being superior. In reality, on paper it's very clear that Quartz is not the best material performance wise or visually.

  • PRO
    7 months ago

    " it's very clear that Quartz is not the best material performance wise or visually."


    True enough and 50-year-old Corian beats them all.

  • 7 months ago

    Here is a great article which answers a lot of questions in this thread. It's quite long https://architessa.com/blogs/blog/expert-guide-on-porcelain-slabs-panels

  • PRO
    7 months ago

    jt:


    Nice article, but they conveniently forgot to add Corian to their comparison chart.

  • 7 months ago

    Corian is a brand. Are you implying it has it's own material category? The designs on the corian website look dated to me. I can't imageine folks looking for natural stone or porcelain would consider corian instead with those designs.

  • 7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    I always try to steer clients away from porcelain countertops. Best suitable for vertical applications and not flat surface.

  • 7 months ago

    That is unfortunate Julee and just not true. You should read this guide - https://architessa.com/blogs/blog/expert-guide-on-porcelain-slabs-panels

  • 7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    In the interest of education, I read the article posted by jt and found that the same porcelain fabrication and installation concerns discussed here and elsewhere are acknowledged and discussed at length in the article. It is not my intention to inflame the topic. I merely would like to point out that the types of installations suited to porcelain vary in significant ways from the types of installations and preparations you would typically see for other countertop materials.

    To simply say that hiring an experienced fabricator will resolve all porcelain issues simplifies the problem. Much prep work goes in to even making a porcelain installation possible, and that is usually done by a different crew than the fabricator which therefore introduces strict quality control questions (substrate prep, cabinetry leveling, etc.). Porcelain may also not be suited to some designs such as those requiring a large expanse of space or a deep overhang. Substrates usually used for porcelain aren't 100% inflexible. Also, the article suggested using epoxy at the peak of a mitered porcelain edge to prevent chipping which may be an unacceptable aesthetic for some consumers.

    In my own kitchen renovation experience living in a large metropolitan area, I found that securing the desired level of skill in hired labor was an impossibility despite lengthy research and vetting. Many USA customers reside in smaller towns than I do where the question of highly skilled labor becomes even more difficult.

    Yes, porcelain surpasses many other countertop materials in performance in many ways, but the application of it in homes in the USA still has a long way to go. Consumers here who wish to pay for a lower-risk installation should probably still be looking at alternatives to porcelain for large countertop spans and overhangs. A bathroom or kitchenette installation would probably be fine.

    Edge retention for mitered porcelain is still a major concern. Using through-body porcelain with a polished edge (no miter) is one solution. Undermount sink installation also becomes challenging with porcelain, but some sink solutions are on the market to help with that, such as kitchen sinks that extend all the way upward to the top edge of the surface. Top-mount or vessel sinks may also be used to solve the problem, usually a solution more for bathrooms than kitchens.

  • 7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    @Aglitter You and I both know that there is no such thing as a foolproof installation. The article does not simply state that that hiring an experienced fabricator will resolve all porcelain issues, it actually uses that fact to frame the entire topic, and shake out misinformation, that is all over the internet, and througout this thread. No material has a built-in stupidity clause on damange - and if anybody is jumping off a countertop and it cracks then let's hope they have some insurance to cover that. Although there are a fair number of videos of the most famous porcelain slab/panel installer in the world doing this, but let's not go there. As a whole, the tile industry has done a tremendous amount of work to ensure the material is installed properly. Whether this prudence will pay off is yet to be determined, but if you are paying attention to the countertop industry, the most recent news from the other side of the pond is that there are fabricators and stakeholders in AU are actualy refusing to fabricate, and transport Quartz to take a stance against how dangerous it is for them, apparently even with the best PPE. Trends all start in AU and make their way around the world so it would be unusual for this to not affect the US at some point. Innovation in hard surfaces happens quite fast, so this will help the Quartz industry tremendously on fixing their big problem, but it will also help the tile industry as well with some of your mentioned jobsite specific design wants. Only time will resolve increasing the number of trained professionals in less populous regions.

  • 7 months ago
    last modified: 7 months ago

    For the rest of you who are not yet committed to a single viewpoint and are still researching countertop materials including porcelain, with its risk for cracks and chips in particular, please note that the USA countertop industry has been providing thick, slab-style countertops en masse for more than two decades now, but satisfactorily skilled labor in 2023 for installation of slab countertops is still not always easy to secure everywhere, even as I found living in a large metro. Much as we wish time to be a cure-all, it is not always.

    Thinner porcelain requires different preparation, fabrication, transportation, and installation skills and equipment than thicker slabs, and I only knew of two fabrication companies in my area with recommendations of being reliable porcelain technicians from the high-end slab yards in my area during my recent renovation. It is difficult to predict if or when the USA will match pace with what is needed for quality, widespread, large-format porcelain usage--since even the labor force for thicker slab installs seems to be lagging.

    I considered many different types of countertop materials for my renovation, and quartz was near the last on my list, nor did I select it. Porcelain was a material I strongly considered and researched but was counterindindicated for my application. My installation included an apron-front, undermount sink. My cabinetry supplier did not specialize in providing substrate support. The countertop was more than three feet in depth at some points including a large overhang. My home's foundation had a history of shifting despite several rounds of repair.

    I am aware that quartz is losing popularity for countertops in many countries and that porcelain usage is on the rise as a replacement. Does that mean it is the best choice for USA consumers who want to be on the leading edge of design? Not necessarily; so much depends on the size of the application, the edge finish chosen, and the labor support available.

    It would take a whole chart of pros and cons to adequately cover other choices, but stainless steel, butcher block, Abet Laminati Stratificato HPL, resilient marbles like Danby, soapstone, and even Corian such as one of Houzz's regular contributors likes to promote are all materials that an avid researcher should consider if also considering porcelain. Some of those materials won't do as well around water which may mean selecting a custom-designed, drop-in sink application or a mix of countertop materials. Some kitchens may be more for show than use which could also dictate the selection.