"We both get our hands slapped for being sloppy. Normally, the word "doctor" in a health context is used for physicians. Me, I didn't check enough.

Her CV on Linkedin is very generic and unprofessional. The Dr Phil affiliation should be a red flag, to me that says she's an entertainer rather than an expert."

I can't imagine how you can say someone with that amount of education is not an expert. Also, she has earned the credential of doctor within the medical field. The medical community is loaded with PhD's and they are addressed as doctor.

There is nothing wrong with being ambitious, popular (successful, delivering results) and consequently achieving fame. I believe her success is a result of her wanting to reach as many people as she can as a health and fitness practitioner and being good at what she does - not someone whose goal is simply one of seeking financial gain and glory, as you suggest, having no real knowledge, capability or credibility.

I have listened to many of her presentations on PBS and find her to be highly intelligent and educated, very articulate, thorough, and not anything less than polished and professional.

She is obviously a woman driven by a passion for her work, research and in making a difference in the lives of as many people as she can. I commend her. Besides, what she teaches is leading edge, what the newest, most advanced scientific research is finally acknowledging and discovering about the connection between our food, our gut and our health.

If someone doesn't care to incorporate or give credibility to her work and recommendations for an anti-inflammatory diet that promotes gut health and weight loss because something in her career path turns them off, there are many other practitioners, including physicians, who are delivering the same message - food as medicine - for weight loss, disease prevention/treatment/management and gut and brain health. Of course, they too have written books and speak to wide audiences to deliver their message, which is how they and their work becomes accessible to us.

Some other scientists interested in and promoting food as medicine: Dr. Perlmutter (neurologist) and Dr. Tanzi (neuroscientist and geneticist), Dr. Fuhrman (MD), Dr. Hyman (MD, Deepak Chopra (MD), Dr. Steven Masley (cardiologist).

Cadmium poisoning masquerades as MS. In fact, it is difficult to tell the two apart unless specific tests are made to rule out cadmium.

Snookums, I agree with you about JJ. I have her sugar impact diet and cookbook! Jem, I'm going to look into cadmium, thanks. I bought Perlmutter's Brain Maker and Terry Wahls' book on Amazon last night. Also continuing to read Grain Brain. There is hope!!

I have MS. I was diagnosed in 1988. and I've learned many things. First and most importantly every case is different. Support your friend on her journey, but remember it is her journey and she must decide when and where to go.

Terry Wahls -- I've seen her Ted talk on YouTube, and her dietary changes seem to be working quite well for her. I think she's combined dietary changes with some electrical stimulation of some sort -- should be detailed in that book you ordered.

"Doctor" is a title but for PhDs, it's not a noun. So you would refer or address a researcher as Dr. Anderson, but if you call someone "a doctor" (small d), that implies a physician. I won't argue about it.

"She is obviously a woman driven by a passion for her work, research"

At what academic institution does she do research? I don't think that's what she does at all. As I suggested, her CV is (I think) intentionally vague.

Serious academics wouldn't stand for the brash website she has nor spend their time doing what she does. Her endorsements are from fellow public personalities, not scientists. Oh, and don't miss the opportunity to shop for her personal products on her website.

Don't be fooled in thinking she's something that she's not.

I checked PubMed to see if anybody named J.J. Virgin had been associated with any of the articles, research papers, single/double blind testing, etc. (I think they have something like 22 million entries in the health/science field), and came up empty-handed. But maybe I missed something.

I don't see where she has a doctorate in anything. She lists a lot of schools, but its unclear if & when she attended or graduated from them.

As a personal corollary, there's a well known woman who has both books & products in all the major health food stores. In a fairly recent newspaper interview, she claimed that she graduated with a degree in biochemistry from the University of California-Berkeley. On a whim I called their Alumni Office to confirm, they checked their database & told me that although she attended that school, she never graduated. A further check of yearbooks indicated that she completed freshman & sophomore years, and apparently dropped out. BTW, she calls herself Dr. & claims a PhD after her name. Her doctorate only seems to be from a diploma mill, which the Nevada Attorney General managed to run out of that state, and which moved to Southern California under a "religious" auspices. which makes it more difficult for the State of California to touch. I found that in the alternate health field, there's a lot of people like her out there. Buyer Beware.

"Doctor"
is a title and for PhDs, it's an adjective but not a noun. So you would refer
or address a researcher as Dr. Anderson, but if you call someone "a
doctor" (small d), that implies a physician. I won't argue about it.”

I have checked a number of sources and see no validity to your
claim that the use of the word ‘doctor’ is restricted to a noun referring to
M.D.’s or an adjective when referring to Ph.D.s.

Merriam-Webster

doctor

noun doc·tor \ˈdäk-tər\

Simple
Definition of doctor

: a
person who is skilled in the science of medicine : a person who is trained and
licensed to treat sick and injured people

the doctor :
the place where a doctor works

: a
dentist

Full
Definition of doctor

1. 1a : an eminent theologian declared
   a sound expounder of doctrineby the Roman
   Catholic Church —called also doctor
   of the church b :
   a learned or authoritative teacher c : a person who has earned one of
   the highest academic degrees (as a PhD) conferred by a university d : a person awarded an honorary doctorate (as
   an LLD or Litt D) by a college or university
2. 2a : a person skilled or
   specializing in healing arts; especially : one (as a physician, dentist,
   or veterinarian) who holds an advanced degree and is licensed to practice b : medicine
   man
3. 3a : material added (as to food) to
   produce a desired effect b : a blade (as of metal) for
   spreading a coating or scraping a surface
4. 4: a person who restores, repairs, or
   fine-tunes things

"I won't argue about
it.”

Well,
I will - you raised issue and have been making various dismissive statements which are vague and unfounded.

Re: "She is
obviously a woman driven by a passion for her work, research"

“At what academic
institution does she do research? I don't think that's what she does at all. As
I suggested, her CV is (I think) intentionally vague.”

Who said anything about her being involved in research at an academic
institution? IIRC, as a board certified nutritionist and health and fitness practitioner, she
is involved in her own work and research by tracking the results/progress of her
clients. She herself may even have used another
term you might find more acceptable. I
don't recall. That aside, all of these new age health practitioners refer to and are passionate about the science/research of today that backs their claims.

"Doctor (title)

Contracted
"Dr" or "Dr.", it is used as a designation for a person who
has obtained a Research Doctorate (i.e. Ph.D., Ed.D). The M.D. and D.O. degrees are also
Research Doctorate degrees awarded to graduates of an accredited medical
school. "

Is research restricted to academic settings? I don’t think it is.

LaWeekly: “ She's a member of
Mensa, and she seems to have an addiction to academia. After graduating from
UCLA, she went on to graduate school for biomechanics, then sports medicine,
then took doctorate-level courses in exercise physiology, nutrition and aging
at USC. All in all she's taken more than 40 post-graduate courses that have
culminated to make her an expert in weight loss and physical health.”

As far as having what you consider to be a cheesy website, a lot,
if not all, of the MD’s promoting their health programs on PBS have websites. Some look home-grown or canned even though
they are highly respected and successful MDs.
Many also formulate or provide products they feel are of good quality in
order to support their health programs and make the quest simple for their
customers.

Having an online presence is a fact of life today. I don’t see what’s wrong with someone trying
to make a living, either.

Her work is not limited to celebrities and their endorsements. Along that line, Dr. Hyman is Director
of the Cleveland Clinic Center
for Functional Medicine but also has a media presence and works with celebrity doc Dr.
Oz.

“At what academic
institution does she do research? I don't think that's what she does at all.”

What she does:

“Her
mission is to crush the widespread misinformation on nutrition and exercise and
put a serious dent in the obesity epidemic with her science-based approach to
weight loss and fitness. “Your body is a chemistry lab; there are scientific
methods to help you discover your areas of weight loss resistance, heal your
metabolism and become well for life," JJ says.”

"Is research restricted to academic settings? I don’t think it is."

"Research" on scientific topics is most normally conducted at academic or research-oriented settings, is published in peer-reviewed journals, and is listed in PubMed. Re-read Kathy's comments above. Taking notes on what's observed from a small number of people and then discussing it on TV or on a website isn't research.

The LA Weekly words are like her CV, generic and non-specific.

Believe what you want to believe, but this woman isn't someone of prominence in the scientific field she purports to represent. She's a TV and media personality.

All that aside, my point in mentioning her name was that she provides a concise listing of 7 foods that she has found people to be sensitive to. Foods which often cause them health problems and leaky gut. So that, people can try an elimination diet to determine their food sensitivities and allergies.

I think you have a narrow definition of research, as well as what makes someone credible and useful or not.

I would also imagine a lot of what becomes the type of research you are referring to probably starts elsewhere by individuals.

Medicine is part science, part art. All the doctors I have known certainly pay attention to what they are doing, on the whole, and have their own ideas about things - which they study and research over the years while continually developing their art.

"Believe what you want to believe, but this woman isn't someone of prominence in the scientific field she purports to represent. She's a TV and media personality."

Well, I don't think she is trying to sell herself as a prominent scientist at all. She is a business and is selling herself as a nutritionist and a health & fitness expert. But yes, one that is science based.

BIO: http://theglutensummit.com/team/jj-virgin/

The title she uses is CNS. All the other study and training she has achieved
aside, this alone would explain and support the scientific approach she uses. I don’t see anything hokey about it. Quite to the contrary.

http://www.nutritionspecialists.org/cns-info-page/meet-few-certified-nutrition-specialists

The Certified Nutrition Specialist® (CNS®)
Credential

The
Gold Standard for Advanced Nutrition Professionals

We are in a period of
seismic transformation of human health, with nutrition at its epicenter. The
message from the science is profound: nutrition is the single most powerful
determinant of our health. Be at the forefront of this transformation. Become a
Certified Nutrition Specialist®.

Certified Nutrition
Specialists (CNSs) are advanced nutrition professionals. CNSs engage in
science-based advanced medical nutrition therapy, research, education, and
more, in settings such as clinics, private practice, hospitals and other
institutions, industry, academia, and the community.

CNSs have fulfilled
the most rigorous advanced-degree, education, experience, examination, and
continuing education requirements.

The CNS certification
is held by clinical nutritionists, physicians and other advance-degreed
healthcare professionals with a specialty in nutrition. There are three
distinct certification pathways:

• CNS for Nutrition and Health Professionals
  (CNS®) demonstrates
  competence as an advanced clinical nutrition professional.
• CNS for MDs and DOs (CNS®) demonstrates
  an advanced clinical nutrition specialty.
• CNS for Scholars (CNS-S℠) is for scholars,
  researchers, educators, product developers or scientists seeking
  distinction in the field of clinical or applied nutrition science.

Third
Party Accreditation

The CNS certification
is fully accredited by
the National Commission for Certifying Agencies (NCCA)

• NCCA
  accreditation distinguishes the CNS for its robust and reliable process
  for development, implementation, maintenance and governance of the
  certification

Most
Widely Recognized Certification by Federal and State Governments

• The only non-dietetics
  credential and examination widely named in state nutrition licensure laws
• Listed
  by the US Government's Department of Labor as an advanced nutrition
  credential in the definition of the "Dietetics and
  Nutritionists" profession in its Occupational Outlook Handbook
• Listed
  by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid as among those potentially
  eligible to order therapeutic diets in hospitals
• BCNS's
  Center for Nutrition Advocacy® continues to fight for the rights of CNSs
  and other nutrition practitioners. Learn more.

Meet a Few Certified Nutrition Specialists

Helpful
Links

• CNS for Nutrition and Health Professionals
• CNS for MDs and DOs
• CNS-S for Scholars
• Certified Nutrition Specialist Brochure

I did a little more checking & it seems that to become a Certified Nutrition Specialist, you have to sit for a 4 hour test with something called the CBNS (Certified Board of Nutrition Specialists). However, to sit for that designation, one has to first hold a Master of Science or a doctoral degree in nutrition or a doctoral degree in clinical health. Additionally, one has to spend at least 1000 hours in a clinical setting under a Certified Nutrition Specialist certified by the CBNS. I don't see any MS degree mentioned in her alphabet background and the Phd designation is still very questionable, so lacking either or both, how would she meet the Certified Board's own criteria? Not saying she doesn't, but this is looking pretty iffey.

BTW, if you google "Nutraceutical and Macrobiotic are Fake Words", which is a rather amusing blog on Ms. Virgin's academic credentials.

Dear Sleeperblues:

I mentioned that cadmium poisoning may mimic MS. I was quoting from memory from a book in our company library about Chemical hazards as related to industrial activities. I must apologize to you as my memory must have jumped a cog or two. It was at least 25 years ago when I read that passage and was very impressed by it since one of our technicians had come down with MS and he had the opportunity to come in contact with cadmium-oxide. One of his jobs was to mix silver powder with additives to compound electrical power contacts.

Today via google, I searched for those symptoms and did not find any mimicking MS. What I did find was that cadmium affects the kidneys and lungs. A sample article is shown below along with its URL. The symptoms are listed under "History".

I'm sorry if I caused a "wild goose chase".

Ref: http://www.mdguidelines.com/toxic-effects-cadmium

Diagnosis

History: Symptoms may not occur until 4 to 10 hours after exposure.
The individual will likely report irritation of the nose and throat followed
by a feeling of chest constriction or substernal pain with cough and
difficulty breathing (dyspnea).
The individual may also report headache,
chills, muscle
aches, nausea, vomiting and diarrhea. Longer-term effects of cadmium
exposure are anemia, yellow
discoloration of the teeth, rhinitis, nasal septum
perforation and damage to the olfactory nerve with loss of smell
(anosmia).

Physical exam: If acute toxicity is present, the nasopharynx will
be noticeably irritated. A non-productive cough may be present and chest
sounds may indicate pulmonary edema and insufficiency. Vomiting or diarrhea may occur. If
cadmium exposure is chronic, the individual may be pale and weak from anemia,
the teeth may be yellowed, and signs of respiratory or urinary tract
involvement may be present as well as myalgias.

Tests: Cadmium can be measured . . . .

Jem, thanks for that update. I did look into it, and nothing seemed to apply to my friend. But thanks for double checking for me:)

I have convinced my friend to order some pharmaceutical grade supplements to start taking-Omega 3 fatty acids, bifido bacteria, VitaminD3/K2 as a start. She is not a vitamin taker, so this is a good start. I should get those books today for her. I made a huge pot of soup with many of the foods Dr. Wahls recommends and sent it home with her. We did a strenuous workout tape yesterday and she did pretty good. She also has friend who worked at the college she used to work at who was diagnosed in 2009. He now works at UW-Madison, and they spent 2 hours talking about his course of treatments, what to expect, etc. Her MIL has MS-pretty bad. She is confined to a wheelchair and can't do much-chokes on food etc. So this hits pretty hard. Everyone's course is different, and she will do what she needs to fight this. Just needs to find out WHAT that is. It is so confusing.

This article was published today: an interview with Dr Neil Spector, a professor at the Duke University School of Medicine.

Click here

An excerpt:

Do you feel that ruling out Lyme should be imperative before diagnosing a patient with an auto-immune disease like MS, Fibromyalgia, or Rheumatoid Arthritis?
Absolutely! And Alzheimer's. Something has to trigger an autoimmune disease. It doesn't matter if this occurs in one percent or seventy-eight percent of the patient population--to allow people to go down a path of progressive neurodegeneration when they could be treated is unconscionable.

Dr. Specter required a heart transplant because his Lyme disease went undiagnosed for so long.

Kathy, I don't know why JJVirgin is under scrutiny and attack here, but I did check on the validity of her CNS title and was told that she is a CNS and has a Masters degree.

I think she probably doesn't use the PhD title because it was academic work done at a non-traditional, unaccredited school that has since closed. Not a surprising path, as she has an interest in alternative medicine. She also seems to be interested in specific areas of study, not in accumulating degrees. Thinks outside the box. Focused on the work. I don't think there is anything wrong with that, myself, and consider it to be a good characteristic. Some of the most brilliant and successful people in the world, who have made huge contributions, follow that path, their own path. Kudos to her :-)

I also kinda think PBS would verify the credibility of people who participate in their educational fund raising programs. The ones I have seen seem to be people at the top of their game, not average joes and wannabes, moreless dishonest quacks.

Snook:

Exactly with whom & what source did you check on the validity of her degrees, the years obtained & the actual institutions that awarded them. I have neighbors with two children who received both Masters Degrees & Phd. Degrees (both in biochemistry) in the past 15 years & neither would have trouble identifying the VERY well-accredited sources of their advanced degrees, the years they attended, and their graduation years from each program. Sorry your response still raises red flags as far as Virgin's credentials. Can you do better?

As far as the "non-traditional, unaccredited school that has since closed", I believe you would be referring to the Clayton College of Natural Health ( which closed down several years ago) since the alphabet letters following her name in one of your prior posts include "CCNH". This is Not a Good Thing. The title of the article in the Huffington Post on 7/12/2012 after its closing read "The Biggest Quack School In Natural Medicine Closes", and was written not by a traditional physician nor member of The America Medical Association, but rather by Dr. Andrew Lange, the former Chair of the Department of Homeopathic Medicine at Baystyr University, Seattle, which is an accredited 4-year, on campus, educational institution in the field of alternative medicine. And the Consumer Health Digest called CCNH a diploma mill notorious for selling health degrees.

I do have to wonder, since she is "an actress" if her reputed degrees from UCLA & USC were rather in the theater, rather than the scientific, field as both institutions offer undergraduate & graduate degrees in that area. Don't know, but surely possible.

Geez,, it shouldn't be THAT difficult for her to present a verifiable, rather than vague, CV to her public since its apparently what's made her a likely wealthy woman. And her name bandied about in important health matters as an expert of some sort.

The reason why her CV is so mushy-mouthed is now clear, it contains lies and stretches of the truth. In the real world (of employment by a company or at an institution of higher learning or research where credentials matter), including false or misleading items on a CV leads to immediate termination and ostracism by colleagues and any future employer.

Criticism coming from a naturopath is about as low a blow as could be, they're quacks too.

Red flags all over, this woman is clearly a phony.

Yeah, right. Get over yourself, already. You have a very narrow view of the world and what it can be.

And, P. S.. Let's see you do better and offer more to the world.

Do better than to spread lies and misrepresentations, used solely for self-promotion?

Done.

What health information is she misrepresenting? She is part of a movement, leading edge medicine.

What in the world do you have against this person? I don't see that your opinions are based on anything other than personal biases.

btw, I have not bought any of her books or products. Simply listened to her on PBS. And am thankful for the information!

People are free to ignore her message.

" (of employment by a company or at an institution of higher learning or research where credentials matter), "

That is not progressive and only represents your personal opinion and bias. The mindset of the masses. Thank god there are others that escape to move beyond that and contribute to progress.

Snookums, unfortunately some people seem to feel it's necessary to question and belittle anyone's ideas or opinions that don't fit into their tiny one sided point of view. They will argue that the sky is green and you are blue just to get the last word, don't waste your time....you have nothing to prove to the likes.

In regard to the information you've provided, thank you. Anyone who suffers from or has a loved one who suffers from a chronic, debilitating illness knows having an open mind and considering all angles is crucial. I have a friend who's daughter has MS and she will absolutely find all the information you've put forward helpful.

Thank you, Lukki! I don't understand this hostility towards her at all!

I, too, am so thankful for those who march on for progress!

Bless your heart!

Well, Gee Willikers, Snookums stated very plainly "but I did check on the validity of her CNS title, AND WAS TOLD (my emphasis) that she is a CNS and has a Masters Degree", then when questioned about her "was told" source, came up very silent. And "ideas and opinions" (per Lukki) has nothing to do with it.

"Just the facts, Ma'am", as Sgt. Joe Friday of Dragnet fame used to say.

Very silent? Gee. Your inquiry was a whole 2 hours ago and hasn't been responded to yet? Yah.

You haven't received confirmation of something you can confirm yourself. You wouldn't believe me anyway, as I already reported back the information I pursued.

One has to wonder why it is, for some odd reason, so important to you to expose JJ Virgin as a disingenuous fraud who, you feel, has the need to claim false titles in an attempt to pull the wool over the public's eyes - no CNS, no Masters degree, therefore, could have nothing to offer. God forbid someone should not have acquired a Master's or above to know anything or to be credible and useful!

I notice you have a whole 10 posts here on GW. A newbie who has arrived to the scene to trash JJVIrgin. That raises a HUGE red flag as to your own credibility, purpose and intentions, Kathy 3754. Strikes me as some sort of a personal vendetta. Who else would care so much about JJ Virgin.

(I care that she is being slandered here because I mentioned her. I have listened to her many times on PBS but have not read or bought her books or products).

My point was to consider the allergens she advises about.

Well, not quite a newbie. I posted several years back on the old GW forums--- I think as KFCA. If you were there, you may recall that I got very involved in the dramatic Fireman's Wife& the "3 kiddies adoption story", (another "story" in itself), but other things too. I sometimes posted on the Rose Forum, Compost & Soil Forum, and maybe once or twice on the Home Decor/Conversation Forum back then. I only recall posting a few times on newer Houzz Forums, but if you say 10, I'll buy it.

I'll get back to you on the rest.

Oh "gee wilikers", don't bother or do us any favors. Those are "facts" that some of us could really care less about...

As far as her only having some celebrity endorsements, here are some from top docs who are leading-edge science (Dr. Amen, Dr. Perlmutter, Dr. Hyman, included). She is part of a science-based movement.

The Sugar Solution Online Program™

“JJ Virgin’s Sugar Impact Diet can help save your brain and your life. Numerous studies show that sugar can be addictive and
pro-inflammatory and lead to a number of
devastating illnesses. If you want a better brain, I highly recommend this book.”

• Daniel Amen
  MD, New York Times bestselling author
  of Change Your Brain, Change Your Life

“In line with leading-edge science, JJ Virgin presents a radical and empowering new way to look at sugar.”

• David Perlmutter
  MD, #1 New York Times bestselling
  author of wheat belly

JJ Virgin’s Sugar Impact Diet™

“A foolproof, science-based plan to lose weight, boost your metabolism and reclaim your health, for life.”

Daniel Amen
MD, New York Times bestselling author
of Change Your Brain, Change Your Life

“Eliminates the ‘healthy’ foods that are actually holding your health hostage, so you can lose weight quickly and permanently.”

Mark Hyman
MD, author of the #1 New York Times
bestseller, The Blood Sugar Solution
10 Day Detox Diet

“In her newest book, Sugar Impact, author JJ Virgin takes no prisoners. She delivers a hard-hitting, no-holds-barred, crystal clear
message on how to identify and eliminate the astounding and myriad forms sugars have taken in our diets. Follow her advice and readers will
discover answers to why weight and healthy can prove so elusive despite the best intentions.”

• William Davis
  MD, #1 New York Times bestselling
  author of Wheat Belly

“Food sensitivity is a hidden epidemic—this eye-opening book will change the way you think of food so you can lose weight for good.”

• Frank Lipman
  Frank Lipman, MD, author of Revive:
  Stop Feeling Spent and Start Living Again

Yes, and it's obvious in doing this endorsing of her book, that they in turn can push their OWN book at the same time. EVERY single one of them. I think that's called Good Marketing. Or maybe just a coincidence.

Kathy why not give it a rest, you don't have to have the last word ya know.

Someone needs to have the last word, how about me?

These cited people are all in a small circle of self-proclaimed experts who endorse one another. In fact, few or none of them are recognized as knowledgeable or authoritative at all by the real experts. We see with this one example how many make up or stretch their credentials, exaggerate what they call "research" and create findings using their imaginations. Consumers and those seeking health advice need to be cautious of self-promoters like this who are creatures of the media and not of the halls of medicine or science where there are standards and procedures. With real research, tentative findings of one team get published so that others can challenge and test, to prove or disprove the tentative findings. None of what these people do has been subjected to that, but that's how real scientific inquiry normally works.

Sorry, sleeper, to have contributed to the hijack.

In an interview with Dr. Steven E. Phillips, a leading Lyme physician, I just read the following. He goes on to say more about MS. You can read the whole interview here. His account of saving his father from a heart transplant is fascinating too.

Another common presentation is MS. When we say that Lyme can mimic MS, it can do so literally 100%. So, we have to ask what percentage of MS is caused by Lyme.

If you look at the epidemiology of Lyme, it overlaps with MS identically. If you look at the diagnostics--whether it's white spots on the brain or spinal cord or optic neuritis, oligoclonal bands in the spinal fluid, or evoked potentials--every single clinical descriptor has been reported with Lyme. There is no clinical, laboratory, or radiologic feature which accurately differentiates the two.

I was just checking in to see if there was any new information about Sleeperblue's friend and couldn't believe how the thread got hijacked. I had to laugh when I got to Alisande's thread of two weeks ago when she expressed my feelings exactly. How is your friend doing. S.B.?

I read further into the link I posted the other day (this one), and learned some things about MS that I never knew. For instance, before the advent of steroids, it was thought that MS was an infectious disease.

Consider this short excerpt:

Back in the early MS literature, they found spirochetes in the brains of patients who were autopsied. They called it by a Latin name that meant myelin destroyer.

They knew it was a spirochete that wasn't syphilis but they didn't know what it was, and they did a number of animal studies taking the spinal cord fluid and tissue of those with MS and putting it into baby animals, and the animals got progressive neurologic illness.

But when steroids were discovered, they realized they could suppress symptoms quickly, and this whole concept of autoimmune disease sprang up. So, before steroids, MS was known as an infectious disease.

Spirochetes, by the way, are what ticks transmit with Lyme. A lot more information on MS and the Lyme connection is included in this interview.

Syphilis infection is caused by a spirochete. I suppose that may have raised questions.

They knew it wasn't syphilis, so spirochetes must come in different models. :-)

Yes, spirochetes is a spiral shaped class of bacteria that has a number of members, some of which cause syphilis, yaws, lyme disease, and relapsing fever.

Just got back from vacation tonight and catching up on some reading. Alisande, thank you for the links--I will review them closely. Update on my friend--Her neurologist returned from vacation and ran some more tests. They were afraid she had something called NMO (I think?) which is a horrible form of a degenerative disease similar to MS that attacks your optic nerve and causes blindness and can also cause paralysis of the limbs. Thankfully, she did not have this. They thought she might have it because they saw some possible lesions on her chest CT so they had to do a cervical CT. They did a spinal tap on Wednesday, and now she is suffering from a spinal headache. If she is not better tomorrow, they will do a blood patch which she is not happy about. I was afraid this would happen. I do know that they can diagnose lyme with a spinal tap, but hopefully they are looking for that. I was also worried this could be lyme disease because we have a lot of ticks in Wisconsin, a lot of lyme disease, and she spends a lot of time outdoors. The saga continues:( Her symptoms have not progressed, though, so that is one good thing!

Hopefully, the doctors are looking for Lyme?? I hope your friend is proactive and insists they look for Lyme as well. These days one must be an advocate for oneself and for family members. Best wishes to your friend, Sleeper.

Update-friend just got back from the hospital after having a blood patch for her spinal headache. Said she feels much better, and will be able to return to work tomorrow. Alisande, I have to thank you for that information. I sent it my friend, and hopefully she will review many of the abstracts. I did read some of the information also. I really hope they tested for Lyme in the spinal fluid they took from her. I'm sure she doesn't want to do another tap!

You're more than welcome, Sleeperblues. Those of us who struggle with symptoms of Lyme and/or its co-infections find it wildly frustrating that the medical community has been so blind about the issue, and so steadfastly ignores it when making diagnoses. We hope this will change now that more people (including informed physicians) are speaking out.

If they don't test the spinal fluid for Lyme, your friend could request a blood test from IGeneX in California. Much more accurate than the standard blood test.

http://www.igenex.com/

You are an incredible resource, Alisande. I'm sorry that you have suffered so with this terrible illness. I will pass along the info.