ROSES.. UK/Europe - Part 2..
Marlorena
15 days ago
last modified: 3 days ago
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peter straw
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UK's Gardens of the Rose? or what 1 other UK garden?
Comments (14)I'm wondering, Carol, how long you will have at each of the gardens - two days isn't much to do all four. We easily did both Sissinghurst and Great Dixter in a single day. We gave a day to Wisley. It's bit, and a terrific garden but we were unimpressed with their rather ordinary rose garden - the long, long, long border and rock garden were much better. We went to Mottisfont several different days, and I would think it needs at least half a day, if possible - hope you aren't too jet lagged on your first day in England. Mottisfont's rose gardens aren't huge, but there is so much to look at and it is so beautifully done that I couldn't stop looking! I think it might be open a bit later than usual in June, if you are staying nearby. Janelle and I did fine on our first day in the UK without a nap, and really adjusted without much jet lag. I slept in a bit later than usual the first few mornings - she didn't. When I went to London with my husband some years ago, I didn't do as well - literally fell asleep on my feet while visiting a museum. Maybe it was an advantage to be outside in fresh air, sunshine, and gardens rather than inside. I got sick on the trip to London, but was utterly healthy and thriving during the garden trip. In any case, your trip sounds wonderful. I think you've said that your husband isn't really a rose garden kind of guy, so how nice that you are getting these two days plus a day at Kew. My husband isn't much for gardens, but he was pretty enthusiastic about Kew. I still think that Kew is a great choice, but have to say that we heard good things about St. Albans from the people on Clair Martin's Great Rosarians trip last year. It wasn't open to the general public but was open to RNRS members and tour groups. We could always have joined the RNRS and gotten to see it, but we just didn't make the time. Anita...See More*Fave rose gardens in Europe*
Comments (5)I lived in Lyon for 8 months in 1989 only a few blocks from the Jardin Tete d'Or. I think I remember that it has the 8th largest rose garden in the world. The gardens in the park are beautiful and on Sundays the French all stroll around in their Sunday best. There are swans in the lake and a huge botanical garden and even a zoo. I can never stress how under-rated Lyon is. The city center is absoultely beautiful. It was used as the setting for the Prague scenes in The Unbearable Lightness of Being. They have the best food in the world, and in summer the Rue Merciere is closed to traffic because all the restaurants pull their tables out into the streets. They are so under-touristed that they don't have the attitude that Parisians have - partly though, because they're southerners. There are four universities, many churches and museums, and I must say, the Saturday market on the Rhone/Siene rivers is not to be missed if you are a seeker of the finest gastronomie. From Lyon it is only 2 hours north to Beaune (Burgundy) on the TGV, and then just a jump again to Paris. Enjoy, Carla...See MoreBest time to go to UK, Europe Fall or Spring
Comments (10)We lived in the UK between 1975 and 1988. We have returned for visits at least once every two years. We have been all over the place in that time, from the north of Scotland to London. But we spent a good 5 years in London. London is a great city, but you certainly would not want to drive into Central London. First of all, there is no need to - it is so well served by public transport - you can buy a day pass which will get you on the Underground and on the buses for the whole day. Second, where are you going to park? Even seasoned drivers like my SIL, who has lived in London for 36 years, and who knows every nook and craney in London has difficulty finding parking spots. Even when she does find one, it's still a distance from where we want to get to. Third, London drivers are a sight to behold - not an activity for the fainthearted to indulge in. (And pedestrians - watch out!!) Fourth, those of us in North America used to the orderly vertical and horizontal grits of streets can potentially be totally lost in the streets of London, with it's the curves, turns, oneways, divided carriage ways, elevated carriage ways, multiple bridges and what nots. Your best bet would be to stay somewhere in the suburb, in a Bed and Breakfast, within walking distance of an Underground Station, and forget about the car for activities in London. However, a car will definitely be useful for excursions outside of London and it's suburbs - anywhere out of reach of the main city transportation grit. June is the best month for garden travellers. That's usually when the perennial beds are just coming into it's own, and at the same time, the once blooming roses are at their peak. There are some nice gardens, set within huge public parks, within the City London itself. My favourite is Regent's Park, which has nice gardens, including a well planted rose garden. If you are going to be able to spend more time, don't forget to go to one of the flower show. The Hampton Court Palace Flower Show is usually held in the second week of July (5-10 July for 2005). It is one of the biggest such show in the world, if not already the biggest. It would be an "out of this world" experience for any avid gardener. And you can visit the gardens at Hampton Court to boot. The gardens that are "must see" for me anytime I am in London are the RHS Garden Wisley, and Kew Garden. Kew has a large rose garden with extensive arbours clothed by a huge selection of climbing roses and ramblers. My favourite is the garden of the history of roses, with plantings of species and old roses through the ages. It has a very large collection of bamboos. The palm house contains some of the oldest containerised plants in the world, including the oldest. Both Wisley and Kew has large rose beds. The one at Wisley has just been recently replanted, and may not have mature rose bushes yet, but like Kew it has a good collection of climbers. The trial garden in Wisley is usually very interesting. Beyond those two staple itineries, I spend the rest of the time visiting other gardens further afield. Sissinghurst is a "must see", at least once in your life. Leeds Castle has a beautiful garden. Others worth mentioning are Great Dixter, Hever Castle, Hatfield House and Hidcote Manor. Jon_in_Wessex has fired my interest in Monttisfond Abbey, which houses the National Collection of Old Garden Roses. There are lots more to see, if you would like to venture further away from London. We visited the Eden Project in Cornwall in 2003, and, IMO, it was fantastic. "Gardens in England A-Z" provides a list of some of the major garden attractions in England....See MoreOriginal Roses From the Middle East (Part 2)
Comments (0)Hello everyone! The discussion about damask roses earlier this year got me wondering if there were any other old garden roses native to the Middle East, especially ancient or historically important ones. I embarked on a quest to find out. Google books and HelpMeFind reference pages provided me with a wealth of information, but there is so much conflicting information, and I am having trouble sorting it all out. I would greatly appreciate it if you could offer me some insight on this subject. I will break down the information and questions by rose classes. Here is what I found out: R. damascena~ From what I understand, the original damask roses that are in commerce in the U.S. are Kazanlik (Trigintipetala), Gloire de Guilan, and Autumn Damask, and possibly York and Lancaster. I have heard that York and Lancaster is a sport of Kazanlik, is this true? Also, some say that Professeur Emile Perrot is a synonym for Kazanlik, while others claim it is a different rose entirely. What is your stance on the subject? I also learned that Kazanlik occasionally repeats bloom in warm climates. I found this surprising, as Autumn Damask is the only mentioned repeat blooming rose in history until the introduction of roses from China. Then again, I read that there used to be two “monthly roses” introduced to Europe prior to the introduction of the China roses, one being a light pink and one being a darker pink. I am wondering if Kazanlik could have been the other “monthly rose.” In regards to the damask rose Ispahan, I have read that it is not a pure damask, and that it is damask mixed with alba or another type of rose. Is this correct? Also, I read that Nancy Lindsay found it growing in Persian gardens in Isfahan, but I couldn’t find out who hybridized it or where it originated from. If it is mixed with alba, then could it have been from Iran? I am unsure of where alba roses are from. Also, what is R. damascena Mill.? I also read that scientists did a genetic analysis of roses grown for oil in Bulgaria versus roses grown for oil in Iran. They found them to be mainly the same type. They also did a study of Kazanlik, York and Lancaster, Autumn Damask, and Perpetual White Moss and found them to all be seedlings of the same cross. R. alba~ Where do alba roses come from? Are they from Europe or the Middle East? All I know is that they are grown in Bulgaria for a lesser quality of rose oil than damask roses, and that one rosarian guesses that they may have come from Crimea. I don’t think anybody knows what they are a cross of, because every website and reference page that I’ve looked at had a different guess for the rose species that were crossed to make the alba roses. R. gallica, R. phoenicia, and R. moschata~ Here is where I got even more confused. Scientists/rosarians have determined that R. gallica is definitely one of the parents the damask rose, as well as nearly every other garden rose in existence. This makes sense, as from what I understand R. gallica is native to the Middle East and southern Europe. (Is this true? Also, does anyone have any other information on R. gallica, I couldn’t find much? All I know is that it was a single-petalled pink rose that was the great, great grandpappy of all our garden roses.) But about half of the rosarians believe that the other parent is R. moschata with a bit of R. fedtschenkoana somewhere in the mix. They say that R. gallica, R. moschata, and R. fedtschenkoana crossed where their ranges meet. But I looked at the map, and discovered that their ranges do not meet. R. moschata’s range is suspected to lie in the western Himalayas and R. fedtschenkoana’s range is in the foothills and mountains of central Asia and northwest China. I got really confused, then happened to stumble on a website that said that there used to be another musk rose, that was native to southern Europe and the Middle East. It was superseded by the hardier species of musk rose from Asia in the late nineteenth century. So it makes sense that damask roses would be a cross of the Middle Eastern musk rose and R. gallica. (Does anyone know anything about the original R. moschata?) But then the other half of rosarians believe that the musk rose is not a parent of the damask rose at all. They believe that the damask rose is a cross between R. gallica and R. phoenicia. This also makes complete sense, as R. phoenicia is native to the Levant. What is your opinion on the subject? Also, do R. phoenicia or R. moschata repeat bloom? I think I read somewhere that R. phoenicia repeats bloom, but I am not sure. That would explain the repeat blooming characteristics of the Autumn Damask rose. R. gallica officinalis (Apothecary’s rose)~ I have a lot of questions about this rose. Is it a species, or is it a cultivar? Also, I read that it was brought to Europe from Syria by the crusader Theobald I of Navarre; I forgot whether it was the same crusader who brought back the damask roses. Is this true? Yet some say that this rose is native to France. Which story is correct? I know that this rose was once called the red damask rose. But people called a lot of different roses damask roses even if they weren’t back in the day. Could this be a reference to where they were found? Were the roses taken from Syria by the crusaders all called damask roses in those times? R. sancta, R. polliana, and R. spinosissima~ R. sancta is a rose I am very interested in. I believe the correct form of this rose is R. sancta richardii, not R. sancta andrews. Is this correct? I read that it was brought from Syria to Ethiopia by Saint Frumentius or other early Christians in 300 AD. How cool is that?! I heard that it is a very close relative of the damask rose, being a cross of R. gallica and R. phoenicia. I’m not sure if it’s from the same cross, or a different cross, or when it came into existence, all I know is that it is very ancient. Does anyone know anything about it? I know it is planted around many ancient churches and monasteries. Yet some say that this rose has gone extinct, and that it was replaced in commerce as R. polliana. Is this true? And where does R. sancta andrews fit in? I think it was gifted to a nurseryman in Italy, but it is not from Italy. Where is it from? It is called St. John’s rose, so I’m thinking it may have some connection to the early Christian church. I could be wrong though. I think on HMF it says that R. sancta andrews is really R. spinosissima. Is this correct? Does anyone know anything about R. spinosissima? R. foetida~ I think the variety of R. foetida in the Middle East is called R. foetida persiana (Persian Yellow). I heard that it is yellow, it stinks (Does it really smell like sulphur?), and that it comes from modern-day Iran. I also heard that it is the first, or one of the first, yellow roses. Is this true? Is it of historical importance? Does anybody know anything about it? Are there other varieties of R. foetida in the Middle East? Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read through this post. I'm sorry for all the questions. Also please feel to correct me if any of my information is incorrect. Any knowledge is greatly appreciated. Have a wonderful day! damask_rose : )...See MoreEustace_UK_Zone_9a
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