hobbitmom, did you try to train him to stop running out the open screen door?

I don't remember trying anything specific. It always happened so fast. Come to think of it, I guess I was more focused on training the humans to shut the door right!

Ninapearl - reading your story of Frank’s prey drive caused an immediate strong memory for me. We often chatted with two neighbors who often walked their two racing rescue greyhounds past our home. They were named Cornell & Harvard & seemed quite docile. They would stand quietly while we chatted with their owners, often relaxing & leaning against us with their full body weight. One day I had my 4.5lb Papillon Ginger- my icon pic - in my arms. She was mostly white body & being very quiet. One of those greyhounds happened to look up & spotted Ginger - the eyes of that dog immediately changed growing larger & extremely alert. One of the owners spoke quietly to it by name & it turned away from me & Ginger. It didn’t take a rocket scientist to read that dog’s thought - RABBIT!!! It was a very erie feeling.

Ninapearl, I have a Frank who likes to hunt! He’s always bringing things to the front door.

This is puppy Frank with my daughter’s GSD, Milla Jovobitch.

I've had four dogs, three purebreds and one mutt. The Afghan Hound had an international pedigree with her parents', grandparents, winning shows across Canada and Europe. Her grandfather was the dog of the year at Madison Square Garden. Pasha was the very dumbest dog and the least affectionate animal I ever knew. Then came the greyhound I rescued one day off the track in Connecticut. Not super smart, Ruby was the most destructive when she couldn't be with us and was left at home alone. Then the purebred standard dachshund, who was smart and wily, but not super affectionate. And then there was Ziggy, the love of my life. Part Boston Terrier and part Sheltie, and he got the best of both breeds. Smart as a whip and very sweet and friendly to everyone. All these were rescues except the first one. None of my dogs ever killed wildlife, and frankly, I could not deal with that. I love all animals too much.

I love animals, but recognize that public safety is paramount over humane rescue efforts.

Not every rescue organization sees this the same as I do.

They are legally liable if they place an animal with a known bite history in a home without informing the owner that the animal has a documented bite history, so most will do this. Beyond that level of blatant misrepresentation they often overlook signs of aggression or will explain to a prospective owner why the dog bit, disclosing the facts, but minimizing the risk.

One story comes to mind that had to be one of the worst placements I ever encountered.

First time pet owner, has 2 little girls (preschool). Brought a rescue into our vaccination clinic. The dog (a Shar Pei) was visibly agitated and immediately set me on high alert. The owner explained that he had just gotten the dog from Shar Pei rescue. The poor dog has been passed from home to home and had to be pulled from from foster care because he mauled the foster families Chow. He needed a stable home where he would be the only dog since he doesn't like other dogs, but the rescue told him that the dog had never shown any signs of human aggression.

After telling me the dogs story and sharing the medical history from the rescue organization he asked me what shots he should get for the dog. I told him "a 22".

I then explained to him that Shar Pei's are best in homes with experienced owners as they have a propensity toward dominant behaviors and aggression. If he wanted to keep this dog he should buy a gun and keep it loaded and ready to fire whenever the dog was with the children so that he could shoot the dog if it attacked one of the kids. He decided to return the dog and I helped him find another dog that was better suited to his family.

There were times where I hated seeing a dog get put down because of aggressive tendencies, especially those that were fearful, knowing that the right home and the right owners could give the dog a second chance, but I also had friends and co workers who were seriously injured by dogs and saw so many people who were bitten and the dogs had to be brought into the shelter for quarantine or euthanasia, that I learned to accept that this was the right answer.

Lily, I doubt Frank killed those ruffed grouse. They are not the brightest birds and often fly into things injuring themselves. I think Frank just found them. (They were still alive, though)

He does kill moles, voles, mice, frogs and beetles.

He used to bring horse poop to the door as well. No more horses, no more poop.

I’ve had a beagle (named Max), a corgi/spaniel cross (Hali), a Black and Tan Coonhound (Sparrow), a Lhasa Apso (Gus), and Frank a ShihTzu/ poodle cross. The smartest were Frank and the corgi/spaniel. The most laid back-the Lhasa Apso. The most hammerheaded were the coonhound and beagle. I loved them all.

I had one dog that stole my heart and of all my dogs kept a special place in my heart. Honey was about 8-9 weeks old when I found her in a box on my front porch. This poor little pup was loaded with fleas, was horribly underweight, ribs and hip bones sticking out, no body fat and had open bloody wounds like someone had lashed her with a whip all over her little body.

I took her in and got her food and water, cleaned her wounds and got the fleas off of her. I put her in a small room with a box set on it's side so she could hide in her den. I would bring food in and set it down and she would hide until I left the room. It took weeks for her to trust me enough to come out and eat when I brought her food in. I began sitting on the floor while she ate and slowly she started warming to me and coming over and getting up on my lap. She was probably 4 or 5 months old before we were bonded and I could put a leash on her and take her outside to go potty. She was fine as long as no other human was around, but if another person walked down the alley behind my house she shook and hid behind my legs. She attached herself to me like glue.

Eventually we got to the point that she would sit behind me on the sofa when someone would come to the house, but she was too scared to let anyone else pet her or touch her. She did warm up to my dad after a while. We would go to my parents house and while I was helping my mom in the kitchen she would go over and jump onto my dad's lap and watch me while he pet her.

I met my husband after I got Honey. We lived together for a year before we got married and were married about 3 years when he called me at work. He told me honey had come out from under the bed and laid at the other end of the sofa. This was the first time she came out when I wasn't at home.

She lived to be 12 years old. She never got over her fear of strangers, but learned to be okay around my husband and a handful of close friends as long as they were quiet and let her approach them.

I never felt anything else quite like this dogs love for me and her absolute trust that I would protect and care for her and life was okay because I was there. I owned many dogs, but none so horribly traumatized or fragile or dependent on me. I don't know how to explain the feeling, but even today, 30 years since she passed away, I still tear up thinking about her.

By the way, she did bite someone. My husband and I went away for a week. I had a friend come over to give her food and water. Told them to pick up the pee pad by the back door and replace it with a fresh one each day, but don't try to interact with her. They decided to try to get her to come out from under the bed and when they reached under the bed to pull her out she bit them.

Even though they had been around her before and she would let them pet her when they were visiting, they didn't realize the only reason she could let them pet her is that she knew I was there to protect her.

Some dogs I owned were exceptionally well trained. Juno, my last GSP, went with me when I worked vaccination clinics and when I worked at the humane society. She would lay under the table at the clinics while I helped other people with their dogs and cats. She wouldn't move until I told her it was okay. If we were inside a pet store that had birds I would have to put a towel down on the floor. She would lay there and stare at the birds and drool, but she wouldn't move. People would ask me what kind of dog she was and state that they wanted a dog just like her. I would have to explain that she behaved so well because we consistently worked at this from the time she was 8 weeks old and we trained together several hours a day.

She was my secret weapon when it came to housebreaking puppies. I would bring a litter of pups home and if one of the pups would start to go potty in the house she would bark at it, run over and pick it up by the scruff and run it out side. When it was done she would lick it and love it and bring it back into the house. It took about a week of living a my house and we adopted out house broken puppies.

The CEO of the Humane Society was totally amazed with how good she was. He was super impressed when I had a cookie exchange at my house and left Juno wandering through the house with cookies sitting on every coffee table and end table and wasn't worried that she would help herself to any of the cookies. I knew she wouldn't touch anything that wasn't on the floor.

At that time, my life was devoted to dogs and I if I wanted her to go with me to work she had to behave well enough that I could do my job without concern that she may misbehave.

At this point in my life that isn't the priority. As long as I am happy with my dogs and they are happy in my home and the antics they do don't hurt anyone we are good.

Jennifer, thanks for sharing some stories of your most memorable dogs that shared your life. Heartwarming and wonderful successes both of them.

What a good dog 🙂 Reminds me of Ricky Gervais' show After Life - there's a very well-behaved German Shepherd in it.

And when visiting her in-laws in TX, my sister was badly bitten on her thigh by their elderly little dog - out of the blue. She had to go to the ER, and apparently, in TX, dogs that bite more than once are required to be euthanized. Her in-laws didn't want the authorities to know this wasn't the first time the dog had bitten someone

Jennifer, those stories touched me. Thank you for doing so much to help those who have no voice of their own. I donate heavily to some good organizations, because I don't have it in me to handle it personally. Giving money is easy. You gave it your all. Again, I thank you.

@Jennifer Hogan i love reading your stories and i marvel at your determination to heal the dogs both physically and emotionally that have come through your life. you really are a perfect role model for those of us who try and sometimes fail.

the story of the shar pei sent chills up my spine. i agree, there are some dogs that simply cannot and in many cases, should not be saved. it's always sad when we come across a dog that has had a miserable life. i see it sometimes with the dane rescues i've worked with over the years. it saddens me and sometimes angers me when a dane with temperament issues (they are ALWAYS byb dogs) comes into rescue and they will spend thousand and thousands of dollars on trainers, behaviorists, vets, before they finally realize that the dog will just never be suitable for adoption. that's so much $$$ spent on a hopeless case that could better be used to rehabilitate a dog or numerous dogs that have a fighting chance of ending up in a loving home.

two of my past rescue danes came to me shut down, afraid of their own shadows, unsure if i was reaching out to pet them or hit them. endless weeks were spent just ignoring these dogs and simply making sure they had enough to eat and a calm environment until the day they finally sought me out for attention.

this was swee' pea. when i picked her up from rescue, we had to literally lift her into my car because she had no idea how to climb in. when we got home, it took her a full 30 minutes to step out of my car. i pulled up a lawn chair, grabbed a handful of treats and just waited her out...

i worked with her every day, many times a day, just to get her to accept being in the same room as i. she eventually came around enough to start taking her out to places so i could show her the world outside of her own house and to let her know all humans aren't bad. i will never forget the day she was with me at the farm supply story. glued to my side, we cruised the toy/treat isles and every time she ventured more than 12" away from me, she got lots of praise and a cookie. we ended up at the checkout lane. while i was paying for my purchase, i felt a tug on the leash. the tug got more insistent. i heard a soft voice telling her what a good girl she was. this dog was terrified of men and men wearing hats and beards would make her pancake to the floor, seemingly terrorized. i never intentionally exposed her to this but being out and about, it was inevitable that she would see it sooner or later. i turned around to see her fully leaning into a man who could have passed for santa clause, sporting a big cowboy hat and a full white beard and he was hugely tall. i took this sight in with tears in my eyes. it was a breakthrough i never thought i would see. i thanked him for his kindness and by the time i got to the end of her story with him, tears streamed down his cheeks. that one time of kindness from a stranger changed her life and she became one of the biggest social butterflies i ever had the pleasure of owning.

the first time i ever saw pea doing the "dane sit".

I have found my people! 😄

I support a breed rescue too. We all have our favorites, don't we?! Oh the stories, they break my heart. I give money because I just can't be the person interacting with the owners.

Which is why I never actually push people into the "get a rescue" angle. Ours generally have more people interested than we have dogs available, for one. People end up mad because they can't order a dog with features like they're picking off a lunch menu. And two, nearly all have issues - some more serious than others, of course. Most of ours come from puppy mills, who give every responsible breeder a bad name. It kills me to see people slam my breed of choice because their only experience is with mill dogs. Mine come from a breeder who cares deeply, and her dogs are solid.

The amount of money spent on unsaveable dogs is....not a good use of limited funds. But, some people mean well and so it goes.

" Most of ours come from puppy mills, who give every responsible breeder a bad name. "

The problem isn't just the larger "puppy mills". There are far too many small scale breeders that have given all breeders a bad name because of their ignorant and irresponsible practices. Sadly, this is why a number of breeds have developed congenital health issues.

I'm not talking about issues because of anatomical features, like respiratory problems of dogs with flat, snout-less faces or the risk of bloat with large chested dogs. Rather, breeds who because of irresponsible breeding now have greater rates of hip dysplasia, heart conditions, skin problems, etc.

“The amount of money spent on unsaveable dogs is....not a good use of limited funds. But, some people mean well and so it goes.”

It’s heartbreaking to me how many adoptable pets are destroyed just days or weeks after entering ”the system.” On the other hand, I’m a bit conflicted about no kill shelters. If there’s a dog in a cage for years that no one adopts, maybe there’s a reason and maybe it’s actually selfish to force it to live that sad existence. When I get a sob story in my inbox seeking funds for some homeless dog that requires fifty surgeries and a wheeled cart, are we actually doing it any favors?

It's hard to turn away from the terrible and unfortunate sad stories and situations that animals who depend on humans are put through. Sometimes fund raisers and other organization promoters take advantage of the compassionate reactions that sad stories trigger.

food, you may know that part of the teaching in vet school is designed to instill the notion that it is the responsibility of vets to protect and improve the health and welfare of animals. Sometimes the welfare of an ill, injured, or elderly animal is best addressed with euthanasia. One of the more touching story I've heard concerned a younger person I know, now a vet, relating what happened with their first euthanasia procedure.

It was during their vet school training. Working under the direct supervision of a faculty member, the student examined a dog that had been brought to the hospital. The prof asked what the student's view was and asked for what should be done next. The student responded a bit reservedly with their exam findings - a primary diagnosis (I don't remember the details). The patient was very ill and also old. What might be done for a younger patient was perhaps not appropriate with this dog. Maybe euthanasia was indicated? The prof agreed

The faculty member stepped back, telling the student they needed to talk to the owners to explain their findings and recommendation. And then to perform the procedure. The student cried with the clients and again after performing the euthanasia. The faculty member offered a big hug and said something to the effect of “You should always feel exactly like this when the proper thing you can do for a patient is end their suffering. You should also always remember that it's a privilege you have worked hard to attain, to be able to end any suffering of an animal when that's the right option. ” Beyond the emotion when being told (and remembering) this tale, I admired the thoughtfulness of the prof to have the right words to say, to make it a never to be forgotten learning experience. Heck, even I remember it.

There are many ways that the AKC and Animal Welfare groups could help end this progression from irresponsible breeders, to pet stores, to shelters.

Profit is standing in the way. Pet sales are only a minor factor. Follow the money from there to food, medical care, damage, law enforcement, shelters, advertising, abuse of donor funds. There are ways to slow, even stop the merry-go-round.

The Pennsylvania Amish are one of the worst abusers of animals and operate most of the puppy mills in this state. They are very callous towards creatures and simply throw out the unproductive dogs when they don't produce. The dogs have horrific living conditions.

the merry-go-round will never be stopped as long as people are willing to spend exorbitant amounts of $$$ for these ridiculous "fad" breeds that are constantly popping up. i've seen it go as far as breeders (i use that term loosely, i prefer "greeders") pumping out long-haired french bulldogs or "mini" danes or *insert breed* crossed with a poodle so it won't shed or cause terrible allergy flares. they call them "rare" breeds when in reality, they are simply mutts with a big price tag.

over the years i've had danes, i've had people contact me wanting a puppy. when i explain the difference between a reputable breeder vs. a byb and if they want a well-bred dog, they will have to wait many months, they almost always balk. that's rarely been an option they are willing to accept and the next thing you know, they've found the "perfect" puppy, bought it and it's cuter than any puppy they've ever seen and they're madly in love. fast forward a few months and their cute puppy has suddenly become aggressive or they are constantly cleaning up explosive diarrhea or their cute puppy's legs have become twisted abominations and the vet bills are killing them, and the list goes on and on and on.

don't even get me started on these bybs who pump out "rare" colors that are as far from breed standard as they can get.

too often, people think just because dogs are registered with AKC, that alone is an indication of good breeding. it doesn't work that way.

The Merry-go-round is more like Six Flags Quantum Accelerator, so many twists and turns and things wrong with the system. Shelters have a hard time raising funds if they don't claim no-kill status. No one donates to kill shelters.

When our county went from being kill shelters to no kill shelters the number of euthanasias didn't change. Nothing really changed. We didn't do something to change the population of stray animals or relinquished animals, we didn't do anything to increase the number of adoptions. We didn't create additional housing or funding. We simply declared that the county was going to be no-kill. Sounded good.

The real change was how well we could fudge the numbers to fit into the no-kill criteria.

To reach our goals the "reasons" for euthanasia changed and some of the shelters stopped accepting animals that weren't highly adoptable, referring those owners to the Animal Control Facility, that did not do adoptions and was not considered a shelter. All dogs at the AC were euthanized or transferred to a shelter, they did not have an adoption program and were funded by tax dollars, not donations, so they didn't count as a "Shelter".

But by doing this we had a much harder time pushing people to not let their animals have puppies. If there isn't any need to euthanize, we don't have an overpopulation problem.

The facility I worked at was a open admission shelter - brought in strays, accepted any animal brought to us by the public as a stray or relinquished pet. We had about 400 intakes a week. We adopted out about 250 a month and had about 100 strays returned to their owners a month, about 100 were owner surrenders requesting euthanasia and we had a handful that died while under our care. The remainder were euthanized, but always due to a behavioral or medical reason. (those don't count under the no-kill rules.)

When I was working the shelter we had a rule that rescues were allowed to come in and select animals that had been in adoptions for more than 10 days. Now, most facilities only have the pit bulls and a few other large dogs or older dogs that are not what most families want because the rescues can pick them up the day they become eligible for adoption. The rescues charge far more for than the shelters and cherry pick the highly adoptable animals.

Some rescue organizations also buy dogs from the commercial breeders dog auctions and adopt them out as rescues without disclosing that they bought them from an auction that was selling puppy mill pups.

Small backyard breeders are less concerning to me. Breeders who are responsible show or field dog breeders aren't generally the problem either, but commercial dog breeders are a huge problem. Some rescues are truly wonderful groups trying to keep animals from being euthanized, but there are also a lot that are profiting by getting free dogs from shelters, raising money on fund me pages and spending that money to obtain more animals to sell. They are essentially the online version of a brick and mortar pet store selling puppy mill pups.

The answers are not easy.

" Small backyard breeders are less concerning to me. Breeders who are responsible show or field dog breeders aren't generally the problem either "

My information is the opposite, these are among the hot spots of the problem.. Small time operators don't know enough to be careful and selective to avoid perpetuating dangerous traits. Show animal breeders go overboard trying to produce animals that meet breed-specific specs because that's where the money is, what their customers want. In doing so, they often ignore the damaging characteristics present in two parents that should be avoided, that tells more knowledgeable breeders that "these two should never be mated".

Show animal breeders go overboard trying to produce animals that meet breed-specific specs because that's where the money is, what their customers want. In doing so, they often ignore the damaging characteristics present in two parents that should be avoided, that tells more knowledgeable breeders that "these two should never be mated".

maybe this is true in your breed of choice, it isn't in mine. the breeders i know are doing the health testing required to ensure their breeding dogs pass on good genetics to their offspring and many of them go above and beyond the typical health issues like hip dysplasia, heart disease, thyroid problems and eye diseases. temperament is a HUGE consideration. these breeders also require a contract that stipulates they will have first right of refusal if a dog resulting from any of their breedings is, for whatever reason, unable to stay with the original buyer. their puppy buyers can be assured that the breeder will always be there for support throughout the life of their pet.

yes, the cost of these puppies is more but the buyer is paying for what almost always turns out to be an exemplary representative of the breed. all 3 of my reputably bred danes came to me as either an older puppy (11 months) or an adult dog (3 years) and my cost was whatever the vet charged for spay/neuter/gastropexy.

it's ludicrous to claim that responsible breeders do what they do because "that's where the money is". they do what they do for the love of their chosen breed and to keep the original breed characteristics intact.

My information is from a vet who’s a boarded specialist. One with more than double the years of education and training of the vast majority of vets in general practice without a specialty credential .

Your info is from …..?

if this question is directed at me, information about what, exactly?

" it's ludicrous to claim that responsible breeders do what they do because "that's where the money is". they do what they do for the love of their chosen breed and to keep the original breed characteristics intact. "

The vet I know wouldn't agree with this. Are you active and in contact nationally with the show breeders of the type of dog you like? I repeated a broad generality that a vet once told me. Call it a notion most vets share, which I think makes the comment pretty authoritative. You think it's otherwise. Is that anything more than your personal opinion or wish?

I remembered something else .In addition to genetic analysis, a technique to minimize problems of inbreeding that responsible breeders use,isto obtain breeding dogs from other parts of the country. Or even, when feasible, from other countries.

IME, regarding *anything*, it's wise to "Follow The Money".

Where did I first hear that? Regarding the Baby Adoption Industry -- still going, bigger bucks.

Oddly I just watched an interview with the Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Leslie Rollins, who said they will start shutting down puppy mills.....hurray! Of course she was appointed by the orange guy so can you people still muster up a hurray?

The plan will drastically increase the price of puppies when many of the 10,000 breeding facilities are shut down and the others are strictly regulated to provided humane treatment, so will this bother anyone?

It shouldn't bother anyone, but the orange guy hates animals and never had a dog, so he won't care.

@outpaientzero it’s good news fot sure but like with other promises, I won’t hold my breath. Do you think that most people who run puppy mills are his supporters?

I'm not sure olychick, but I do know those people in Minnesota who defrauded billions from the government in the name of poor hungry children were definitely NOT his supporters, and more then likely the kind of people running illegal puppy mills.

but the orange guy hates animals.

Please post a link that shows proof of this. I see a quote saying that he wouldn't mind having a dog but would not have time to care for one.

The previous guy had a dog that was so poorly trained that it bit his secret service agents and had to be banished. Maybe he shouldn't have had a dog either.

Are you active and in contact nationally with the show breeders of the type of dog you like?

i am not active in showing, never have been. but, put me in a room with this vet and i'd venture to say i personally know and am in regular contact with more preservation breeders of my chosen breed than s/he has known, probably in his/her lifetime.

All I know is I am for anything that shuts down puppy mills. Abhorent practices. I can only speak with authority on my breed of choice, but nearly every puppy mill dog in my breed will come with various health issues. Be prepared spend lots of time and money and get a fabulous veterinarian on speed dial.

The people who buy mill dogs generally end up spending way more on medical care than they would have if they had paid more up front and bought a puppy from a reputable breeder. In general of course. And before anyone yells at me, I am only talking about the breed I know. It may be different for other breeds....but I kind of doubt it.

And virtually all the dogs in rescue come from mills, because the responsible breeders make you sign a contract that specifies the dog will be returned to them if you ever can't keep it. The mill never wants to see you again after the check clears.

The trouble is that many people who want a certain breed, either don't know the dog is from a puppy mill or they don't care. And then the problems begin and the dog ends up in a shelter.

The new law that has been proposed isn't going to close all commercial breeders, but will close a lot of loopholes that have allowed commercial breeders to skirt current animal protection laws and will set minimum standards of care for every dog owned/bred in a commercial breeding operation. It is limited to breeders who are selling more than 50 puppies a year and from what I understand will require licensing of any breeder selling more than 50 puppies a year. Few backyard breeders or show/field line breeders meet this criteria and the show breeders that do produce more than 50 puppies a year will generally already exceed the minimum care standards outlined in the law. (Food and water at least twice a day, solid flooring, daily exercise, temperature limits . . .)

There are still going to be illegal operations and people skirting the laws, but I am hopeful that it will reduce the number of dogs being produced through puppy mills.

My son’s dog was a discarded mama from a puppy mill. She is the sweetest dog ever. Two of my neighbors also adopted discarded mother dogs. Unfortunately there are Amish puppy mills in Pennsylvania and its very sad.

Elmer

" Small backyard breeders are less concerning to me. Breeders who are responsible show or field dog breeders aren't generally the problem either "

My information is the opposite, these are among the hot spots of the problem.. Small time operators don't know enough to be careful and selective to avoid perpetuating dangerous traits. Show animal breeders go overboard trying to produce animals that meet breed-specific specs because that's where the money is, what their customers want. In doing so, they often ignore the damaging characteristics present in two parents that should be avoided, that tells more knowledgeable breeders that "these two should never be mated".

We have puppy mills - commercial breeders that flood the market with between 2 and 4 million puppies a year. These dogs are bred back to back with no time to recuperate between breedings. They are often kept in horrible conditions, given minimal medical care, have genetic health issues, have no socialization, this is just a factory producing puppies. Many, if genetically tested, would not even really be the breed they were sold and registered as.

Then we have small operators, backyard breeders aka hobby breeders or show/field breeders.

You really think that small backyard breeders and show/field breeders are less qualified and produce poorer quality animals than commercial breeders (puppy mills)?

To maintain breed standards dogs need to be bred by someone.

Out of curiosity, where did you get your dogs? Pure bred GSD - Commercial Breeder, Show/field breeder or backyard hobby breeder?

Elmer, What makes you think a board certified vet has broader experience with multiple breeds than a general practice vet? A board certified orthopedic surgeon will probably have a high degree of knowledge of breeds that are predisposed to knee or hip issues, but may not have any knowledge about breeds that are prone to eye or skin disorders. The board certified ophthalmologist or dermatologist will have deeper knowledge of those breeds. A veterinarian who is a board certified equine practitioner or will probably have little specific knowledge of dog breeds.

I knew quite a few of the USDA veterinarians who were mostly board certified, but inspected dairy farms, chicken farms, pig farms . . . one worked with the San Diego Zoo and Wild Animal Park with ungulates (large hooved animals). Their education and work experience provided little specialized knowledge of dog breeds and would often ask me about specific breed traits or issues when they had a question. The vets who were board certified in shelter management and the simple not board certified vets who had general practices probably had the broadest dog breed knowledge.

From responsible, ethical breeders who were VERY plugged in to not focusing or spreading negative breed inherited traits. One good example of this that's sadly becoming too prevalent with Shepherds is how common dogs with sloping and not level backs have become. Historically the breed had level backs - the sloping backs can cause debilitating dysplasia. The sloping backs puts the hind legs at an extreme angle to the hip joint. That causes wear and arthritis in at hip joint and often can lead to pain and mobility problems as the years advance. In mid-life years or even earlier, not just in old age.

As I recall, at least 2 of them traced ancestry beyond the parents and had prospective breeding pairs subjected to the PennHIP analysis, to avoid enhanced risk of dysplasia in the offspring. All of our dogs, the first two simply because of careful breeding using pre-PennHIP methods, had level backs. None had any hip or elbow problems.

Show breeding techniques are interested in mostly emphasizing appearance for competitions and de-emphasize other factors that may be critical for a dog's intelligence, health and longevity. Given the choice between the appearance of dogs in a litter versus the holistic health and well being of a litter, the first gets preference with show breeders. For the reason I explained above.

until state Departments of Agriculture or similar animal welfare agencies actually make a concerted effort to stay on top of inspections of breeders who continuously pump out litter after litter of puppies, all of the proposed laws and existing laws pertaining to animal welfare will continue to be ignored.

I missed the second comment:

" Elmer, What makes you think a board certified vet has broader experience with multiple breeds than a general practice vet? "

Residency slots are small in number and very competitive. About 20% of vets have such a designation but not all work in clinical jobs. If you think that this 20% is the bottom part of the bell curve of capability and knowledge, guess again and look to the other side of the curve. Many are not in jobs that the owner of a companion animal would encounter.

The rest of your examples are silly. Does an orthopedic surgeon know about skin conditions? No, of course not. Does a medical psychiatrist know anything about the health and treatment of horses and cows. Are USDA vets who inspect hog farms, slaughter houses, and the like experts on canine parvovirus? No, of course not. And don't forget that it's a very small percentage of USDA food inspectors who are vets.

Again, from the same source, USDA vets don't tend to be the best and brightest. Some may have large animal credentials (I know one) and those jobs in private practice tend to be limited in number and at the very low end of the compensation scale. Working for the feds pays more.

There's no need to continue this. Your comments seem to be formed from the outside looking in, formulating views from your observations without calibration with those who really know.

@outpaientzero - The plan will drastically increase the price of puppies when many of the 10,000 breeding facilities are shut down and the others are strictly regulated to provided humane treatment, so will this bother anyone?

I am sure there will be some people who are upset that they have to pay more for a puppy in order to save thousands of dogs from inhumane treatment, but isn't that true whenever we have tightened regulations that cause compliance costs to rise?

Maybe the answer is that we should reduce income disparity and make everything more affordable for those who are not in the top 0.1%.

The price of dogs won’t go up in a vacuum. The question becomes what comes next.

Elmer,

This was my original statement:

Small backyard breeders are less concerning to me. Responsible show or field dog breeders generally aren't the problem either, but commercial dog breeders are a significant concern.

To clarify, my statement compared the types of breeders in terms of ethical concerns. This is not just a casual opinion. It’s a comparative assessment based on decades of experience and the consensus of leading animal welfare organizations.

Here’s the breakdown:

1. Commercial breeders (puppy mills): These operations are notorious for inhumane, high-volume breeding, poor health standards, unsanitary conditions, minimal veterinary care, and substandard nutrition. They are the epicenter of unethical practices.
2. Small backyard breeders (hobby breeders): While not perfect, their impact pales in comparison.
3. Responsible show breeders: Note the qualifier "Responsible"
4. Field dog breeders: Focused on breeding for dogs for hunting, herding, or other working purposes.

You responded:

“My information is the opposite, these are among the hot spots of the problem…”

Are you seriously suggesting that small-scale or responsible breeders are a bigger threat than the industrial-scale cruelty of puppy mills?

My stance is grounded in 25 years of professional experience in the humane industry and aligned with the HSUS and the ASPCA who have both identified puppy mills as the primary source of unethical breeding in the United States.

Your perspective, by contrast, appears to rely on limited personal anecdotes, ownership of a few German Shepherds and the opinion of some veterinarian with a board certification in some unknown specialty.

The horse has been beaten to death, call the large animal vet to find out how to dispose of the carcass.

Merry Christmas to you and yours.

Elmer, thank you for the holiday wishes. Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.

@outpaientzero - I have a grand niece who is 5 years old and just recently started to pretend that she didn't do something. You try not to laugh but it is difficult when she is standing there and being so overly animated as she explains that she doesn't know why there is milk on the table, maybe Harper (their dog) knocked it over when no one was looking. If her mom says, Harper was in his crate, he couldn't have knocked it over and you see the shoulders shrug up to her ears and both hands raised, big eyes and a big inhale and "I don't know how it got on the table" as she shakes her head side to side and then sighs heavily and just looks at her mom.

Her mom is trying to remember not to ask what happened, but to just respond with "I see you spilled your milk, lets get some paper towels and clean this up." The rest of us are secretly hoping that she forgets or someone else forgets and asks her what happened. . . these show is just too entertaining. (My sister took a video of her doing this so we can show it to her boyfriend when she is 17!)

I wonder if Elmer's parents enjoyed the show so much that they never corrected the behavior and he never learned that it was okay to admit that you spilled your milk. Maybe his parents were too reactive and made him fear admitting the truth. I just know he apparently has no other tools beyond twisting his words, twisting the words of others and if cornered attacking or dismissing others.

In the humane industry we often reminded people that "Scared Dogs Bite". The most dangerous thing you can do is corner a scared dog and not leave them a way out. People are not much different. I just have to remind myself in the future that Elmer is a scared pup.

This is why I simply thanked him and wished him a Merry Christmas.

Jennifer, I'm reluctant to acknowledge your baseless insults but really - grow up. I will ignore you going forward - please return the favor and ignore me.