Thanks, Elmer and Plllog. That bit of marketing indiced temptation has gone.

Back to steel.

PS I say ”back” to steel, but I never left — carbon steel, cast iron, enamel coated and stainless. But they work, I already own them. Yay.

At Christmas I gifted myself an Esteele (Italian) non-stick skillet as I wanted a really big skillet that was also non stick. It wasn't cheap but it also wouldn't shred Teflon into my food.

It's awesome and I love it! It is very non-stick- I can fry with minimal or no fat. It doesn't have to be babied, and it washes clean, usually with just a sponge and no scrubbing, even when it seems like there is cooked on residue. It was highly rated by a well known cooking forum here, and I would totally recommend it as well. I'm thinking of gifting my DD with one.

Not to put too fine a point on it,

➡️ https://www.reddit.com/r/cookware/comments/z2drot/my_experience_with_hexclad_warning_to_anyone/

I don't want to piggy back on your thread....Please pardon my ceramic non-stick ignorance...but...can anyone tell me if a ceramic non-stick coating is any good?

Note: I own a Wedgwood Dupont Teflon 8" pan, it's never been out of the package. Hubby just decided he wants a non-stick pan to cook 2 eggs in "every" morning. I'm AFRAID to use it!

I'm sorry. I was just mentioning a popular alternative. I gave some to one of the college kids several years ago, thinking it would help an inexperienced cook, but she's had a lot of living with people issues and most of her nice kitchen things are at home. Check out the Serious Eats article I linked above. They compare ceramic lined pans without fat for eggs and omelettes.

Thanks plllog. Good article. Earlier today, I ordered a "cheap" ceramic 8" skillet by Sedona from Macy's, I'll pick it up tomorrow. On Sale: $9.99 I figured @ that price, he's got something "safe" to use. If it starts to stick...more butter! For a CHEAP pan it's kind-of PRETTY! Link to see it

Hi nicole, no apology needed. I am also curious.

Thanks plllog for the info.

They have a ceramic 13" By Sedona too. The largest pan I own is 12"....so this looks appealing too.

The article did imply that the lower priced pans weren't so non-sticky, but if there's some butter with the egg, no problem.

A pan that can’t take high heat seems pretty limiting.

One thing I do to release stuck food from a pan is to turn up the heat then drip in just a little bit of water. Kind of how you release pot stickers. The water bursts into steam and helps break the stick.

I have a 14" Circulon flat bottom wok that is anodized and therefore nonstick. I bought it in 2020, right before my kitchen renovation at the Salem house, and I have really liked it. It was a cheaper when I bought it because it had a $9 off coupon on Amazon. It is very nonstick and I believe it is safe because it is anodized aluminum, but it is also induction ready, and so it must have some steel or iron sandwiched in at the bottom. It is great for stir frying and sautéing because the sides are so high that nothing can jump out. It is available from other sources, but Amazon no longer has it in inventory.

I'm afraid that cookware is going to get quite a bit more expensive quickly, once the effect of tariffs is felt.

Fortunately, in my new kitchen on Risueno, I have bottom drawers large enough for storing this pan easily. Before, I stored it on top of the upper cabinets because the kitchen had a cathedral ceiling, and therefore the cabinets could not go to the ceiling.

nicole, I have a 6” Tefal (non-stick) that I sometimes use for easy over eggs (2). I use a little bit of butter. It is lightweight and works very well. Inexpensive.

we never ”preheat” a non-stick pan on the burner — that is verboten.

This ATK article may be helpful.

Are Nonstick Pans Safe? Should I Replace Them?

Non-stick, ceramic and non-stick alternatives are discussed.

➡️ https://www.americastestkitchen.com/articles/7586-are-nonstick-pans-skillets-safe-toxic

@petalique...I have several anodized aluminum pans, little ones and the Wedgewood Teflon coated one....brand new, never used. But....it's for hubby, not me. He wants to flip an egg without butter...look like a chef. He's thrilled with the teflon pan...and I'm worried. I'm picking up the 8" ceramic coated pan tomorrow. If it's terrible I'll return it...I'm hoping he puts butter in the pan and will love it! ??? We shall see how this goes. He was blowing up eggs in the microwave....I tried helping...that's when he decided to fry them in a pan.

(He's retired, not working at all...and he's taking over helping with laundry, house cleaning...and cooking his own breakfast. This is ALL something new. 🥴 I used to make 60 breakfast burritos and freeze them or egg-sausage-cheese on an English muffin, for him to take to work.....now...he's cooking eggs. He can boil water too. Oatmeal! I'm thrilled! )

The ceramic coated pan you are getting should work fine. I have some like these, and they are my favorites for cooking eggs. However, you are not supposed to heat these pans more than 350°, and I also do not put them in the dishwasher - all they need for cleaning is a wipe with a paper towel. DW detergent can be too harsh for these pans, as well as the heat during the drying process. Anyway, they do not need much cleaning.

I made a mushroom omelet for breakfast this morning with Gouda cheese, and I added Sauvignon Blanc wine and thyme to the mushrooms to give them more flavor. I use three eggs, and this makes a large enough omelet for Kevin and me.

The Esteele pan I have is Teflon free but amazingly non stick- stuff just slides around in it. And unlike Teflon, if I was so minded I could use a metal utensil in it.

I was curious. The descriptions of the pans is cagey, but there is a page on the Esteele company site which is upfront about the non-stick. It's PTFE. They say it's non-toxic to ingest, but also that it shouldn't come off. PTFE is the abbreviation for the chemical in Teflon, which is the brand name. PFOE is the one with the fumes. The issue with teflon was the flaking, and it sounds like Esteele are saying they solved that. This is from an Australian company that bought the Italian one. I'd never heard of it before. It doesn't appear to be available in the USA. The issues, if I understand correctly, aren't with the Teflon/PTFE, but that it has been processed with PFOE, or a newer chemical which is thought to be equally bad for the environment.

https://www.essteele.com.au/pages/pfoa

Colleen, I'm glad you like it so much. I'm not trying to rain on that! Just wondering what it was. I keep reading both yes and no on heat limitations. Does the literature with your pot say anything about that?

Re “ceramic”, from what I understand they shed silicone oil to make it nonstick, and once all is shed that’s it. The silicone oil itself should be non-toxic in such small amounts, but there’s always the question of what else these coatings are actually made of.

I’m slowly weaning off this non-stick stuff, as I am with plastic. My own experience, much of what I typically used non-stick for doesn’t really need it. I’ll keep a couple gently handled pans on deck for when they’re really needed.

nicole, that’s so sweet about your DH. I can just imagine him and his energy. I suggest he use a little bit of butter, almost butter or oil even in a non-stickish pan.

My sister has one of these dedicated egg cookers and she feally likes it. She’s a good cook but find that little gadget accurate and helpful. Have you seen them?

colleen, I’m glad you like your pan.

plllog, I too kept finding info about those chemicals for non-stick — some info seemed to contradict the marketing narratives. Who’d a thunk it?

Food, I am sort of where you are, I think.

petalique....Yes, I'd looked at the plastic dedicated egg cookers. I have little plastic butter tubs I use. Makes a perfect circular egg that fits on the Eng. muffin! DH couldn't keep the egg from exploding. DH is a little freaked out about contaminates, plastic in general. Now we're onto "safe" metal non-stick pans. I don't use non-stick pans myself.

I picked up the one from Macy's. It's very light weight! Pretty! I'll report back when we've cooked eggs in it.

My views and practices are similar to food's as he describes above.

We discarded plastic implements and containers long ago. We use non-stick pans sparingly, mostly just for eggs (which we don't eat all that often).

Good old fashioned Corning Ware products with plastic lids for storage (along with other glass storage products similarly equipped) are of greater interest and more useful for us than ever before.

Um... I'm at the edge of what my school chemistry knowledge can decipher, but I can't find an authoritative source that says the "ceramic" is silicone (as in polymer). They say "silica" or "silicon" as in sand. I find some that say the ceramic non-stick pan lining will degrade with use and others that don't, and bottom line, the composition is trade secret and different vendors may have their own, differeing formulations.

I can't find a well worded definition, but, IIUC, there are processes in glass-making and other use of silica that are considered "ceramic". And somewhere is where the two collide as in glass-ceramic and pyroceram.

And at this point I think I should return to knitting...

A little butter, spatula FREE flipping! Now in a year how will it perform....I'll report back. The metal handle does start to heat up! It needs a hot handle cover...I'll go sew one up!

@plllog - I could be wrong. I do see the word ”silicone oil” used by one manufacturer, but could be a translation issue. That’s not the source I saw before which I’m not seeing offhand now.

@plllog, I'll have to see if I have the literature that came with the pan- DH may have tossed it.

Thought of this thread yesterday when I saw CNN Underscore named Hexclad the ”best restaurant quality nonstick”.

https://www.cnn.com/cnn-underscored/reviews/best-nonstick-pans

Although I haven’t read the article, they seem to discuss best use and care practices. Thought it might be of interest to some.

Thanks, Food. I’ll look at it.

I did. They were lazy and just echoed the marketing hype. No critical eye,either. HexClad ””lifetime warranty” (I read elsewhere) is only available (such as it is) if you purchase from them directly.

There is a lot of negative conversation about the company and pans online (Reddit, for example).

I just bought a set of Green Pan ceramic, the Valencia model. I believe it was recommended by ATK. Too bad these pans don't last longer than they do, like the regular skillets.

Petalique - I often wonder about these reviews, do they really put things through the same long term treatment they receive in our kitchens? And then, what’s deemed important. I couldn’t give a hoot about raw metal rivets getting some burnt on stains, if the pan is otherwise great. The differences in ratings between say Wirecutter, Underscored, and Serious Eats tells me everyone has different priorities.

Me, as I’ve said, I’m just weening off non-stick. I’ll always own a few non-stick pans which I’ll only use when actually needed, at low heat, and hopefully baby enough that they don’t end up in the landfill within a year.

I hate the rivets. Not because of stains, per se but they creep my out. Demeyer's rivits are covered by the cladding surface, and they're really good for cooking in. :)

After reading all the posts in this thread, I tossed our last three All-Clad skillets in the trash and replaced them with genuine Hexclad. Bought directly from their website and all three were on sale! The teflon in the All-Clad skillets was gouged and chipped from 25 years of use and abuse. Cooked our first two dinners in the new skillets and can't honestly say they were any different from the All-Clad ones.

No different from how you remember the All Clad being 25 years ago, or as goof as the 25 year old All Clad was?

The All-Clad came from my second wife. She bought them in 2000, long before we met. I kept using them after she was gone, but they were already damaged. The cook time seems to be the same. The Hexclad heats up just as fast, but it does require less cooking oil.

I have read that it is not prudent to buy expensive, high end non-stick or Teflon like pans.

The reason is that the non-stick coating is the weakest link. It is known to not be durable., thus a waste of money to spend a lot fora non-stick pan. The most expensive non-stick, Teflon like pan will last no longer than the inexpensive ones.

Riveted handles are better than welded or tacked handles. The Demeyer pans are very expensive.

$170 for a 1.5 Qt. saucepan with lid. I don’t have that sort of cash.

Can I still be in the club? ;)

Petalique, I’d largely agree with that but of course there’s still the issue of heat conducting/holding properties. A cheap thin pan might be nonstick but it won’t cook well. And there IS a difference between good and bad costings. Some are far less durable.

Not knowing any better, I bought a set of Calphalon Commercial in the early 2000’s. It actually held up pretry well, but when it was time to exercise their lifetime warranty the line was disontinued and they sent a ”comparable” set. That didn’t last long at all so replacement round 2 I tried to convince them to send me their similarly priced tri ply, but they wouldn’t. I’ll give Calphalon credit for honoring their warranty with ease, but their non-stick is just not very good.

I believe Iread that caveat at someplace savvy, perhaps at serious eats.

We have a few Teflon like skillets. Somewhere, out of sight, we have a ? Calphalon or similar large, ~’everything’ ~ pan. Seriously, I have misplaced it!

I tend to use the larger stainless wide (for decades, before the term became commonplace, I referred to it as the ”everything” pan.

As long as a pan, pot seems well made, durable and feels right, I don’t focus on or notice if it’s tri-ply or platinum cored. I have never bought a ”set” of any pans, cookware or knives, but buy what I need, can afford and what works. I did inherit a set of (by now vintage) Le Creuset, but only use about half of it.

PS That Hex-clad stuff does look cool.

Restaurants, good ones, are known for buying stacks of cheap, thin, nonstick pans and using them unkindly until they're wrecked, and they dispose of them. I spent a year in my youth, cooking and learning to cook daily, out of necessity, with only the cheap thin stamped pots that came with the place, cheap, crummy knives, and a few indulgent tools that took a lot of my pay, like a garlic press and a ladle. There was a lot of adventure in that kitchen, and I figured out how to cook most everything I put my mind to, but the cheap stamped pots were fine. Could you get the shape of the gas ring scorched into the soup? Sure. But knowing one's equipment, and it's limitations, I would call that operator error, and not the pot's fault, even if a fancier one would have distributed the heat better.

Petalique, I wasn't suggesting Demeyer was for everyone. I only have a skillet and a few odd specialty pieces. I was just responding to the rivet thing about staining, because they have rivets, but those aren't inside the pans, They aren't non stick either. It was just a side note meant as a small jest.

Plllog ;) No need to explain. Those pans look lovely. Some her have them and really like them.

I am a frugal Yankee with a thin purse. I just cooked with that 20 year old everything wide SS pan. Calphalon. One of us had the heat too high one time, apparently. The bottom is a bit warped. Stuff like that is annoying. On a hot, humid day, that is the sort of annoyance (jiggle jiggle jiggle) that would have me shopping for a replacement.

Thanks for telling us about production kitchens. I was thinking that they would be utilitarian about pots and pans.

I just learned a new term today — “86.”

My father, a Navy guy, used to use the term ”deep six” and named one of his motor boats that.

If I said that I thought an official should be tossed over, removed, is that a big deal? I don’t think so. Pitched into the bin, not vaporized, hahaha.

Hot and humid here today. DH put a new AC unit in the window. Ahhhhh. Relief.

I would like a better kitchen, replacement flooring, replacement countertop and a better peppermill.

Okay, there's also a price, but the Atlas peppermill is the best.

Thanks, plllog. About 6 weeks ago I spent days looking at the offerings and reviews and photos of peppermills on Amaz..I also read magazine and other reviews. I thought, if money no issue, maybe Hex*—— or Black Rain electric.

I have a bunch of other peppermills, but it takes forever for them to give me pepper. The Perfex is really slow (38 years old, but still) and now hold Sichuan “peppercorns” husks. I have a Cole and Mason that takes a lot of wrist action to produce a teaspoon.

I suppose could use a coffee mill/spice grinder, then store the 3 Tbl pepper in a small container, but, meh.

I have some hand issues, so don’t want to aggravate my hands and wrists.

The ?Black Rain or whatever grinder is close to $200. Yikes.

I read revoews of the Oxo and the Derwent (touted by ATK). The Mannkitchen is $$ expensive and overkill.

I want one that cangive differnent grinds, doesn’t tax my hands/wrists, and can produce pepper. MaybeI should try my lawn mower.

The Atlas looks attractive, but is it (still) quality? Some of the photos and commments on Amaz lead me to suspect it’s no longer built well. And is it hard on sore hands?

Above photo from Amazon photos, reviews.

When I think of cheap, stamped pans I think of the stuff one might find in an efficiency motel or furnished corporate apartment. Just because one ”can” cook something in them doesn’t mean they’re not trash. IMO calling it ”operator error” is far too generous. The cheapest pans at my restaurant supply house are stainless with aluminum discs sandwiched in the base. No stamped stuff, at least not for skillets/frying pans.

FOAS, Nothing so fancy. This was decades ago abroad. Thin metal. A two litre pot and 15 cm pan. Plus a few more identical left by previous. Also served as mixing and serving pieces. All one piece each out of sheet goods, plus handles. I wasn't saying anyone would choose them. Just that it is possible to cook just about anything with bad pots, given a little care and ingenuity.

Petalique, I've had my Atlas for 15 years, so can't speak to the current ones. AFAIK, they're the same ones that have been made for many decades. I noticed that they were using them, without calling them out for advertising on a big cooking competition—maybe Tournament of Champions. If in doubt, go for the brass (original).

I keep mine on very fine. Maybe tomorrow I'll have time and wakefulness to play with the adjustment screw. I don't know if it goes to very coarse, but it is adjustable. For fine grind Tallicherry peppercorns there's practically no resistence. It goes round and round. If holding the handle is hard, you could adapt a pen gripper or similar to it. Of all the pepper grinders and mills I've used, it's by far the easiest to operate, with the most uniform, even grind, and it hasn't worn down, or gotten harder to use at all. I've given a number as wedding presents.

The matching salt mill, which I got in a shorter size several years later, is lined with plastic to protect the metal, but the outside is darkened from the salt, and it can build up crystal crusties. It works fine, but takes maintenence to stay pretty.

I am looking them over. So it is not hard to grind? Does it deliver a lot of pepper? My existing ones ”work” but each twist or crank doesnt produce much.

Does the brass get very tarnished? Somewhere I saw a brass one w a bot of copper. Sharp looking.

These are gorgeous looking. Would you suggest an 8” or 9”?

I didn't see a variety, if it existed, when I bought my peppermill. It's 9” brass. I have brass in my kitchen decor, too. It hasn't tarnished at all, but it's mostly handled with clean dry hands. It doesn't make a lot per circle of the handle, as I find appropriate for pepper. For a dish sized for four goodly servings, I might use 4-6 circles, and more if I want it to be pepppery. But as I said, it doesn't require cutting pressure, and goes around easily.

Several years later, I got an 8” brass salt. That took awhile to tarnish. I haven't bothered polishing it because I think it's the salt rather than a failure of the finish.

I have a thing to do, but then I can go do a trial and take a picture.

Well. The minions have been doing someting wet to my beautiful peppermill. I admit to not looking at it while using for awhile, just using it. The handle is very tarnished. The body is a little tarnished. I think I know who it was.. Grrr. It'll shine up. It's impossible to show the grind difference. I remember now about the results. The adjustment screw takes you from fine to ultrafine. Also, when I started there was a little resistance, though it went back to normal quickly. I don't know if that same minion messed it up, or the oxidation did, or age or what, but it's a big concern, so I wanted to say right away.

Btw, the salt mill is the only one I've used that grinds big sea salt crystals evenly.

You might also want to loos at Finamill. It's electric (battery) with pods, so you can keep your salt, pepper, cardamom, coriander, etc., in the pods and just move the works. I haven't been using mine enough, but just from lack of setting aside time to fill pods. The basic pod doesn't do really fine, but adjusts from not-coarse to coarse, on sea salt. It might be too heavy for you, however.

Thanks, plllog. Your brass mills look just fine.

I have not gotten a new peppermill yet. A bit chaotic here.

I was considering the Hex-clad, but the thing weighs 2 pounds empty! It is also tall.

The Mannkitchen is nice, but $200 and probably a bit overkill for my needs.

I have a cole-mason that takes 10 twists to produce .5 tsp.. aybe it needs ”cleaning” or to be tossed — donated to someone who hates black pepper.

The Atlas brass are light, as these things go, but I don't know that it makes so much per twist.

“donated to someone who hates black pepper.”

😂😂😂