Having used Hario equipment for as long as I can remember and being very happy with the outcome, and being not inclined to fix what ain't broke, I have no interest in metal cones. But, I do have two questions about them:

1) How do you get the used coffee grounds out? Where do they wind up and how?

2)How quickly does water flow out when making coffee?

It's always seemed to me, maybe mistakenly, that the slow passage of water needing to ooze through the paper filters is part of the process, adding to the "water in contact with the coffee" time to allow full flavor extraction. I wonder what the result would be If a side by side comparison were done. A ceramic or metal cone with just a paper filter in it alongside an empty metal screen cone. Pour 6 ounces of water into each at the same time, which would be empty first?

I ignore the recommended drip grind setting on the coffee grinder and instead use something in between drip and espresso. I find the coffee tastes bette when doing so and it may because of greater surface area for coffee/water contact.

I also remember reading a while back that off-tasting sediments are trapped by paper filters but not by other preparation methods. I saw that long enough ago to not remember details but I mention it in case someone else saw that too.

A grinder is always going to make at least some murk making particles no matter what the grind size. Using a cone designed to make one cup that drips into a heated cup is just easy. If you want to save the planet and forgo paper there is always cloth. dump and toss in wash. Or go with the stainless and don't drink the last slurp.

I believe replanting forests and using that wood for paper products is an effective approach to capturing carbon from the atmosphere. Arguably, using paper produced in that way does more to save the planet than not using paper. Also, I believe making ceramic items to use instead of steel ones is significantly more eco-friendly.

For those opposed to paper filters, you can now purchase bamboo filters. Although i don’t think they are 100% bamboo.

Also, for anyone watching their cholesterol, paper filters trap all the coffee compounds which raise cholesterol.

I have this French press, in fact I have two because Amazon sent me two by mistake and didn't want the other one back. Sucura French Press (I had to delete the link because it brought it up in my personal account)

I like it just fine. I bought it in 2018. Then sent a packet of replacement filters with them but I haven't changed it yet. It gets washed and set out to dry.

“1) How do you get the used coffee grounds out? Where do they wind up and how?

2)How quickly does water flow out when making coffee?”

My answers to Elmer’s questions for each of the methods I use.

French Press:

1. After pressing, I dump the grounds into my organics bin.
2. As you probably know, the grounds are suspended in the heated water for as long as I wish until they are pressed (20 minutes).

Pour over:

1. I dump the grounds into my organics bin.
2. Four to five minutes.

Cold Brew:

1. I dump the grounds into my organics bin.
2. The grounds are suspended in cool water for as long as I wish until they are drained (3 days)

Travel Mug:

1. I dump the grounds into my organics bin.
2. My Contigo travel mug has a small filter/basket, and the grounds are immersed in hot water for as long as I wish until I remove the basket (about 30 minutes).

I forgot to mention that I have a “regular” drip coffee pot.

1. I dump the grounds into my organics bin.
2. Twenty minutes.

Haha Donna. Touché
Here's the thing I was concerned about. With your pour over cone, coffee maker, French press, all of which (except French Press) must have mesh sides - grounds must stick to the sides to some extent and bottoms and not stay suspended in water. And sludge in the bottom of cups. How do you get those out?

Rinsing such things in the sink is a non-starter for me. Coffee grounds down the drain are notorious for causing clogs. And I have no organics bin. So, how would I use one of these?

Thank you all. I did order this gizmo. I can try it out Monday morning.

I can knock out used grounds in the garbage and rinse the remains in the sink. If a LOT of grounds remain I could wait until they dry to dump them -- or even save up enough to scatter them in a garden bed to deter our Ravenous Rabbits.

One reason we reconsidered coffee is because Lavazza discontinued the Gran Selezione fine ground variety we'd liked for several years. DS has recommended Columbian Supremo beans in a silver bag from Cost-co. I'll have to decide how to grind these in our little old grinder that has 18 settings, fine to coarse -- if it's even worth it for such a small amount. (I'd not do this daily!)

I use a single serve French Press every morning. DH uses an Aeropress. I'm not bothered by the small amount of silt (less than half a teaspoon) in the bottom of the cup but if I was I'd use the fine mesh small strainer I pack to travel with in case we stay in a holiday cottage that doesn't have a French press or similar. Then I make my coffee in a suitable small container and pour it through the strainer.

Seems like a french press would serve you well. Small amount, metal mesh strainer. I purchased a cold press pitcher but I can't buy the grind needed to work optimally I really don't want ot buy yet another appliance. But if you make a concentrate you can make it one cup at a time and again no paper filter.

Elmer, correct me if I’m wrong. I think you mentioned in a previous post that you live in California, as do I. Governor Newsom signed Senate Bill 1046 last week. There may be an organics bin in your near future. Many garbage companies in California (mine included) have already brought out small bins for in-home usage. We’ve been notified that in 2025, they’ll start issuing fines for non-compliance. We want to reduce methane.

I have no dishwasher and no disposer in my double sink, so I am always careful about what goes into it. I always keep a mesh strainer in the drain (unless I’m washing dishes) to catch anything unwanted. After dumping the grounds in the organics bin, whatever is left of whichever vehicle was used to hold the grounds is rinsed in the sink. I then take the sink strainer back to the bin, turn it upside down and tap it smartly on the edge of the bin. I haven’t called for a plumber in quite a few years. I don’t have a sludge problem. That’s not to say I don’t have sludge. It’s just not enough to bother me. It’s all good.

Yes, it takes a bit more time, but totally worth it in my opinion.

Yes I do and I think that law is a feel good, do nothing measure. I do not comply with it.

I have two in-state locations and what is supplied for yard waste (large 96 gallon wheeled bins) is where food waste is supposed to be placed. The waste collectors in both areas do not permit using paper or plastic bags or even compostable bags for this purpose.

At one location, I probably have less than two grocery bags full of yard waste a week. More often, nothing. I have no way to easily hose out the bin which would in short order become a mess of spoiled fruit and veggies that would ooze and stick to the sides, coffee grounds that would stick, banana peels, etc.

At the other, I have two bins a week of yard waste but again, I'm not going to put food waste in to spoil and make a mess that would attract every wild animal in smelling distance. I'm not a gardener and compost piles also attract vermin and insects.

When they start assessing fines, I will accumulate food waste in plastic bags and deposit it daily at park bins and gas station refuse barrels.

I've spent a lifetime driving cars approrpriately sized to my needs that get good mileage. I'll wave at all the single passenger SUV and pickup drivers who can collect all the food waste they want, they'll never equal my cumulative record of having minimized dangerous atmospheric emissions.

I throw all coffee grounds at the base of my evergreen plants. I have a hedge of arborvitaes and they are doing great! :)

Elmer, the bit of residue left in the basket after emptying the grinds is not going to cause problems with the plumbing.

And, elswise............. we used to do pour over and it was such a lot of fuss to do first thing in the morning. I went out and bought an auto drip with a timer and now my coffee is waiting for me in the morning and i love it!

I also quit using Costco coffee. It began to taste bitter, no matter what variable we used. So, we quit buying it.

After a couple of years we decided to give it another try, thinking maybe it was a one time fluke. But, no. It is still bitter. Now I buy a premium coffee and use all the same water and method and there is no bitterness with the premium one, but the Costco one is not tolerable. I cant explain it. We had bought the Costco one for years, previously.

Costco brand coffee (I've never tried it) is roasted by Starbucks, which I find bitter or burnt. Try Peets from Costco.

I used to compost my grounds and other food waste but now I just bury them in one of my garden beds.

When I was young a plumber once told my mother to run coffee grounds down her drain to keep them clean of sludge and grease. It worked for her and me. I once had a plumber tell me I had the cleanest drains he had ever seen. You cant put grounds into you septic though. The small amount left after dumping is not a problem.

Elmer, like many people you can always find an excuse to not do environmentally friendly things around your home. In this case it amazes me you plan to go to all the trouble to pirate your waste into the trash bins of parks and businesses. That shows a remarkable resistance. What you are proposing is illegal in most places.

We have a stainless compost bucket in the kitchen. It is attractive and holds a gallon or so. It gets emptied into the composter in the yard. I rinse it and put it in the dishwasher. It is no more of a problem to keep clean than my favorite All-Clad Saucier. Do they have a plan for apartment dwellers?

“I think that law is a feel good, do nothing measure.”

Elmer I agree with you 100%.

More than a dozen years ago (before recycling at home) we had a 96-gallon garbage cart and a 96-gallon yard wast cart. When we were introduced to recycling at home we were given a green milk crate in which we placed newspapers, magazines, and bottles. Eventually, the crate was replaced with a large blue cart for recycle and we exchanged our 96-gallon garbage cart for 64-gallon cart.

Residences are only offered 96-gallon yard waste carts and the under sink bins. We have no lawn and no real garden, so only have a couple of bushes to occasionally trim. Of course I bag the under sink bin, then I have to empty it into the outdoor organics bin and throw the empty bag into the landfill bin. I am complying with the organics rule, but I doubt it will do much to reduce landfill. The garbage company sent another letter regarding organics and the wording was that this is their attempt at complying. That means they know it isn’t going to work.

Different garbage company at my small office (7 employees). Same rhetoric. About a year ago it became my task to get everyone on board. I tried. Labeled all the kitchen waste bins and each office waste bin. Posted pictures of what could be put into each bin. I knew it would take time, and for most of the year, I reminded employees that this and that were being placed in the wrong bins. I was the garbage police. The business owner was the worst offender. I went so far as to rinse his soup cans for a while, then finally decided no more.

I finally talked to him and he believes nothing is sorted at the garbage company, so it’s all landfill as far as he’s concerned and he doesn’t believe they’ll issue fines. I don’t worry anymore. IT’S ALL LANDFILL at the office.

But I’ll continue to comply at home, because I do believe it’s the right thing to do.

A tradidional way to dispose of kitchen waste back in the day was to wrap it in newspaper or other waste paper and then put it in the garbage. That might be a tidy solution for some except you put it in your compostable bin.

LOL, I haven't touched a "paper" newspaper in many moons.

" you can always find an excuse to not do environmentally friendly things "

You've misunderstood what I said. I've had many habits longer than some people have even known about them or bothered to care.

I believe in the 80/20 rule. 80% of consequences and outcomes come from 20% of causes and efforts. It makes a lot of sense to aim for 80% compliance. To spend 4 times the effort to get the last 20% makes no sense, especially when it involves steps one wants to not do.

I don't want a gallon of food waste.

I do not wish to have a gallon of food waste putrefying on the kitchen counters. If you're happy with that, fine, it doesn't make you a better person than I am.

My neighborhood where actual yard waste is sparce is not one of apartments. The color parade on garbage day (all three containers picked up on the same day) is telling. The presence of yard waste containers on the curb is probably less than 1 in 6 homes. I'll assume a few may have actual yard waste so that compliance with the food waste law remains low. Likely for reasons as I've expressed.

One of my daughters in law has parents who have practiced environmental consciousness for a very long time. Since the seventies, the parents have been strict vegetarians and my d in l remains so. The parents have large backyard gardens producing a wide variety of food, compost piles, bird feeders, and just about anything else that can be done to have a lighter footprint on the earth. It happens I saw her a few months ago and I asked her what she thought about the food waste separation rules. She rolled her eyes and said - "I'll call you when I decide to do that. No need to stay close to the phone, it won't be ringing anytime soon".

I haven't opened the Kirkland 3 lb bag of 'Columbian'. The same shipment contained three packages of Toblerone bars -- no refrigerant in 80 degree weather. Those are definitely going back. Well, two are. We've managed to eat all six bars of one package, soft though they were.

I've seen complaints that the previously enjoyed Kirkland 'Sumatra' (red bag) coftee is now terrible. I wonder about other brands of 100% Sumatra. I also wonder what top flight restaurants serve.

chisue, everyone has their preferences, but I personally would never, ever buy 3 pounds of coffee in a household of one coffee drinker. It's a food product and it degrades in flavor and aromatic essences with exposure to air. As this bag runs down (some months from now), have him compare the last cup made from the old bag and the first cup made from the new bag. If his preference is what I think it would be, he'll enjoy his coffee more buying a smaller quanity at a time.

It's not unusual for single source coffee as the Sumatra may be to vary from batch to batch, just as wine does.

We've been using the asobu stainless filter in our 6 cup chemex. The filter is very fine and am not getting the 'sludge' that I used to get with the gold/plastic filters I had tried. I'm happy to not be using the paper filter anymore and the cloth ones seemed to be hard to keep fresh.

Any extra coffee gets diluted and used to water the houseplants and garden plants in summer, so I don't mind making a full pot even if we don't drink it all - I love the look of a full pot of coffee.

You can freeze your coffee in smaller batches. Just be sure you use air tight containers. Coffee is the perfect substance to deodorize your fridge or freezer as it picks up odors and moisture. Perfect is using a vacuum sealer to seal up about a weeks' worth at a time. You want to take it out the night before you need it. Thawed is supposed to make a difference. You can buy small air tight containers though. That is easy.

As a food product for which fresher is better, ever so much so, why would anyone choose to freeze coffee? If one buys too large a quantity to use before it starts to lose freshness, a better solution is to buy in small quantities.

My little French Press makes 2 cups of coffee. I drink those in the morning and then sometime in the afternoon I will make some iced coffee with what remains in the press. Sometimes I have to add a little instant cold brew coffee to it but most of the time it is enough to make a glass full. I don't ever measure the coffee I grind so it's not always the same. The press is the perfect size for me. Also, not much sludge in the bottom. There is a tiny bit that I just don't drink.

Good point about excess beans, Elmer. I'll return the 3# bag.

Today we tried the Gator travel mug using the Lavazza 'Dolcevito' medium roast in the metal dripper. Lavazza's fine grind clogs in the little dripper, requiring a long time to pour the hot water. Other than that, it works fine. I knocked out the wet grounds and pushed any remaining out with my finger. There was almost nothing to rinse off.

I like this thing more than DH does, and I think it's a value at under $10.

A chuckle: This 12 oz.bag of coffee lists the Lavazza USA address on one side panel. Below that it says, "BEST BEFORE" and under that, "see date on reverse side". Those Italians, always joking!

Elmer, my favorite coffee does not come in a smaller size.

Since coffee starts losing quality from the time it is roasted we are all pretty much drinking old coffee. I was just pointing out that it can be frozen. You do need a tightly sealed container though as coffee absorbs everything. You want a tightly sealed container to store it in your pantry as well.

One of the great pleasures of my childhood was turning the little handle on the coffee roaster to roast the day's coffee. It was set in front of a fire. Then you got to grind it. Great Aunt Ella then ruined it by dumping it into a tall pot to boil. During the day she simply ground and threw in another cup of fresh grounds with more water creating sludge.

I have heard that vegetables frozen immediately at the time and point of harvest can taste fresher than those that are store bought. Asking here for info, not arguing, is coffee different so that unfrozen, but more time has been elapsed since harvest, would taste better? (IDK if frozen at the point of harvest coffee beans are even available, because of shipping issues).

Patricia, your recounting of being in charge of the roasting and grinding sounds like a strong, good memory. It's too bad about Great Aunt Ella, it sounds like she ruined a great beginning to a good cup of coffee.

" Elmer, my favorite coffee does not come in a smaller size. "

That's unusual. Don't most people buy sizes appropriate for their use so that products can be fresher? If only available in a size that's too big for one's use, I think most would look for alternatives in more appropriately sized packages, no?

If you put a small splash of milk in your coffee and a half teaspoon of sugar, would you buy a gallon of milk and a 10 pound bag of sugar if these were only used for that purpose?

I sometimes buy larger quantities of coffee from one of our local roasteries and freeze the excess. I like having it on hand. There is mo perceptible difference from the unfrozen.

" I have heard that vegetables frozen immediately at the time and point of harvest can taste fresher "

I think it's true for premium brands of frozen veggies that they're often from harvests at the peak of the season. The product is flash frozen very soon after it leaves the field. The thing is, their fresh equivalents from the next-door field can't get to a retail market in as few hours after harvest as when these items get to the freezing plant. That's why there can be a fresher taste.

" I sometimes buy larger quantities of coffee from one of our local roasteries and freeze the excess. I "

A local source and you intentionally buy much more than you need? I'm glad that works for you, sounds odd to me.

Say there were a local bakery open 6 days a week that made a special kind of bread that you eat regularly and absolutely love. Would you buy an extra loaf and freeze it "because you like having it on hand?"

A European, coming from where people shop many times a week, even daily, to get the freshest possible food, would laugh at that. Though it's been changing, fridges and freezers have long been much smaller there than here - they don't "store" as much food at any one time as North Americans do.

Where I lived, bakeries, though generally closed on Sundays, would open for a few hours in the morning so people could get fresh bread items for breakfast. For them, something same day was better than something from the day before. Frozen? Heavens no unless unavoidable. But then usually purchased frozen, not frozen at home.

Elmer, we do not all live down the street from a bakery. I live a half hour from the stores.

Life is full of compromise. We have any number of small roasters around here and if I didn't mind spending my life running all over the county I could buy small lots but I don't.

Isn't it about priorities? Priorities lead to compromises, not the other way around.

I don't consider making more frequent store trips or a 30 minute drive to get somewhere, if these are required to get things we want and when we want them, a problem. No compromises involved. If you're troubled by that, fine.

Elmer you are the only one here who seems to be troubled by anything and everything and anyone who doesn’t conform to your self centered and narrow views. On every post, on every subject.

Well this is a good point to interject a new thought.

So if some people in America are "lazy" in their speech because they elide and omit the sounds of letters in order to pronounce words then why oh why aren't the French or the English for that matter. I once spent serious time teaching a Polish Au pair to pronounce English places. In her dogmatic world it was somehow my 14 year old fault that the English did such strange outrageous things to place names. Well never mind.

So if the French are the be all and end all of perfection then why do they get away with leaving out and swallowing so many sounds? I ask this of Elmer who worships at the shrine. Are the French also lazy? Why have all those extra to use vowels and consonants if you aren't going to use them? I asked my DH who has some background in linguists but he doesn't know. This is a tediou enquiring mind sort of thing.

My appologies to Pour over coffee.

Elmer, you crack me up!

" I ask this of Elmer who worships at the shrine. "

I will ignore this immature and highly inaccurate comment to answer your question because aside from the childish and foolish personal insult, it's reasonable but basically uninformed. Do try to control yourself a bit better.

Every language has unique phonics. Unique sounds, sentence word order, grammar features. English has no noun genders. Romance languages have two. German and languages to the east have three. Others have more

English and Romance languages have no case declensions. German has four. Latin and Slavic languages can have 7 or more.

Dutch has a few sounds that are guttural in the throat. English drew from low German as Dutch did and used to have guttural sounds but doesn't any more

Romance languages mostly don't Here's an example of Dutch:

How to say van Gogh

The simple English sentence

"Can you tell me please if my friend was here earlier today?", when said in German, becomes:

"Can you to me please say, if my friend today earlier here was?"

To learn German and use it properly, as I did for three years of college language study, one needs to learn word order rules too. It follows no logic, for me, it was just memorization. Word endings of nouns and objects change in spelling and pronunciation depending on declensions and gender. There are also differences in words with time frame nuances and other things.

Why are French sounds, phonetics and spelling rules so different from English?

Chinese is a tonal language; this is one of the major challenges to learning it. A particular sound can be flat, rising, falling, or a combination. Korean, right next to China and dwarfed by it over the centuries, is not a tonal language. Why is it different?

The simple answer is that there's no reason why any of these things should be expected to be the same or similar from one to another. Most are not.

If the topic interests you, there's a very interesting podcast called Lexicon Valley from Booksmart. Hosted by Columbia linguistics professor John McWhorter, a self-professed language nerd. The guy has an engaging personality, and the shows go by quickly. His production rate has slowed down and new shows have been just monthly. But for a new listener, you'll find a backlog of prior episodes to listen to.

He brought up and addressed this question a few episodes ago. Posing the issue - why is it that some languages are more complicated than others these days, some are much simple, and many that presumably came from similar origins and had a lot of commonalities with others at one time, no longer do or are?

His response - the natural evolution of language use over time is to simplify when it can. Genders and cases in earlier versions of English are gone. Three genders in earlier versions of romance languages are now two. Complicated Latin with cases, genders, and other complexities, once the main language of religion, government, and education in most of Europe, is no longer used.

So, why an English speaker may think French pronunciation is irregular and random is misled. It's not anything of the above - it's mostly very predictable and regular, but very different from English (which received and absorbed a huge number of words from French in the Middle Ages).

Not odd, just different. Be open minded, you'll find it'll be okay.

Well, this one's gone off the tracks! I thought we were talking about pour over coffee making?

My husband uses this cute little black and decker one cup coffee maker. We have gone through 3 of them and have another backup I found new at a garage sale :) I will look for a link. It's so easy to use and makes tasty coffee IMHO. OK, so I looked for the one he uses and apparently they have changed the design so you can use a taller cup/mug for it. The one my husband uses is shorter and you can put a tall mug under it. It comes with a mug but he uses his own coffee cup with it. But, it's basically the same thing, it's just a scaled down drip coffee maker. You don't use pods, it comes with a filter that you put your own coffee into. It's pretty doggone handy for people that like one cup of coffee.

LINK

" Elmer, you crack me up! "

And your self-righteousness knows no bounds. How sad that is for you.

I answered a question I was asked.

You're free to read or ignore anything you happen upon. A minor illness for which I was told to remain indoors for a few days freed up some available time.

Don't expect me to pass judgement on you personally in return. Generally not my style for comments with no personal slander content.

I think that if everyone completely stops responding to any inappropriate posts from anyone, no arguing, last words, etc., the behavor will soon be extinguished because it is not being rewarded.

You're such an optimist Lucille! Love that about you.

I, too, believe that the behavior will not be extinguished, in the absence of rewards.

in thinking about this, i thought how lucky we were not to be in an employment situation with this. then i remembered the statement that he didnt stay as long as others of equal rank. my guess is they somehow ’bought him out’. too toxic. also guessing that his colleagues learned how not to provoke him.

the mean voices come from within, not outside. i would be more compassionate if he were less cruel. it has become a toxic place here. i will delete.

anyone else have experience with comments containing ’personal slander’?

HU864750314, you mean like when it tries to tell me how everybody else perceives me poorly? As though, reading other people's minds? The funny thing is I don't believe him. He's so sure he's getting under my skin but every time he says that I just laugh my rear off because it's coming across as projection.

Don't leave, because then it wins.

ETA: if I was trying to do "binary stuff", it would have been done throughout. That was a dictation anomaly. Replying to you is not childish, even if you do dislike it.

" I don't believe him. "

I'm in good company, you accept few things most anyone says.

" He's so sure he's getting under my skin "

Honestly, please don't let your imagination elevate yourself to any level of importance or attention on my part. there's nothing there. I make observations or share return comments to any and all.

" Don't leave, because then it wins "

I'm binary, calling me "it" is disrespectful. Want me to call you he/him, will do. It's as easy as your childish taut, for the umpteenth time.

It just bugs me when a fun and interesting thread goes off the rails and is no long fun nor interesting 😞

I can make an observation about coffee. There are a few products in the food spectrum that are or are made from limited sources of commodity items, that local producers try to suggest are very special because of their special touch.

I find beer from locally produced small-operation breweries is like that. The types and sources of the ingredients small breweries can buy to make their beer are quite limited. Most by necessity have procurement of the same things from the same sources as their competitors, or the same items from a small number of different sources. If Brewery A makes an IPA and pushes it as being unique and special, odds are that Brewery B uses roughly the same recipes and ingredients such that its standard IPA (or Pilsner or Pale Ale or Porter or whatever) will be pretty similar.

There's a similar commonality with coffee. Coffees from any particular region, of which there are many, often have a distinguishable flavor. You'd never confuse the flavor of a Columbian (or other Western Hemisphere) coffee with an African one or an Asian one.

Roasters in a given area, like beer makers, have a limited number of suppliers to deal with and most, of a type, sell about the same thing. What remains then for the roaster to make a particular coffee unique is how its roasted and how or if it's blended with other coffees.

There are only so many variables. So if you like a particular coffee, it's likely another company produces something with a similar flavor, whether it's a coffee exclusively from one region or a blend. Many coffee producers are vague on labels and websites about which coffees are used in their blends. Intentionally so, to make a search for something similar more difficult.