Yes. We are Court TV devotees.

No, I remember reading about the death at the time it happened, but haven't seen anything of the trial. I don't seem to own any televisions in this house and there are three. My big mistake was putting a man's chair in my office - DH can often be found behind me there, watching television. Sports, stock market channels, often news but more this coast. I don't take control of a remote until I've gone to bed when I might try to see some local news or weather forecasts and occasionally something on Nat Geo 😊

Rhizo, it's wonderful to see you posting. I've been thinking of you and hoping you are recovering your health fully.

No, but I will have a look right now. It’s pouring here.

{{{{{Rhizo}}}}} ♥️

So wonderful so see you. I have not stopped thinking about you and was ready to put out an APB. Wishing you continued improvement and courage.

dammit. I just pecked a couple of paragraphs out and my finger slipped and it went away. I will again…

I was not paying much attention to this trial until a friend commented that she had been watching a bit and then I started reading a bit about it. Then I found that one of my cable TV options was a station in Boston, NECN that covers it and has a summary in the evening. I wish I didn’t have things to do because I would love to be glued to the television watching it. It is so sideways and crazy.

They are places where you can get a summary of it, but what I did was, I tuned into some of the live coverage and it was of the state trooper who is the lead investigator using incredibly foul and biased language in text to his coworkers and friends disparaging the defendant in the most vulgar terms. He made references to her physical appearance and her medical condition in a extremely obscene way repeatedly. And he was not reprimanded by his coworkers or supervises apparently, although I think today on the stand, there is somebody that said they complained to higher-ups in the State Police organization.

There is a chart on Reddit, that for beginners or people just dipping into some of this case, gives a layout of who main characters are and their relationships with one another.

The coziness between these law enforcement people and friends between the state troopers the Canton police department and others is just so cozy and near “incestuous.“

If anyone thought that the defense argument of some sort of a cover-up was just absolute, fantasy, they might have another thought, after looking at the cozy relationships between the homeowner where the victims body was found, and the inter relationships between the police officers are various jurisdictions. I wish I had more ability to quickly write a synopsis of it but it’s a bit complicated but absolutely fascinating. Somebody could write or create a board game from this outrageous trial and the behavior of law enforcement. It’s very convoluted and entangled and complex.

I’m gonna go now. I’ve gotta go run some errands but I’ll post a couple of links, but it’s just if you like to follow anything that’s a bit challenging to keep up with this is a good head twister. I don’t know if she backed into the victim (a Boston police officer named John O’Keefe) at all or accidentally or out of anger I have no idea. But it seems so the investigation has been really poorly done and very screwed up so I think that the defendant is going to end up with a jury if not an acquittal. And I hope that errant investigator is reprimanded severely.

PS Excuse typos and grammar. Using finger typing, voice to text and Siri somebody keeps auto-correcting. Haha

PPS I say ”going to” and Siri types ”gonna.” I don’t have energy to correct everything, sorry. I never say ”gonna.” haha

https://www.reddit.com/r/KarenReadTrial/comments/1dexctz/daily_trial_discussion_thread_day_24_june_13_2024/

Reddit Chart of principals in Karen Read trial (I cannot find link right now). The contributer did a good job

(see the close relationships? Like a little village, and Lead Investigator Proctor was vague and not disclosing of friendships that could account for his biased behavior and direction.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/karen-read-trial-john-okeefe-death-what-know-rcna155905

Never heard of her. Guess i need to catch up.

Hi rhizo!

No, but just watched a youtube video of a news conference about the Gilgo Beach murders. Apparently the daughter of the accused has some horrific on-line content and has made her own "art" that's very disturbing.

I know nothing about Karen Read or the trial, but I had to look.

A question, is this a strange set up for a court room? Are any of the people so near the defendant the jury?

I’d not heard if it either. I tend to be pro police because of my close relationships to some cops My grandson‘s mom (my son’s ex) and her new relationship are cops. One of my closest friends entered the police academy right after graduating college. She lived with us the first couple of years as she started her career and I was privy to the process of making a cop ( a good one). But because of the need for supporting each other (you can’t go against the brotherhood and then count on them to have your back). But the work can also attract people who get into law enforcement for the wrong reasons. Weeding those guys out is really difficult. The misogyny is probably worse than any other career, both within the ranks and in their personal lives. If she did harm her husband, the ranks would close around her for harming their brother. If another cop harmed him, the ranks will close to protect him Either way, how that investigator behaved was beyond the pale. I hope the truth will win out..

We've discovered an old multi-season cop show -- Chicago PD -- so that's enough of that for us, but glad I 'thuned in' here if only to see rhizo up and posting!

i watch a lot of trials on the law and crime network but haven't been following this one. it sounds interesting, i'll have to go back and see what it's all about!

I know all about it because i live fairly close and my daughter lives in the town where the murder happened my friends are mostly interested in having dinner at the Waterfall which is where they were out partying before the murder happened . personally i think shes being set up

I'm sort of hooked on Reddit.

Do you know there's a Reddit dedicated to the Karen Read trial?

I like it because you can find people who are talking about this specific thing and only this thing, in real time. Not that we shouldn't discuss it on GardenWeb.

I have not been able to watch it very much, but I think I’ve got the salient features. It’s complex and wild and things that have added to the complexity are the following:

--way too much booze consumed by so many of the people involved. The defendant, of course, and the decedent, but also the investigators and relatives and acquaintances of the homeowner. Am I just an oddball? Does everybody consume as much booze? the degree to which people consume huge amounts of alcohol and then drive!

– – The snowstorm didn’t help matters

– – the sort of provincial coziness of the various LE (Law enforcement) and people in that neighborhood/village.

– – The very unprofessional and adolescent behavior of Trooper Proctor and cohorts. He hasn’t even been reprimanded.

— some sloppy investigative work. Law enforcement never went into the house where the party was held, and on which lawn the decedent was found, and of course, the thin blue line and bias.

I heard part of it yesterday and it was very interesting because there was a digital forensic specialist. I’m glad I taped it because I have to go back and learn some new information (for me) about how digital devices log and timestamp and keep track of things. Is anyone else considering going through all their devices and deleting passages? Hahaha.

Yesterday that was a expert in automobile accident reconstruction and he seemed as though he had his feet planted on the ground pretty well.

My take on it is that she and others were skunk, drunk, and way way over the blood alcohol limits for being able to drive an automobile. And of course, that affects other aspects of peoples judgment and behavior and their ability to be patient and not blow your top.

I suspect that she probably in advertently backed into the decedent, was absolutely plastered with alcohol, and it was late at night and a snowstorm, and they had been arguing. I think the prosecution (the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, CW) overcharged. I would not say that she murdered him. I don’t think it was premeditated or planned, but I think she hit him when she backed up in a robust way. Automobile accident reconstructionist with the help of the information on her Lexus SUV determined that she was probably backing up at around 25 mph. That’s pretty fast. Plus, she was upset, it was late at night, and she was under the influence of a whole lot of alcohol, as was the decedent.

There are a lot of other details and I have dipped into the Reddit commentary.

I don’t think there would need to be a vast conspiracy, just a few bent or biased officials in law enforcement that had a cozy relationship with the homeowners on whose property officer John O’Keefe died. It looks like the judge is doing a decent job actually a good job and staying calm and not being impatient or reactive. That’s nice to see

One thing that is very sad is that Officer O’Keefe was the guardian of his sister’s children. I forgot how she died. I think from some disease and he took her two children, niece, and nephew to him. And now what is going to become of them after this horrible event loss and trauma? O’Keefe was only 46 years old.

Think about how this might have not occurred had so much alcohol not been consumed by many of the people by the defendant and the decedent.

I have no idea what the jury will find and they’re still a ways to go in the trial. It’s sad.

That is extra sad about his niece and nephew, to suffer such big losses of parents and now parent figures. I would hope they had a good relationship with their uncle's wife, as she would have been acting as the mother substitute, but even if she's found not guilty, I doubt the children would be able to stay with her unless there is no one else in their family who would take them. Another loss (presumably) for them. And they surely will have their own feelings about her role in their uncle's death.

Never heard of this even though I watch 48 Hours, 20/20 and Dateline every week.

those shows tend to follow a trial until a verdict (or a hung jury) is reached. i suspect once this trial is over, at that point we will see them cover it.

i wasn't surprised by this. when the jury hadn't reached a verdict by friday, i figured it would be hung. the state says they will try her again.

the lead investigator was fired from his job after the discovery of his epic misconduct during the investigation. with that development, i think it will take a long time to seat an impartial jury. it won't surprise me if the defense files a motion for a change of venue.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/karen-read-trial-murder-verdict-john-okeefe-rcna158895

It's sort of right in my back yard so it's all over the news here. I didn't follow it closely enough to have a strong opinion about guilt or innocence.

But, whether or not KR is guity, I don't get the sense that she's a good person. Her behavior while her boyfriend was alive was nasty (lurid, suggestive texts to his friend, etc.) and I just think she's bad news. Doesn't mean she killed him.

And that lead investigator (I'm pretty sure that it is the friend to whom she texted)? Wow - piece of work himself. Could certainly be a frame-job as the defense alleged. Or ... maybe she did kill him. I'll be interesting to see them try to seat another jury.

I don’t think she was ever texting the Massachusetts State Trooper (Proctor) who was the lead investigator. I’m sure the MA state police were mightily embarrassed by his juvenile, misogynistic and outrageously unprofessional and biased notes and texts. And, Proctor was also the lead investigator in another high profile trial. (IMO the guy is guilty. I forgot names.[Walshe]. I do not believe his wife’s body has been found. Horrible and so heartbreaking fot the young children involved.

As for Karen Read, I only watched a bit of trial, read some news articles on it. I do believed that while she was very inebriated and volatile, she backed her SUV up (vigorously) and hit her boyfriend, John O’Keefe, without meaning to or knowing she did so, and that he subsequently succumbed to exposure during the blizzard.

She seems quite volatile and needful. Insecure. But that opinion is just my snapshot take on her.

What I found astonishing is the large number of near cult-like faithful, dressed in pink, keeping vigil outside the courthouse. And the fervor of online supporters and true believers (as on Reddit). Crowd-think is scary, whether the cause is a dramatic female defendant, or a dishonest political operative and grifter.

Save me from The Oxbow Incident and Lord Of The Flies.

So now, the CW of Massachusetts will re-try Read. $$$. And the prosecution has an uphill battle after the first trial and their arguments laid out.

It does seem as though the CW overcharged. I doubt that she knowingly left him to die or murdered him. Too much booze all around. Sad for the victim and his family and young charges.

If you're going to get drunk, stay home in a chair.

I just read a New Yorker piece that was engaging. The writer sums it up well and in a smart way.

AND, did you know that in the adjacent town there is another suspicious death? An attempt at covering up the death of a 23 year old woman (Sandra Birchmore), pregnant by a local police officer, the last one to see her. She had, at about 13 or 15 years old been enthused about police work and careers and had joined the local ”(police) Scout” group for youths. It seemed to have been a masquerade for a grooming club. Soon she was being abused by several cops. Those police have all (3 or more) been either reassigned or invited to move on and away.

Here is the link, but there may be a paywall

➡️ https://apple.news/AU3oWppE1RwmkYuX6WRSIqw

Note sometimes when there is a paywall there are ways around it, or you may be offered one free reading. Also, if you sear h on the title or key words in the content, you can sometimes come across the bulk of the article where someone has copied it to a forum or newsgroup.

Excerpt:

.…

In a reflective moment, Proctor also said, “Hopefully she kills herself.”

That last appalling quip has a resonance that Proctor could not have intended.

In a town a few miles southeast of Canton, three police officers are facing a wrongful-death lawsuit from the estate of Sandra Birchmore, a twenty-three-year-old pregnant woman who was found dead in her apartment in 2021. Birchmore, who joined the local police department’s youth program at age thirteen, was allegedly sexually exploited by the three officers. One of them, a detective named Matthew Farwell, allegedly began a sexual relationship with her when she was fifteen; before she died, Birchmore told friends that Farwell was her unborn baby’s father. He was also the last person to see Birchmore alive. (Farwell and the other officers have denied the allegations against them.) The state medical examiner concluded that Birchmore had died by suicide, and, in a separate investigation, the same district attorney’s office that pursued the charges against Karen Read found no evidence of foul play in Birchmore’s death. But, earlier this month, a forensic pathologist hired by Birchmore’s estate concluded that she had been strangled to death. The report also noted that a rape kit and fetal tissue taken from her body were never sent for DNA analysis.

For many local observers, the deaths of Birchmore and O’Keefe are twin exhibits of institutional decay: of a law-enforcement apparatus rigged with malfeasance, ineptitude, and indifference, leaving behind two victims whose final moments may never be known or understood. In fact, before Read’s trial had even begun, the U.S. Attorney’s office in Massachusetts launched an investigation into how law enforcement had handled the O’Keefe case. An engineering consulting firm hired by the Department of Justice to reconstruct the alleged crash concluded that O’Keefe’s injuries were not consistent with being struck by a vehicle.

..…