That’s a big and interesting collection! Especially noteworthy is the collection of Jalbert, McGredy and Fryer roses that I’ve not seen sold by anyone else in the US, and on multiflora rootstock. I wonder if they are grafting themselves, or perhaps they have a Canadian source.

I wonder what the criteria is for which nurseries DA Roses allows use of the trademarked names. They cancelled contracts with quite a few nurseries . Roses Unlimited is a great rose nursery and I just don't understand why All My Thyme gets to sell them and RU doesn't. I assume DA Roses has a contract with All My Thyme or they wouldn't be using the trademarked names. They do have a nice selection.

It does make you wonder Erasmus. I wonder if it just comes down to money. All My Thyme is charging a hefty amount for the DA roses. But then again I am guessing Heirloom was pressured as well considering they magically stopping selling old favorites like Jude and Munstead when their patents expired, at the same time newer varieties like Roald Dahl came available.

Also read DA sent cease and desist to several online backyard nurseries selling on Etsy and random web sites. They may have been doing nothing wrong given they all used non-trademarked names of out of patent roses but the letter is enough to make most small shops stop.

Munstead Wood's patent has not expired (US patent 2009), but I agree that it has disappeared from Edwards' rose offerings here locally, and they sell most all the patented Austin roses, which is puzzling. Edwards also sells some of the really old Austins that the DA website lists as for sale like Constance Spry and Gertrude Jekyll. I don't believe these names were ever trademarked. Anyway, I did view All my Thyme's roses and I noticed the oldies being sold by their trademarked names. And I was puzzled, too. Maybe Austin just hasn't noticed them yet. Diane

All my thyme is not propagating their roses . they come from D A and a canadian company as well . she is a reseller like menagerie and life in rose .

my guess is that RU , chose to stop propagating old varieties bc DA cant collect royalties and maybe they threatened them about that . Pat has so many wonderful roses besides austins anyway .

Good point, Lilyfinch. Edwards is the same way. Their Austins come from DA and are in Austin pots with Austin tags. I can get a 5 gallon DA for $49 here in Boise. No shipping, of course. Not bad, plus Meilland is $42-45 in a five gallon Meilland pot. And so forth with other current roses. Everything is above board. It looks like All My Thyme is going the ethical route. Diane

That explains it , Lilyfinch.

Maybe that's what DA Roses wanted when they revoked licenses to nurseries who propagate their own. There's probably more money in selling the plants to resellers than just getting a royalty.

I do think DA Roses does a lot of things well. They seem to be communicating with customers and getting plants out to them well this spring. My order is supposed to be here today.

From what I have read plant patents are good for 20 years from the date of the application. So Munstead Wood should be unpatented Dec 10th, 2027.

I was thinking about it a little more and perhaps .. if you are propagating their plants , but are dishonest about how many are sold and royalties are paid .. there may be no way for DA to micromanage that .

Of course I do not think anyone did that ! I just wonder if they decided it wasn’t making them enough money that way.

Because really how can they control that ?

The only thing I can think of is when Pat used to sell them , she always had the DA tags in the pots . Perhaps by purchasing those that paid for the royalty ? I’m not sure . Just thinking ! ☺️

Looking through All My Thyme’s DA offerings, they seem to be the same bunch that everyone else is allowed to sell by the trademark name, and none of the varieties that DA is trying to discontinue.

I only know of one instance ’discontinued’ Austin that was allowed to be sold by its trademarked name. Grace Rose Farms had a future sale of some very expensive Evelyns, and they did not have to call their plants AUSaucer. I bet they struck a special deal with DA. Grace accidentally included those Evelyn plants in a discount they had, and had to retract Evelyn from the sale, saying it wasn’t affordable for them. I’m guessing part of why the price was not negotiable is because DA is getting a nice royalty for letting them use the name Evelyn.

This is a page explaining the difference between trademark names and plant patents.

https://www.fbts.com/plant-patents-trademarks/

I cant buy anything else this year but i love they offer some Multiflora.

Yeah I forgot Munstead is still under patent, but DA is definitely trying to prevent anybody from selling it—except them. So Lilyfikch is probably right, they don’t want anybody propagating certain roses. Heirloom and some others seem to be able to propagate and sell DA roses, but only certain ones—none that are out of patent or have been discontinued abroad like Munstead. And all those older varieties disappeared (Grace, Jude, Tea Clipper, etc) as soon as Heirloom started selling newer introductions.

One thing to note—DA seems to have a gall problem this year. Several different Facebook groups have had many people report gall on their shipments from DA. If you’re going to prevent people from propagating your roses, get rid of the RMV and gall in your fields first.

Oh no !! thats terrinle . are they being refunded at least ?

The person who provided Palatine with all of the budwood for their very popular program of offering out-of-patent DAs by code name a few years ago told me that Palatine discontinued their program due to other nurseries being threatened with lawsuits by DA. They just figured it wasn't worth the risk, despite what they were doing being completely legal. So it's not just the back yard vendors.

I got my DA roses in yesterday and all five look good...no gall.

I also received my Bring me sunshine and it looks great. A shame palatine will not have Austins.