You're welcome Gean. The same holds true for written information. Originally, all we had to believe were the British catalogs proclaiming Graham Thomas as a "mannerly five foot shrub", which it CAN be in the right climate. Here in SoCal, he can be a fifteen foot climber! Beales wrote Ballerina is our most reliable small poly, though it nearly reaches the eaves of a two story house in this climate. He also wrote that New Dawn is their reliable, smaller climber. OK, not in the land of endless summer! As with everything else, location, location, location means everything. One of the reasons why the zone information on our identifications here on GW is so important. As I said, it isn't fool proof, but it can sure give you some VERY good direction. Kim

Adding a few more that opened today, September 4th. MEXCIAN MAGIC - FFO. Not bad for a FFO. Planted in June this year. It is quite cool here today. Thank goodness :-). I love the eye pattern on this one. VIOLA VERNETTA - Reblooming. Planted this spring and a gift from Paul Owen. BLACK EYED BULLY - Reblooming. Notice how similar this one is to Bill Maryott's INCENDIARY? They both have MEET JOE BLACK as the pod parent. RASPBERRY BANANA CHEESECAKE - reblooming. BROADWAY SPARKLER - reblooming KAREN SUE - still reblooming WATCHYL MOON BEAMS - still blooming I will remark that this one has NEVER shown to be a near white here as the registration suggests the color is. More a very lemony yellow with green highlights. I was very disappointed when this first bloomed last year as the seller showed a pic of it being very white. I'm not sure how the seller got it to look so white. HAPPY RETURNS - reblooming again That is all I found today. Julia

I used to have Stormy Weather, but I lost it. I'm disappointed that there is not a source anymore. Farmgirl, if you ever decide to part with a cutting, I live in San Jose I would love to drive up to get one. I just really would like to grow it again! I have 700 minis, so if there's anyone you might want in exchange, we could discuss! I wonder if Baldo grows it? Terry/San Jose

Eden has stiff canes similar to William Baffin, the best I could do was train it at a 45 degree angle , I think it was too stiff to do anything else with. Darlows Enigma is a hardy shrub/climber for me, hardy to the tips. Starts blooming for me around this time with dark red new foliage. Repeat bloomer, sets hips for winter interest, very fragrant but probably the worst thorns ever. The blooms are single and white. Another very hardy climber for me is Seafoam, this rose will do whatever you want it too do. Starts blooming around now and goes well into the fall,no fragrance but that's OK because it has exceptionally healthy,dark foliage. The blooms are white, a little pink in thefall. I have another hardy rambler called Ghislaine de Feligonde. This reblooms for me, if I deadhead. Some people on the forum says theirs repeats and others say theirs doesn't. This thing is a MONSTER for me, and hardy to the tips even after this last winter. Blooms are yellowish to pink, very pretty. As far as structures go, they are always iffy for me. Eventually the older, thicker canes of the rose are what I tie the new shoots to. For additional color for my once bloomers I either plant clematis, liatris,daises or any tall perennial. Oh I also have Veilchenblau, it has always been hardy to the tips. Young canes are easy to train if you get there soon enough. Once bloomer, but when it blooms there are so many you can't even see the foliage. Orange hips in the fall, leaves turn a nice yellow than as well. Semi double blooms, every shade of purple, will get as large as you let it. It's practically thornless. Honestly winter protection is a gamble for me, some people bury the canes in the winter, I did this once and the rose got canker. It's just too much trouble. If I had a rose I loved with questionable hardiness, I would plant it close to the house where it would not be subject to northern winds.