Nope, but I did get the message that they don't have several plants that I ordered. That really irritates me, as there were plenty of them listed in number when I ordered. It makes me think that they put other orders in front of mine, which took up the last of the plants, leaving me holding the bag and only the bag! I placed a separate order after my original one and got it immediately because it was 16 of just one plant. I'll bet if someone else had a complicated order in front of me, they got passed on to the end of the month, too and are probably getting that same email that says sorry, we are out of your plant. If my theory is right, then I really don't like that. It should be first come, first serve, not the simplicity of the order.

Buying a rose from a botanic garden or botanic type sale; or from a REPUTABLE nursery, you have every right to expect "integrity" of identification. Buying a rose from a "home improvement store", a "discount retailer", even an on-line seller (NOT that they are all bad or otherwise suspect, so please do NOT take offense to their inclusion), you are willingly subjecting yourself to "marketing". Whatever it takes to get you to put down your money to take home their products is fair game, unless it breaks the law or otherwise endangers someone. There is no proof Kordes is being defrauded. If the rose is protected by patent, and if they are licensed directly or under someone else's license to distribute the plants, and as long as they are paying royalties for the plants produced and sold, Kordes more than likely couldn't care less. What's to say they aren't buying plugs of Red Ribbons, from whose purchase price Kordes is receiving royalties, then "marketing" them under a name which stimulates their sales? As long as Kordes receives their royalties and as long as the plants SELL, no one in the distribution channel could care less. They are NOT in the business of maintaining the integrity of "botanical nomenclature". They are in the business if moving product and generating sales. You have no more reason to expect that channel of distribution to provide the proper name of the cultivar, maintain proper identification of the specific rose than you have to expect a puppy mill to provide properly bred, properly documented dogs. If you want as absolutely proper identification as possible, don't buy it from a schlock producer. Nothing they are doing is any different from what has been done in the nursery industry for the past two-hundred years. It is well documented throughout history. What they ARE doing, is using "Banksiae" as a brand, which is rather consistent with how the consuming public perceives it. Many don't identify it with being a rose, but a white or yellow flowering "vine". I've been there very often. People encounter them and are surprised to learn they are ROSES, because to most, they don't look like roses. They consider them strong growing, woody, spring flowering vines. Red Lady Banks isn't marketed to YOU (US), but to those to whom Banksiae isn't a rose, but a "flowering vine". You have to change glasses from a minimum semi professional "rosarain" to just plain "plant planter" "Marketing", by its very nature, strongly borders on perceived "fraud". You just need to refocus your vision from the educated, experienced rose person you are, to what those who know little to nothing about them perceive. Kim

bboy, There is a problem with nomenclature in the musks, in that R. moschata ssp. moschata (the single form) and R. moschata ssp. plena (the common double form) have always been considered separate subspecies, even though we now know one is a simple sport of the other. Too, 'Temple' is a simple sport of the common double, although that mutation doesn't happen as often. So the subspecific ranking is surely invalid, and they probably all ought to be just R. moschata with a cultivar designation. Of course, in informal English, it is convenient to refer to them as the "single," "double" and "Temple" 'forms' of musk rose. I suspect that's where the idea of going to forma came from, and perhaps there is some validity to that -- certainly more than the ssp. rank.

Kristy the disk that was out of place was pushed against the syatic nerve,the Dr said he might have some numbness(sp)in his leg for a while but,I don't think Mike really knew what is was gonna be like,I do know he is having a time with it,he goes back to the Dr Monday so hopefully they will be able to tell more about it. Now Steph my DIL that just had the baby,is having some problems with her heart,she went to the Dr today and they told her it seems to be skipping a beat,she is only 25 years old,she has to go back on the 23rd for more test,so please pray for her. Please everybody don't get upset with me I have to talk to someone,and you guys really seem to care,but I am sorry if my post bothers anyone,I just can't seem to handle all this alone. Hugs Bonnie