Over on the Antique Roses forum, there's a post about 1/3 way down the page on "Red Lady Banks".

The word "trepadora" seems to be associated with the Meilland rose, 'Sevillana,' and with the climber, 'Don Juan.'

Someone who has proficient Spanish language skills might Google "La Trepadora" and get a usable translation.

It is, in any case, NOT a banksia of any sort.

That's like putting a sign around your cat's neck that says "DOG," and introducing kitty as a pitbull.

But it might be 'Don Juan,' a rather pleasant dark red climber.

Jeri

Jeri,

the Home Depot "Red Lady Banks Rose" is not Don Juan, might be the "Red Ribbons" as some one suggested....still looks a LOT like the Doc to me!

No. Not that one that we know about.

But that doesn't mean it's the same rose everywhere. And other "Red Lady Banks" have not ALSO been labeled Rosa trepadora.
Rosa trepadora seems to be a fairly common term in Spain.

Also, witness another "Lady Banks" which may be Tausendschoen.
The possibilities are legion.

Jeri

Per Google translator, "Trepadora" means "Creeper". Rosa Trepadora is Creeping Rose. Kim

The rose Red Lady Banks that is sold by Nakase Bros. Wholesale Nursery through the big box stores is actually the Kordes rose "Red Ribbons." I grew them side-by-side and confirmed that. The grower appears to be ripping off the breeder by renaming a variety for which they should be paying royalties/licensing fees and are probably not doing so.

I put some pictures on the Rose Hybridizers Forum to show that they are the same.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pictures here

Thanks Kim (AND kstrong).

What I strongly suspect is that not all of the "Red Lady Banks" from Nakase are Red Ribbons -- but that they propagate whatever red climber is handy, and give it that name.

In any case, Nakase Brothers, Huntington Beach, CA has a website, and can be sent email. It would be good for EVERYONE to write to them -- as they are defrauding, not only customers, but Kordes.

Jeri

Nope. Sorry. They bounce email.
But we COULD call them on the telephone ...

Jeri

Buying a rose from a botanic garden or botanic type sale; or from a REPUTABLE nursery, you have every right to expect "integrity" of identification. Buying a rose from a "home improvement store", a "discount retailer", even an on-line seller (NOT that they are all bad or otherwise suspect, so please do NOT take offense to their inclusion), you are willingly subjecting yourself to "marketing". Whatever it takes to get you to put down your money to take home their products is fair game, unless it breaks the law or otherwise endangers someone.

There is no proof Kordes is being defrauded. If the rose is protected by patent, and if they are licensed directly or under someone else's license to distribute the plants, and as long as they are paying royalties for the plants produced and sold, Kordes more than likely couldn't care less. What's to say they aren't buying plugs of Red Ribbons, from whose purchase price Kordes is receiving royalties, then "marketing" them under a name which stimulates their sales? As long as Kordes receives their royalties and as long as the plants SELL, no one in the distribution channel could care less. They are NOT in the business of maintaining the integrity of "botanical nomenclature". They are in the business if moving product and generating sales.

You have no more reason to expect that channel of distribution to provide the proper name of the cultivar, maintain proper identification of the specific rose than you have to expect a puppy mill to provide properly bred, properly documented dogs. If you want as absolutely proper identification as possible, don't buy it from a schlock producer. Nothing they are doing is any different from what has been done in the nursery industry for the past two-hundred years. It is well documented throughout history.

What they ARE doing, is using "Banksiae" as a brand, which is rather consistent with how the consuming public perceives it. Many don't identify it with being a rose, but a white or yellow flowering "vine". I've been there very often. People encounter them and are surprised to learn they are ROSES, because to most, they don't look like roses. They consider them strong growing, woody, spring flowering vines.

Red Lady Banks isn't marketed to YOU (US), but to those to whom Banksiae isn't a rose, but a "flowering vine". You have to change glasses from a minimum semi professional "rosarain" to just plain "plant planter" "Marketing", by its very nature, strongly borders on perceived "fraud". You just need to refocus your vision from the educated, experienced rose person you are, to what those who know little to nothing about them perceive. Kim

I don't completely agree, Kim.

I spent my entire career in the advertising business. As you know, I'm a pretty decent advertising copywriter. There's a huge difference between out and out falsehood and "implied truth."

The latter is acceptable.
The former is NOT acceptable -- and can be actionable, when government bothers.
Legitimate merchandisers avoid out and out falsehood, because in the end, it's not worth the bad press, and hard feelings.

I do agree that if you buy roses from Home Depot, Lowes, or Wally World, you're asking to be ripped off ... but that doesn't -- REALLY doesn't -- excuse it.

Jeri
Retired Advertising Copywriter

Historically, roses were "obtained" and "reintroduced" as whatever the retailing nursery wished to call them. National names seldom travel well which is why there are so many synonyms for commercial roses. Plus, morals in advertising have changed tremendously, unfortunate, but fact. We've already seen "Banksiae Snowflake" which has always been Fortuniana. Now, Banksiae Rosea and Red Lady Banks, which are outright 'branding' of the term "Banksiae". How does that really differ from advertising and retailing Cl. Sunflare as "Yellow Blaze"? The former has about as much in common with Blaze as either of the two imposters retailed as Banksiae have with it. Banksiae has become the climbing rose equivalent of Xerox and Kleenex.

How does that really differ from advertising and retailing Cl. Sunflare as "Yellow Blaze"?

*** DOESN'T!
That's wrong, too!

Sorry, but a falsehood is a falsehood is a falsehood.
It's one thing when it is done accidentally, and quite another when it's done deliberately.

It's intended to deceive. That's wrong.
It used to be legal, btw, to use shaving cream as a substitute for whipped cream, in advertising photos. It was a convenient thing to do, in a studio photography session -- but it was a lie. You can't do that anymore, because it is intended to deceive.

Jeri

It seems possible that there is more than one 'Snowflake' banksia, given that I see an ad for 'Snowflake' from a reputable nursery that is said to be an introduction by Greg Grant, a reputable horticulturalist from Steven F Austin.

Here is his description from a plant list for the SFA plant sale: "An intoxicatingly fragrant delicate, single white Lady Banks rose. A vigorous seedling selected by the late Robert Bayse from seed from Italy. He was looking for an easier to root form for a roostock and for blackspot resistant breeding stock. It’s the most fragrant rose I’ve ever grown."

The photo certainly doesn't look like Fortuniana to me:

http://almostedenplants.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=10745

I did order it... I figure the worst that could happen is that I paid $13 for Fortuniana, but what I'm expecting is a fragrant selection of R. banksia alba that looks like the photo.

Virginia

What's pictured is Banksiae normalis, the single, white version. Whether it is sufficiently different from the usual type or not, I don't know. There are some who claim it is highly scented of violets. The only scent I perceive from it is the skunky, bitter taste in the back of my throat I also perceive from violet and Pansy plants themselves. Yet, when I dry the anthers and stamen from Lutescens, they yeild an intoxicating spicy scent as they dry. Something I have never perceived in the flowers while attached to the plants. Good luck! Kim

I once clambered about in a pretty undignified manner in a jungle of all four of the basic Banksiaes - the white single and double, and yellow single and double - in order to subject them all to a thorough sniffing.... I was thinking at the time it might be a good substitute for violet essential oil, since the real one dissipates very quickly. So I wanted to know whether they really did smell of violets and which was the strongest scented. I concluded that some of them at least did indeed smell delightfully (though not super-strongly) of violets, and I did manage to pick a 'winner' - but I've forgotten now which it was.... and that wonderful jungle is no more.

I may be mistaken, but aren't the petals of the single white pictured in Virginia's link just a little narrower than those of the regular R Banksiae normalis?

Re 'Rosa Trepadora'; I found it interesting that as well as simply translating as any 'climbing/clambering plant', the word 'trepadora' could also be used to denote a 'social climber', with some suggestion of climbing (the 'trep' part) over others to get at the gold/money (a d'ora?)... Maybe rather appropriate in this case...

Comtesse :¬)

Comtesse, you make me smile at the thought of you sniffing at four Banksias in succession... especially since I've had visions of trying that myself. I have rooted cuttings of R. banksia lutea (what old-timers in this area call 'Lady Banksia'), and R. banksia alba, though they are pretty small still. This new plant should- if the description is accurate- bring me up to a Banksia trio, but I guess I'll need a 'Purezza' or some other sort to get to a quartet.

I'm supposing that this rose was a seedling of 'normalis' as Kim says, and possibly one that is a result of an Italian tradition of selecting for fragrance and/or disease resistance? Maybe I'm reading too much between the lines there.

The description of 'Snowflake' implies that only well-established plants will flower, so I'm not expecting flowers anytime soon, but if I do get some, i'll report back.

Virginia