*IF* your HVAC heating costs $150 per month. Your solar produces $140 credit in winter, the change from 10 SEER AC to inverter in the summer will provide you even more cushion in the winter as time goes on, if your utility allows to roll over credits in the summer to winter use.

If you don't use the credits? what happens to them? My guess is the utility isn't going to cut you check. (I'm not in the electric generation game, who else wants to guess?)

Using simple numbers -- let's say the savings amount to $150 per month on average. Some months will be more, others will be less.

This example isn't about splitting hairs...

150 x 12 = 1800. Times 10 years = 18,000. National average equipment life = 15 years so add another $9000 for the last 5 years.

How old is the 10 SEER AC in this thread? 2023 - 2005 = 18 years. Why not to split hairs? Utility prices will fluctuate. You will have breakage, maintenance etc. We're well within the guessing range of possibilities.

So if you don't do this upgrade, the utility company won't cut you a check for the credits -- you're buying the Inverter anyway, one month at a time.

If you sell the home sometime in the next few years? You did it all for someone else. How you get backed into a corner... yeah. I'm here to make an example out of you... The movie would be titled something like "No way out" or "Comfort Misadventures"

Ray,

The OP isn't proposing a DIY installation. Indeed, they are getting quotes from local HVAC contractors (ostensibly "professionals") for swapping out their air conditioner with a heat pump and keeping their existing gas furnace. By definition, that's a dual-fuel or hybrid system. I don't know if you've ever had a dual-fuel system. I had one in my previous home for 16 years and liked it a lot. The controls of a dual-fuel system aren't particularly sophisticated; the proper thermostat ensures that the heat pump isn't running in heating mode when the furnace is operating. Simple, straight-forward stuff. The cross-over temperature (from heat pump to gas furnace) may be fixed or user-selectable. I kept my system's cross-over temperature at 35F, but some folks might opt to keep it higher or lower depending on the specifics of their system and what they perceive as comfortable indoor conditions.

With respect to available rebates under MAss Save, I don't think the OP is expecting to score a rebate on the portions of the existing system that will remain. Under MAss Save, the rebate for installing an air source heat pump that is supplemented by an existing furnace or boiler should qualify for the partial home rebate of $1,250 per ton. The OP will also benefit from the savings produced by a higher-efficiency unit operating in air conditioning mode compared with their current system.

Thanks for sparing us the fear-mongering over the R-410a phase down.

1. You didn't explain why you want to do this? What kind of return are you expected to earn over, say, 10 years on a $17K-$34K expenditure?
2. Why would you ever want to give up natural gas heating? A natural gas furnace can be kept running during a power failure by operating its blower for hours or even days using a power supply, your rooftop solar (during the daytime), or even an inverter attached to an automobile battery. With electric heat you'd just be cold.
3. It seems to me that the electrical grid will become less reliable, not more, with the government's subsidies of electric cars (and disincentives for ICE) plus the switch to unreliable wind and solar.

Charles you're not reading what I wrote again. No where did I say the OP was trying to do this DIY.

If the Heat Pump on a dual fuel heating system is not installed "properly" --- means the opposite of wrong... failure would be imminent for a climate that often gets cold.

If you run a HP thermostat several degrees higher than set point this will often times include a call for auxillary heat. So no, 9 times out of 10 for a dual fuel set up you will need more than just a thermostat. This situation is completely different if you have electric heat strips as aux. heat.

Is it hard? only if you are pretending to be something you're not.

The excuse: the builder put it in and it's not working. --- that's going to cost money if you call me.

The con: The builder isn't returning my calls, doesn't answer his phone. That's going to cost you...

I know this isn't a build me a new home thread --- but I am illustrating a point, that you have choices... best to pick a good one first time out the gate. In my illustrious experience it's never been -- hey listen to your builder.

--------

solar credit of $141 /mo. in the winter where solar production is the lowest. The utility companies that I know of aren't going to cut you a check for "credits" so if you don't use it, you lose it.

If I had to fashion a guess --- it's the whole reason for this thread. Because if you could get the utility company to cut you a check, just apply that to the gas bill and be done with it.

Thanks for sparing us the fear-mongering over the R-410a phase down

Something the Builder still doesn't understand... The system on this thread is "end of life" from a national average perspective. Most likely R-22 which was banned in 2020.

The R410a phase down is underway... equipment ban coming 2025. There aren't any "new" choices available yet. The benefit of doing this now is that you likely escape a generation of equipment. Because the new refrigerants (R32 & R454b) will be phased out again in 2035/2036 for the USA to hit GWP targets of the Kigali amendment to the Montreal Protocol.

The OP has already discussed the topic over $money$ the R410a phase down is only about more $money. Some people have a variety of fears.

If you're curious and have time to blow I cover this topic / cut thru myths / red herring tales and so on...

Ray,

You weighed in on the installation of a dual-fuel system which I'm guessing in your "*tropical like*" climate zone that you have never installed. You suggested it was a complicated task to control with disasterous consequences if done wrong. The OP is hiring professionals in a climate zone where I would expect them to have lots of experience with dual-fuel systems so the nuclear melt down option is not likely. The control is simple via a thermostat designed for dual-fuel systems. I know you're a cartoon and video guy, so here's a link to a video so you can see how simple it really is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhhesjH9BWI

Charles, you always build and go back to those builds for 20 years?

You probably wouldn't be posting here if you did that. I probably wouldn't either because there would be no reason for me to exist.

People call me with HVAC trouble calls. < nexus of the universe > People call you to build new.

The argument over what cost is vs something that is cheaper or closer to what is deemed a national average. I'll just keep calling for free estimates until I get a price I like.

I know how people like to think when it comes to money Charles. Your business is different because of construction loans. --- Clearly you never think of things like this because it's more about barking with you.

Thanks guys, all great info. The previous owner gave me his electric bill from April, 2022. He had a credit of 649 kw/hrs for the month, useful during the Summer months running this jurassic air conditioner. My thought was mentioned above, banking more electricity for Winter. I have no intention of removing the gas furnace, and natural gas prices are dropping. With integrated controls, the heat pump will switch off, and the gas furnace will fire, at a preset set point. Bosch guy suggested 20F, Lennox guy 30F. Mass save paid for most of the insulation, gave us two cases of LED bulbs, and a bunch of power strips. I also installed two Sensi smart thermostats, which are ppretty cool. The other incentive, is the rebate also mentioned above, but in actualality, a 10 year payback for modern comfort. Im still shopping, Trane guy from another state.

I am not familiar how solar energy credits work in Massachusetts. Do you receive a KWh credit to be used in future months?

You can get a quotes for a AC only condenser, and a quote for the equivalent heat pump. This will tell you have much more a the heat pump option will cost. I suspect the Mass Save rebates are higher for heat pumps in order to discourage burning natural gas. If that is true then getting the heat pump and installing the dual fuel option may be an easy decision.

Another thing to consider is the life expectancy of an AC condenser versus a heat pump. In your climate an AC with proper maintenance could last 15-20 years. A heat pump will have a shorter life due to the extra run time in winter. The winter design temperature for Clinton MA is about 5F degrees. The back up heating will be needed often throughout the winter.

The comparison of an air conditioner and heat pump is moot point: The MAss Save program doesn't offer rebates for replacing an air conditioner with a more efficient air conditioner--only for replacement of air conditioners with heat pumps. A rebate of $1,250/ton for a 4 ton +/- heat pump will cover the incremental cost of a heat pump vs. air conditioner and a lot more.

Thanks guys, all great info. The previous owner gave me his electric bill from April, 2022. He had a credit of 649 kw/hrs for the month, useful during the Summer months running this jurassic air conditioner.

David, yeah so that's a chunck of a credit. While this is a good idea this may not be the case under your usage. Even still with what usage you do have is a good chunk of money that you would just continue to bank if you don't go to a heat pump set up to use at least some if not all of that banked electrical energy. Essentially "free run time" to run a heat pump from.

A heat pump is a better produced machine [better built / more robust]. So this theory that a heat pump will last less than a traditional AC is from the perspective of a home owner that likely fills their head with nonsense discussions from the internet. Certainly there are more parts to a heat pump than can fail but most of the time it's not much different from a traditional AC repair. Assuming the system was installed properly. I know I shouldn't have to say that...

How and why a Bosch Inverter is better: You can run cooling functions as low as 15F outdoor ambient. Where as a traditional AC is best shut off for fear of damage below 55F.

Bosch Inverter heat pump: heating down to 5F

Traditional single and even two speed heat pump is going to be challenged to produce heat past about 30F

Most people won't run their AC much below 55F -- but the statements above show you how much better the machine is in the performance realm. Certain cooling functions like a server room / bitcoin mining operation etc. need cooling 24 /7 regardless of outdoor ambient temp.

On the subject of Trane:

Yeah they have inverter as well, but I don't think the option exists to keep your existing furnace to get their incarnation of inverter to run. I believe their versions will require complete replacement all new equipment (whole system) If they can do it with Heat pump only, the unit performance is likely cut. Carrier is typically cut to a two speed machine when doing things like this.

The Trane Inverter in this realm is designed to be controlled with proprietary hardware + thermostat control. It relies on communicating electronically over wires. These things add to cost not only up front, but also as the system ages. Trane charges premium part prices once that unit goes out of warranty --- it will cost a pretty penny to keep it running.

There's the hidden reason why I chose Bosch. In the grand scheme of things it is my opinion you can't beat it for what it does at the price point in which it's at. Is it for everyone? No.

Heck Trane Inverter systems are for even less people than Bosch. Why? money. The sticky substance that gets stuff done.

To summarize: you want to make sure you're buying what you think you are. Think down the road and the servicing of that machine. Which ever machine you decide. A common way to cut price of install is to hire cheaper installers. Inverter machines are a different breed. Doing things improper will lead to poor performance and possibly no performance at all. Communicating systems often go into "error code hell" -- communication machines are often sold as better. It's a way for the manufacturer to "control" what you can and can't do. Then spit out error codes.

I have experience installing these communicating systems about 8 years ago. From a repair man perspective they are a PITA. When they work, they work great. But the time they stop working due to flavor of the month error code? not so much.

Bosch Inverter doesn't require any communication, just a simple 24v signal to get 1% steps of comfort up and down. The name Bosch isn't anything special... it's about what the equipment does and how it does it. Will it break? yes, they all break. I'm a HVAC repair man remember?

If your contractor is out of state: are they going to service that equipment when you call them? Don't forget service after the sale. Just having a warranty from the manufacturer doesn't mean anything. I get called all the time for improper installed machines, if the unit is only 1 to 3 years old I may at my own discretion tell you to call the installer. This is why the installation is the most important part of any HVAC work outside of the name on the box.

If you buy the extended labor warranty from Trane: These are tied to the installing contractor. If a problem develops a common theme is thinking you can just call any other contractor. Uh, no.

I service the Katy, Texas area. ( I think you might have missed it ;-) )

"A heat pump is a better produced machine [better built / more robust]. "

Isn't a heatpump exactly the same as the corresponding AC model (aside from the reversing valve and defrost board)? Given that the heatpump operates in both heating and cooling seasons (vs just the cooling season for an AC), maybe this is why there's a general sense that they don't last as long?

I would think the equivalent AC and heat pump condensers use the same capacitors and contactors. I am not sure about the compressor. A heat pump needs to operate at very cold temperatures whereas an AC generally does not.

In Massachusettes an AC may operate 3-4 months, and a heat pump may operate 9-10 months. That's 2.5 - 3 times more run time hours for the heat pump. That extra run time over a 10 year persion is a lot of wear and team on the equipmment. However if the state of Massachesettes is willing to subsidize only new heat pumps., and you have excess generated excess electricity, then the dual fuel option would be the best choice in my opinion.

"A heat pump is a better produced machine [better built / more robust]. So this theory that a heat pump will last less than a traditional AC is from the perspective of a home owner that likely fills their head with nonsense discussions from the internet." Sorry, Ray, but you're the one who is misinformed. The life expectancy of a heat pump--which runs year 'round --is less than an air conditioner which runs seasonally. It's intuitively obvious. But, don't just take my word on it, here's what Carrier Corp. says:

"One important factor to consider is the longevity of the system. While there are a number of variables that greatly influence the life expectancy of a HVAC system, central AC units typically last longer than Heat Pumps. The reason is that heat pumps heat and cool a home, so they are used year-round. Air conditioners get a break during the cooler months when a separate heat source is used to heat the home." https://www.carrier.com/residential/en/us/products/heat-pumps/heat-pumps-vs-air-conditioners/

In your attempt to discredit Mike, you were, once again, hoist with your own petard.

Ha, ha, ha... you all believe what you want to believe.

I am the one who works on them & repairs them for nearly 3 decades now (let's not think about that), you want to take advice from a manufacturer that wants you to buy a new one.

Clearly the board isn't thinking again. Fine by me.

PS: when I said the controversial statement that caused the rucus, I wasn't referring to a run of the mill heat pump. I had a lapse in judement that people reading what I say would take a step back and think as to what I am saying and why. --- That being said, there is no such thing as surplus heat pumps that need replacing at the 7 year to 10 year point, let alone the 15 year point. (they all come with 10 year warranty at least).

What there is a surplus of is the Traditional AC that fails at the 7-8 year point. Don't believe me... of course you won't so I make what I say mucho hard for someone to dispel with butter your eyeball 4k video details...

I'm sorry this AC in this video must have thought he was a heat pump? ha, ha, ha.

I service the Katy, Texas area. ---You'll only get my opinion if you live in an area I service.

"A heat pump is a better produced machine [better built / more robust]. "

Isn't a heatpump exactly the same as the corresponding AC model (aside from the reversing valve and defrost board)? Given that the heatpump operates in both heating and cooling seasons (vs just the cooling season for an AC), maybe this is why there's a general sense that they don't last as long?

I was referring to the Bosch when I said that. It's not the name that makes that statement. You and others look at the name, I am looking far deeper than that. A certain "model" -- a way in which things are done. Specifics.

Then what I say people run out buy the Bosch... because they think it's merely the name of the unit that matters. Bosch makes more than one model. All manufacturer's make more than one model.

The post above was mostly for the builder --- he some how thinks I am going to say something that will sink me... even though I live in a hot climate that depends on AC. Heat pumps here aren't that common because the heating season is so short. But I work on them, the ones I've replaced over the course of my career? older than 15 years. Mile in my shoes sort of thing.

I gave hints I was referring to the Bosch (a specific model -- not a name)

Performance: cooling to 15F / Heating to 5F

I also said: a traditional heat pump will struggle below 30F. Didn't I say that? Forum board is for reading. If you need to take breaks and re-read what I say so you fully understand it?

I have a Bosch 1.0 Inverter heat pump at my home. New since late 2019. I put in the 1.0 because at the time that's all there was... time moves on. The current 2.0 incarnation is different than the 1.0 variety. I know because I work on them.

So here I am more or less repeating things because someone failed to read and apply some deep thought. Ah, HVAC 101 gotta love it.

Your statement was clear, Ray, and it's clearly false.

Ha, ha, ha. You're always building new Charles how would you really know?

We'll take the manufacturer's word for it and just sell you a new unit to keep the manufacturer happy. Sure you can do that if you want... you must be made of money.

Update to my heat pump project-For the eighth time a local Bosch guy came over, and quoted up the job for$16,500. I wrote back, and told him that my budget is $14,000. We settled at $14,500, with me supplying the smart thermostat for the third zone, a Sensi, which will match the other two, and operate on the same app. I think the Bosch estimator spits out Ecobee each time?

Bosch Bova-60 HDN1-M20G

BMA*4248 CNTF

Honeywell HZ-432K

Add third zone in big room.

New disconnect w/2-pole 60A breaker.

Retain existing gas furnace for emergency.

System qualifies for Mass save whole house rebate ($10,000).

How we looking so far?

"a local Bosch guy came over, and quoted up the job for$16,500. I wrote back, and told him that my budget is $14,000. We settled at $14,500"

Just keep an eye on the installers and make sure they don't take any shortcuts to make up the lost revenue!

System qualifies for Mass save whole house rebate ($10,000).

How we looking so far?

To get the rebate and keep it (no claw back?) from the look of that form they gonna track you... what they claim an emergency vs what you think an emergency is? You supply them your gas service info on the form.

heat pump heat isn't bad, but it's not quite like gas heat when old man winter shows up in force. The rebate wants the heat pump to be the sole heating system... not duel fuel.

*If there is an extreme winter event and the heat pump can not heat the home* -- but they don't say what they consider extreme. (how extreme is extreme?) Open to interpretation... relax it's the government? yeah the most feared words in the english language. ha, ha.

There's only two sure fire things that can and will happen: death and taxes. Oh Ray you're so negative... in a few months it will be 30 years... nothing new folks.

The $10k government cheese form: Mass save form

I service the Katy, Texas area.

"The $10k government cheese form: Mass save form" Well, it's not "government money," Ray. The rebates are offered by the sponsors of the Mass Save program--all of which are regulated public utilities. According to their website, "Mass Save® is a collaborative of Massachusetts’ electric and natural gas utilities and energy efficiency service providers including Berkshire Gas, Cape Light Compact, Eversource, Liberty, National Grid, and Unitil."

The program does not require removal of the existing furnace; only the commitment that it not be used except in the event the heat pump can't heat the home during an extreme weather event. If you're uncomfortable with the lack of a specific definition of "extreme weather event," you only need to tune in to local TV news. They have folks on staff called "meteorologists" who'll know.

Mass Save® is a collaborative of Massachusetts’ electric and natural gas utilities and energy efficiency service providers including Berkshire Gas, Cape Light Compact, Eversource, Liberty, National Grid, and Unitil.

How is this any better? special interest groups? That are likely to track you and claw it back at some point?

The cheese comes at a cost, no such thing as free cheese. But those providing it like to make you think it is and with no string cheese attached to it. LOL.

News flash if it was truly free there would be no form to fill out. You're getting something that someone else is profiting off of in some way shape or form. You can put lip stick on a pig all you want. He's still a pig.

Ray,

Your response to the OP's question wasn't for their benefit. Rather, you used it to spread your fear and distrust of government. The problem is, your fear was misdirected; Mass Save isn't a government program. Mass Save is a collaboration of energy and energy efficiency service providers. The program has a proven, 10-year track record providing incentives directly to customers. Some may be disgruntled. So, if their history is "clawing back" rebates, please provide some data to substantiate your claim. As for listing the utility providers on the rebate claim form, it's to ensure the cost of those incentives is borne by the particular provider. As for tracking, they already do that--it's called a monthly invoice.

The Mass Save program is delivering some impressive energy savings and carbon reduction across the Commonwealth. You might spend some time understanding the program before disparaging it.

For the eighth time a local Bosch guy came over, and quoted up the job for$16,500. I wrote back, and told him that my budget is $14,000. We settled at $14,500,

The estimator came to your house 8 times! Do you think this company is competent if it takes this long to generate a quote? Are you going to get anything in writing on the quote which states the installer will comply with the Mas Save requirements to be eligible for the $10,000 rebate?

Be careful of installers who are eager to sell equipment because the homeowner will be eligible for a large rebate. The equipment may be designed to meet the rebate requirements, and but not necessarily meet the requirements of the house and its location. I experienced this when I was shopping for new HVAC equipment.

No, this was my eigth estimate. I had read good things about the company I chose, and the person who showed up, is a licensed hvac professional. He wrote down particulars like year of construction, type of insulation, windows, how many kw/h the solar system generates, etc. He performed both manual J, and heat calcs, and was more than eager to add a third zone to the big room, where two other installers wanted to sell me a mini-split?

He is also one of just two to install a new line set, and upgrade the integrated controller, for the third zone. The verbiage on the estimate reads the system meets the requirements for the whole house rebate. If not, i it’s $1250 ton, not the end of the world.

Hi, David,

Based on keeping your furnace, I believe you'll qualify for the partial home rebate which is $1,250/ton x 5 tons = $6,250 To borrow a term from another poster, that's a lot of "cheese."

It sounds like you have invested a lot of time trying to find a good installer. Most people get multiple estimates in order to find the lowest bidder. This is a big purchase so this is time well invested. Keep us up to date about the installation and the rebate process.

Thank you Mike, I certainly will. Did you end up finding something? I was simply looking for both a quality installer, and products, who understands what I want to do. There was a question asking about Mass save, yes, they must be a Mass save partner, in order to claim the rebate.

Bosch Bovb install complete, one day with two techs, and an electrician. Company is going to commission the unit this week . I’ll keep you posted on the rebate process.

David,

Congratulations on your new heat pump. I have never seen that type of condenser pad. Is condenser bolted to the pad so it doesn't slide off? Is the condenser high enough off the ground to keep it out of the snow?

I would be interested in Manual J calculations, the size of your equipment, and the sizes of your old equipment. Also how much of a rebate you expect and your final out of pocket cost.

@mike_home,

The pad under the outdoor unit is a pre-manufactured pad designed for installation in snowy climates https://www.diversitech.com/heat-pump-pad-36x36x8 It provides an 8" increase in elevation. I am most delighted to say that I have no personal experience with them.

@Charles Ross Homes

Thanks for the information. This would be good to use even in warm climates. It protects the condenser from damage using weed wackers and stray mulch. And as a added bonus it is made in the USA.

This would be good to use even in warm climates. It protects the condenser from damage using weed wackers and stray mulch.

Unnecessary in warm climate. Most heat pumps (if there is one) here are on concrete slabs. The primary reason for these elevated pads is to aid in defrost and draining moisture away from the units coils in defrost mode.

I have never seen my heat pump even enter defrost mode... it's installed on a concrete slab.

Tales from a hot climate... (when I say that it means AC use 10 months of the year -- context for keyboard warriors.)

@quiteactually,

Please let us know of any efforts on the part of your utility company to "claw back" rebates. If that's the case, we want to fairly score one for @Austin Air Companie

Charles Ross looks to score I just spread truth bombs, not worrying about any score card.

(It will all take care of itself in the end, I'm not here to score points.)

If you win the rebate, you lose it when they come for your freon. If you lose the rebate and lose the freon? what would I win?

"it doesn't matter" - to the extent you think it does. - Charles "I don't purchase refrigerant" Ross Homes.

This isn't to suggest Bosch has any problems outside the ordinary with freon (refrigerant) leaks. All brands leak at some point.

Ray,

This is about rebates, not refrigerant. The OP's experience is only a single case, but illustrative none the less. Let's see if they get the promised rebate or it gets "clawed back."

A tech from our hvac installer commisioned the new system the other day. It works as expected, super quiet system. The outdoor unit is bolted to the pad in four places. I’m putting together the paperwork for the Mass save rebate, however the indindividual who handles the manual J paperwork happens to be out this week. I have been following a couple of local hvac forums, where a homeowner just installed the same system, retaining the gas furnace, and received the whole house rebate. there was another homeowner who was denied the whole house rebate, as there wasnt an integrated control installed. There was one other that was denied any sort of rebate, as he didn’t utlize a Mass save HPIN installer.

What we had: Amana four ton 10 seer outdoor unit, and Amana four ton air handler, retaining Amana 95%, 80000 btu condensing furnace.

What we now have: Bosch BOVB-60HDN1-M20G outdoor unit, cased coil BMA* 4248CNTF,

Honeywell H-432K integrated control, set to switch at 30F. Sensi (3) smart thermostats indoors, retaining NG furnace. These energy assessments, and rebates are paid by everyone, its the energy efficiency charge on each bill.

I have been following a couple of local hvac forums, where a homeowner just installed the same system, retaining the gas furnace, and received the whole house rebate. there was another homeowner who was denied the whole house rebate, as there wasnt an integrated control installed. There was one other that was denied any sort of rebate, as he didn’t utlize a Mass save HPIN installer.

Yes, you have to follow the rules to the letter (typically) -- or you lose.

That said, what's more important is that the machine was installed properly and working as advertised. Money -- is often a substance that slips thru your fingers quicker than the sand in a hour glass.

I'm sure the fine dining and fine accommodations specialist can chime in and attest to the money argument -- or the slippage of such thru the fingers. Naw, he'll just argue or change the subject.

There are a number of benefits a homeowner derives from hiring a participating Mass Save contractor. Chief among those is a more knowledgeable contractor. To qualify for the program, licensed HVAC contractors must complete certain training:

• Air Source Heat Pump and Variable Refrigerant Flow (VRF) primary installers: EPA Section 608 Certification and certification of air source heat pump installation training provided by a heat manufacturer.
• Residential Air Source Heat Pump Installers must provide certification of Cold Climate Sizing and Design Training by a heat pump manufacturer. All installers must complete assigned Cold Climate Heat Pump trainings via the Mass Save Energy Efficiency Learning Center.

Over time, I expect the same education requirements will apply to all HVAC contractors in the Commonwealth. Proper system design, coupled with proper installation, will go a long way toward reducing carbon emissions.

Proper equipment + correct installation + manufacturer’s rebate + State rebate = happy customer.

Chief among those is a more knowledgeable contractor.

Charles that's rich coming from someone who doesn't purchase refrigerants, gets into discussions of DIY / quoting phrases like: Hey AC and heating is not rocket science. LOL.

Proper equipment + correct installation + manufacturer’s rebate + State rebate = happy customer.

I've seen deals of the century go off the tracks more times than you can imagine. Pretty equipment that doesn't work worth a $20 bill in an inflation storm.

It's a common phrase when I ask new customer: why they are calling me when their current AC unit may be 1-2 years old / in some cases 3 to 5 years old.

How they answer it (most often): we got a good deal.

Hey the only reason I'm doing this is because the government is dangling a carrot in front of me. That same entity phasing out refrigerants the equipment uses to work.

Happy is a frame of mind. Those that relate happy to money -- aren't happy for long. (Money or the lack there of doesn't even put a down payment on happiness. -- You're being sold bro.)

The difference from those that post here is they don't actually do HVAC. (Context for those who read the forum and don't post.)

For the record I am EPA universally certified to handle / purchase any refrigerant.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

Unfortunately, there exists many a nefarious hvac sharpey who will try to convince people into purchasing a system that is completely inappropriate. We had one instance where one place wanted to install mini-spilts, in place of an existing ducted system, and remove the existing NG furnace. Most of the HVAC places are using the rabate carrot, inflating the installed price, completing the paperwork process for the cuscustomer, and reaping the rewards.

I am not going to stoop to that level, so opted for here is the price, and you may send in your own forms.

Heat pump technology is nothing new-Air cycle machines on airplanes utlize the same technology, eg you compress air to heat it, you expand air to cool it. It is amazing stuff, I can take 450f compressor bleed air off an engine,

, and spit snow out of those little overhead ducts that you try to open while starting an engine. How do you start a turbine? Bleed air. Same thing with heat, and it melts snow and ice off the wings as well as the engine inlets, nothing new here.

We looked at several makes, however many simply were not available Locally. Recent reviews from both Bryant, and Lennox read ”run”. So, you don‘t know who to believe?

Contractor, yes registered with state. I may have been born with a hammer in my right hand, but chose the control yoke in my left.

ASE certified auto technician, EPA A/C certification.

The neat thing about air conditioners is that they all subscribe to the same theory: suck, squeeze , bang , blow.

What are the makes of the two-three year service calls?

"The neat thing about air conditioners is that they all subscribe to the same theory: suck, squeeze , bang , blow."

That's an internal combustion engine. No suck and no bang with an AC.

The neat thing about air conditioners is that they all subscribe to the same theory: suck, squeeze , bang , blow.

What are the makes of the two-three year service calls?

Trane, Carrier, Lennox, Amana, American Standard, Goodman, York, Ruud, Rheem.

(not in any particular order, they all break especially in the realm of deal of the century type of implementation... it is the most common reason I am told in person at the time I'm there, not just saying it here for theatrical purpose -- It's been going on for nearly 30 years now that I can report on.)

I've heard nightmare scenarios on Bosch as well, haven't lived any of that personally yet. But I don't have half as many "dumb" problems as some due because most of the time they prescribe to nonsense. My opinion. I have a right to that opinion with 30 years in HVAC this month. Even if you don't like it. ;-) 90% of my job is telling you things you aren't going to like. Some like to make friends -- how do you do that? lie, cheat, steal -- not uncommon for me to be viewed as the enemy UNTIL? -- you get to decide that. What is your breaking point. Everyone has one. Gimmicks don't last forever. Tick Tock. -- all that said Bosch is young in my market came here just over 4 years ago in 2019)

In my experience the operation of an AC -- they suck (mildly) and blow with purpose. If it doesn't suck, it ain't gonna blow for long... lol. If the equation changes to squeezing and banging -- get your pocket book ready in this heat. (100F+ here, no joke)

Not sure why people like to think that certain brands (makes) are immune to trouble. -- it's an AC myth.

Glad to hear it all worked out for you. Hard to follow all the posts..... what was your final system - heatpump with new NG furnace, heatpump with old NG furnace, Heatpump with electric backup? And do you mid sharing the final, post-rebate price?

Bosch Bova 2, retaining existing 95% ng furnace with integrated controls. Total out of pocket-$2500.

Thanks for circling back and reporting you got your rebate, David. Good to know it wasn't "clawed back" as one poster suggested it would be.

"Total out of pocket-$2500."

Whooaaaa.............. That was a great deal!!!

There are three options when choosing the whole house rebate, so I selected the appropriate box, for the new configuration. It was a wise choice, as Ngrid performed an inspection. The Bosch is ecenomical to run, so by the time Winter approached, I had banked $1000+ with Ngrid, and still have half of that credit remaining. The rebates can still be had, and there is an income based credit that one can apply for, plus a HEAT loan, with free paper.