Inside the seed there is very little substance. A little bit of a plant (embryo), and mostly endosperm. The endosperm serves no function beyond germination, so, if the seed germinates, then the endosperm will have no effect on plant vigor beyond that whether it be a 10 week or 10 year old seed. Other then environment, the only determining factor in plant vigor would be genetics. During dormancy, genetic material is somewhat damaged, however, within cells there are enzymes which actually repair damaged DNA! In a seed cell, all functions, including enzymatic activity are held in a (nearly) suspended animation until seed dormancy is broken. One of the first things that happens is the enzymes go to work repairing the genetic material. If the DNA is so damaged that the cell can not repair it, it goes into cell suicide (apoptosis, programmed cell death). If enough of the genetic material is irreparable, we would not see any germination. If the damage is reparable, then normal cell life continues, assuming favorable growing conditions. I think, overall, aside from germination rate, seed age will not have any significant effect on overall plant health and/or vigor.

Carolyn I appreciate your information but it is out of date. There are also fines if you trade envelope is intercepted at the border for ALL parties involved in the trade. ***** My information is not out of date, actually, b'c there are the legal restrictions which are no longer enforced as opposed to the reality of the current situation. In addition one of the members at another place where I post is a customs official under now Homeland Security on this side of the Canadian border and is very helpful indeed. The current rules and regs for getting seeds from outside the US are explained in detail in the front of each SSE YEarbook since there are so many listed SSE members who live outside of the US. For instance, for several years the US has required a phytosanitary certificate for all seeds sent into the US and this was first introduced quite a few years ago to prevent noxious weeds being imported. I can tell you that it not only is NOT being enforced, but there was a hue an cry went out b/c those certificates cost $56 and seeds have to be examined by an approved lab and here and elsewhere those labs are few and far between and in many non-US countries are not even available. So then the USDA offered what's called a free Small Lots of Seed Permit, which is directed more for hobby growers, up to 50 seeds of 50 different varieties and the permit is good for three years. And the link is given to aphis/USDA, etc. But the reality of the situation has led to folks at many sites online where there are Seed Echange Forums offering and receiving seeds from many many countries with no problems at all. Many years ago I do know of a few folks whose seeds were quarantined here in the US but that was over maybe 10 years ago. I could list for you the seed companies in Canada, for instance, who sell seeds to anyone anywhere, including the US with no problems. I know well the owners of two of them, and so that's the reality of the situation. This year alone I've recieved seeds from: Canada UK Hungary Germany Russia Poland Slovenia Serbia ..... for instance, and I send seeds to them as well. A phyto ceretificate is required for any LIVE plant material going from the US to Canada and different countries have their own customs regs as well. For instance, one can't, or shouldn't, send tomato seeds to Australia b'c of their concern about Potato Spindle Virus which also infects tomatoes. There are NO restrictions for many other seeds that can be sent. One can't, or shouldn't, send tomato seeds to the NEtherlands b'c their customs prohibit it b'c of all the major tomato breeding companies that reside there in terms of comcerns about importing tomato diseases. Bejo seeds is headquaretered in the Netherlands, they are the ones who have been distributing the recent outstanding varieties of Dr. Randy Gardner, now retired from NCSU, but still breeding tomatoes. When those seeds from the Netherlands enter the US they DO have to be accompnied by a phyto certificate. Bejo has a website online. So no, my information about sending seeds to Canada and elsewhere is not wrong, it's probably more up to date than most folks know based on what I posted above. So onward we go. Carolyn

Tam, Black Cherry is OP so yes you can save seeds from it. ignore anyone who tells you the seeds were from a specialty catalog. The catalogs for commercial growers contain the same varieties that might be found elsewhere. And it also tells me a lot about that place that they were offering a PL Red Brandywine. I think those wrong varieties threads are long gone b'c it was so many years ago and it wouldn't have been much help to you anyway b'c since I did those many new varieties have appeared, and situations with specific seed sources also change and new seed companies have appeared in the meantime and a few of them are excellent. That is, one site was blasted for low germinating seeds and that situation was fixed. Another site was selling a large number of wrong varieties and it turned out that the person saving the seeds, etc., had a serious medical problem. So don't go backwards, best to go forward. Note, there's a current problem with Black Cherry seeds at Baker Creek. SOme lot numbers giving fruits true to form and other lot numbers giving something other than Black Cherry. If I had some extra seeds I'd send them to you, but I don't, and I do understand that your question is a much larger one in terms of the best places to get seeds. There are many many threads here where folks have lsited what's been best for them, and there are some listed that I simply can't agree with, so my own suggestion is to go with Tania's suggestions for seed sources b'c she's particular and is not going to list a company that she knows there have been problems with. Well, very few problems, but then...... LOL And there's NO WAY that I'm going to lsit companies to avoid for the same reason that person X loves tomato v ariety Y and person B HATES the same variety. In other words some folks are devotees of a site b'c their experience has been OK and others wouldn't buy seeds there at all. So one has to look at experiences folks have with this or that company over a longer time span. I've been psoting online about gardening and especially tomatoes since 1989 and always read/post at several such message sites so I and others who do the same do see feedback about companies and the seeds they offer as tow rong varieties, low germinating seeds, customer service, etc., when folks psot about that. Carolyn

ÂIs it true that winter rye cleans the soil of destructive nematodes, or adds beneficial nematodes, can't remember which.....? **** No, not true. Ebon rye has been suggested as a cover crop that might help lower the population of pathogenic nematodes. But I have many friends, especially in CA, who have bad Root Knot Nematode problems and several in the past have done controlled experiments with Ebon rye and found little to no difference. No, it doesn't encourage beneficial nematodes. Ppod, you don't have RKN problems where you live and you know I know where you live. LOL About TMV. As Dave said the strains of tobacco grown in the US , and that's at least for the past 20 years or so, are TMV tolerant. But Turkish tobacco is not TMV tolerant. Sudzy, in any case TMV is transmitted, or was, primarily by insects and these days any transmission is manual and occurs in large commercial greenhouses. But growing in one spot every year is not going to predispose plants to TMV b'c it's not out there to worry about any more. CMV is and many folks confuse TMV with CMV b'c the two viruses can exhibit similar symptoms. Growing in one spot can predispose to a build up of foliage pathogens, but I spoke to that in a post above in this thread. Carolyn