Best Evelyn substitute?

last year

I moved into a new home one year ago, leaving behind my 3 Evelyn roses because of the time of year. I figured I could simply repurchase them. 🤦🏼‍♀️

I have a couple gift certificates to use at Northland and am looking to come close to Evelyn in form and color, perhaps with a better growth habit. I’m looking at Abe Darby, Charlene de Monaco, maybe Bliss? Are there any that you would recommend? Or *not* recommend? Thanks!

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Dave5bWY

last year

last modified: last year

Hi Nicole, the same thing happended to me - I moved in ’21 and thought I’d just replace Evelyn this past year but, of course, it had to be the year it was discontinued. IMO there’s no near substitute for her and, to me, Abe and Evelyn are very different. I liked Abe, though, just as much and would get it if you’re able to. Abe actually has a better shrub shape than the awkward shrub Evelyn made. Evelyn was never a shy bloomer but Abe repeated faster, too.

PCdM and Bliss are good suggestions, too. I’m growing PCdM again now and love it but very much a HT - tall and upright. Bliss is a near perfect shrub - healthy, good fragrance, but the blooms do fade. Bathsheba is worth getting. I would add Eustacia Vye to the list. Also, if you’re okay with a once bloomer, Marianne would be the closest substitute for Evelyn.

Evelyn for reference

Abe

Eustacia

Bathsheba

Marianne

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Comments (53)

librarian_gardner_8b_pnw
last year
last modified: last year
Oh, if you're to trying a climber, then I also recommend Bathsheba. It tends to be more on the apricot side but oh my it's amazing.

It's a short climberclimberclimber.
oursteelers 8B PNW
last year
I like all three of your suggestions. The Princess is very large and healthy, Bliss equally healthy but smaller. I stayed away feom Abe for a long time because I’d always heard he was disease prone but he’s ok here and I don’t spray

Abraham Darby

Princess Charlene

Bliss
Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.) thanked oursteelers 8B PNW
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Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.)
Original Author
last year
Librarian, I actually have Bathsheba in my cart! I have wanted it for several years. I need to replace a climber that I think has given way to rootstock. I actually had bought it last year and my dog dug it up and tore it to bits.

Diane, Tamora is beautiful. I didn’t realize it was a parent of Evelyn. Thank you for the suggestion! I will have to look for her.

Nick, those photos are fantastic. I think I need both!
sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
last year
last modified: last year
All these roses can be more pink, more peach, or more apricot, deeper cupped, more/less fragrant, etc. just depending on weather, humidity, fertilizer, soil etc.

Abe

Bliss

Bathsheba

Evelyn

PCdM
Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.) thanked sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
librarian_gardner_8b_pnw
last year
I'm sorry you lost one Bathsheba already, I'm glad you're already planning to get it again. I love that rose.
BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)
last year
I think Abe is the best substitute for Evelyn. Sometimes I can’t tell them apart and call them both Abevelyn.
Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.) thanked BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)
User
last year
last modified: last year
I would avoid 'Abraham Darby' for PNW climates: it was a Blackspot disaster here unless sprayed every 7-10 days without fail.
Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.) thanked User
oursteelers 8B PNW
last year
I do not want to be argumentative but I’m about an hour away from Seattle and Abe is not bad. I never spray and while he can get a little I just pick off those leaves and its no problem.
librarian_gardner_8b_pnw
last year
Microclimates can make aa big difference.

I wonder if that's the difference.
sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
last year
last modified: last year
Rootstock might matter too because my two Fortuniana grafted Abes bloom more and get way less black spot than my Doc Huey grafted Abes. I don't have any own root Abes so I can't speak on that. Of course, the OP prob isnt going to be using Fort roostock in her climate? idk..
oursteelers 8B PNW
last year
My Abe is own root
User
last year
last modified: last year
@oursteelers 8B PNW If you're proactive in removing diseased leaves as they appear, that is going to go a long way towards keeping it healthy. I don't do that, so 'Abe' is a leafless mess IME. That said, just because it was a very unhealthy rose in my garden doesn't mean it won't fare better in someone else's conditions. But my experience with it means I cannot recommend it.

If its not healthy without a lot of fuss, it has no place in my garden.

I don't like to promote my own hybrids, but compared to 'Abe', 'Marianne' is remarkably healthy in the exact same conditions, with no Mildew or Blackspot and requiring no special treatment.
Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.)
Original Author
last year
Dave, thank you for the pictures and input! Marianne is beautiful, and I would consider a once bloomer.

I planted Eustacia Vye last year. I wasn’t in *love* with her blooms, though she was healthy and had a nice shrubby shape. I felt I really only got a half day of the lovely pink/apricot coloring before it just went full pink. I’m hoping for better this year.

Paul, I have been on the fence for a few years about Abraham Darby because of its reputation to be disease prone, but I’m in the Spokane area and so I’m less worried about BS (although last spring was long, wet, and cool so anything goes).
User
last year
@Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.) The only way you'll find out is by trying it for yourself. Best of luck!
flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
last year
Nicole, I'm in Spokane county, north of Spokane, and grow both Evelyn and Abe. Abe is, hands down, my preference. Many, many more blooms from my one Abe than from my two Evelyns combined. And, of course, no disease in this normally dry climate.
Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.) thanked flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
librarian_gardner_8b_pnw
last year
Nicole, get Marianne!! It's one of my favorites! It was in stock at Rogue Valley Roses last week . It may still be
Josg Maggsib
last year
Dave, wondering what height you get on those roses in zone 4 and if you cut back.

Paul, I managed to pre order a Marianne from RVR and I’m very excited to try it out.
Dave5bWY
last year
@Josg Maggsib - Those were from my previous garden in Missouri but I was able to replace PCdM, Eustacia Vye, Marianne, Abraham Darby this year. I’ll see how they do and can let you know.
Diane Brakefield
last year
Flowers, would you like another Abe? We don't seem to be growing the same rose. Mine, of course, is The Twig, and remains so. Is your Abe own root? And I noticed that Nicole is zone 6b and you're zone 5; is there that much difference in cold temps near Spokane, not to mention disease pressure, which we both don't have? Diane
susan9santabarbara
last year
Diane, if you're serious about getting rid of your Abe, I'd love to adopt it. The idiot gardeners literally broke my 20 year old Abe off below the graft in November.
Ryan Coastal LA Zone 10b
last year
Ouch Susan. So sad to lose such a mature rose. I have errant toddlers that roam through my pots playing dinosaurs very realistically and I recently lost a baby rose so I can’t imagine losing a 20 year old.

I’m surprised Abe was able to be contained in a pot, which is why I don’t grow him…I saw Abe at the local garden and he was a huge 6x6 monster! If you kept him happy in a pot for 20 years it gives me hope, if so ever find room.
Meg-zone8aOR
last year
@librarian_gardner_8b_pnw Thanks for the info about Marianne being in stock at RVR, I thought I was signed up to receive an email notification if she was available but I must have missed it.
berrypiez6b
last year
last modified: last year
Diane - I am convinced there is a definite split in the lines of Abraham Darby. My first one, a 4 year old own root from Northland Rosarium got booted out of my garden a few years ago. Although my memory is declining it's safe to say this new Abe from Heirloom ( they discontinued him ) is very different . I'm sure it is Abe Darby from the photos on HMF. This second summer will be the test to see how vigorous it becomes.

I tried to find old photos, the petal construction of the first Abe was much more loose and was not flat faced.
Moses, Pittsburgh, W. PA., zone 5/6, USA
last year
last modified: last year
Bathsheba, above, comes the closest to having that intricate center Evelyn has, but for easy to grow qualities, Bliss is phenomenalqphenomenalphenomenalqphenomenal!!! Maximum reward for minimal effort...what else can we ask for?

Moses
Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.) thanked Moses, Pittsburgh, W. PA., zone 5/6, USA
oursteelers 8B PNW
last year
Bathsheba is an amazing rose in every way but I do like the coloring on both Evelyn and Abe better
Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.) thanked oursteelers 8B PNW
Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.)
Original Author
last year
last modified: last year
I ended up ordering Bliss, PCdM, and Abe, and threw in Queen of Elegance for fun. I’m planning to get Bathsheba as well.

I went to grab Marianne from RVR but they were out, not realizing Northland carries it as well. So I guess I will be adding that one too. 😀
User
last year
@Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.) I don't see 'Marianne' listed at Northland Rosarium. I gather it once was, but isn't now.

I just discovered there's another nursery in Spokane that sells it: https://rosariumgardencenter.com/products/marianne

And right around the corner from me, is Dancing Oaks Nursery, which also sells it: https://dancingoaks.com/products/rosa-marianne

And Peter propagates it at Freedom Gardens: http://www.combinedroselist.com/freedom-gardens.html
Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.) thanked User
oursteelers 8B PNW
last year
Just wanted to say Northland ships but the Rosarium is in person only :)
librarian_gardner_8b_pnw
last year
Thanks for sharing about Dancing Oaks, Paul. Now I want to plan a day trip from Eugene!
Diane Brakefield
last year
Susan, I'll keep Abe for now because I can't fit any other rose in his small space. I don't think I could ship an entire plant to you in California, anyway, because your plant import rules are like Idaho's. Very strict.

I still think Tamora is a good substitute for Evelyn, but Abe is probably next after her. My little Abe's blooms ave lovely, but on the small side and tend to face plant if low on the bush because his little canes can't support the blooms. I don't have this problem with Evelyn, of course. Her blooms are larger, often cup shaped, as well as flat, and pink as often as apricot/peach in color. Abe's blooms are consistently apricot/peach and flat in structure. Diane

Evelyn

Evelyn

Abe

Abe
oursteelers 8B PNW
last year
Dames de Chenonceau is another that shares a resemblance with Evelyn but more pink than peach whereas Evelyn is more peach than pink, at least in my yard
Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.) thanked oursteelers 8B PNW
oursteelers 8B PNW
last year
Sonia Rykiel is another one
Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.) thanked oursteelers 8B PNW
susan9santabarbara
last year
Diane, thanks, I knew it was a very long shot for several reasons. But I would have proudly labeled his plant stake as "Twig Darby" :-D

I had Tamora, Evelyn, and Sonia Rykiel, amongst scores of others, that I gave away in my great rose culling in 2006-07. Many I now regret giving away, particularly Tamora. But I had to cull the herd, having reached 375 in my earlier crazed rose zest.

Ryan, I think the reason my Abe was too easily broken off is that DA has a habit of grafting their roses with ridiculously long shanks (one of my pet peeves). And Abe's shank never got super thick. So he was fine until the guy with the monster blower with the huge jet pack on his back barreled through like a bull in a china shop. I was just about to make cuttings of Abe to have as a back-up, before he was murdered. I'll get him again eventually!
Nicole G. (6B Inland WA St.)
Original Author
last year
@User yes, sorry, Rosarium Garden Center is where I ordered ‘Marianne’. Northland Rosarium and the Rosarium Garden Center used to be the same business, but Northland (mail order) split from the in-person side. I haven’t gotten used to the name change. 😀
Diane Brakefield
last year
Oursteelers, where did you get your gorgeous Sonia Rykiel? She's a stunner. How is her blooming and reblooming? I wanted this rose several years ago, and then forgot her, and now I can't find anyone who sells her. Dames is gorgeous, too. Thanks, Diane
BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)
last year
last modified: last year
Diane

Roses Unlimited has Sonia Rykiel. I just gave up my plant in my forthcoming order, so they should have at least one. I love Evelyn, but I have too many of her look alikes already…Abe, Bathsheba, Fun in the Sun, Charlene, Impressionist, Masora, Versigny. That’s Abevelyn, Bathvelyn, Charvelyn, Evelyn, Funvelyn..If I don’t stop, I’ll have one for every letter of the alphabet.

The Impressionist and Masora doing their best impression of Evelyn.
oursteelers 8B PNW
last year
And RU is where I got my Sonia, Dames also. They are very expensive to shop so i try to only order when they have six that I must have. I keep waiting for them to put Chartruese de Parme back in the mix but it never happens :(

I am really hoping Palantine will offer it again soon.

Anyway about your questions about Sonia, she blooms and reblooms nicely-she’s one I took pictures through out the season of.

She is a bit lax but I don’t mind that-she

can mingle with her neighbors. Blackspot also soes occasionally pop up but you wouldn’t have a problem with that
oursteelers 8B PNW
last year
Oops! Didn’t mean shop (prices are

good) meant ship!!
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
last year
@Diane Brakefield, FreedomGarden carries SoniaRykiel from time to time or will custom propagate. It appears all cuttings are currently spoken for, but one never knows.
flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
last year
Diane, I just saw your generous offer. One can never have too many Abes, however, since I have one, and Susan would love to grow him, I would be pleased if she is the lucky recipient, if you haven't sent him already. My posts have been disappearing, so I have not been on the forum lately.
Diane Brakefield
last year
Wellll, Flowers, I'm not sending any rose bushes to California or other areas, and end up in the jug for illegal plant exportation, or some other thing. Also as an ancient person, I don't have the energy to do such stuff, unless I want to give up gardening. But if you want to send me your gorgeous Abe, I will be a most happy recipient, and will post your bail if the Ag Dept comes after you. I'm sorry your posts have been disappearing. I thought maybe houzz had finally got the hint that we're onto them and their gremlins. Have you tried a different device to do your posting from? Perhaps, we should form a group to buy houzz bric a brac, so they would like the rose forum better, and make some money off us. Diane
sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
last year
If anyone ordered a Bliss from Edmunds...I got an email from Edmunds saying they had a crop failure for Bliss for 2023. I had ordered another one (I do have it already) so they sent a refund for that. Just letting people know. If you ordered it and didn't get that email, you should probably contact them. Now I gotta figure out where I can order another grafted Bliss lol.
DDinSB (Z10b Coastal CA)
last year
Susan -- I have a baby Abe (1 gallon over the summer) from Heirloom. Holler if you ever want to take a cutting!
Dave5bWY
last year
last modified: last year
@sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish) - With this discussion, I was thinking this weekend about ordering Bliss again for my new garden, too. ARE still has it on sale for $20.95.

https://antiqueroseemporium.com/collections/now-on-sale

I’ve only seen it ownroot through all US vendors including Edmunds but Palatine has carried it grafted in the past.

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) - The Impressionist of yours looks incredible!
DDinSB (Z10b Coastal CA)
last year
ooooh....I hope my Impressionist looks like that! I just tried wrapping mine around an obelisk. Looks a little wonky...And mine is young yet, from Heirloom as a 1-gallon.
Diane Brakefield
last year
Thanks, Ben, for the tip. Is RU's Sonia own root? I really want grafted roses. Your Masora and The Impressionist are perfection. I don't think I have a rose that duplicates the look of the big E. Not Abe, and even Tamora doesn't really look like her. She's a bit of a chameleon for me, as is Augusta Luise. That's what makes them great roses to my mind, complete with their problems and imperfections. There are many imitators, but there is only one E. Diane
sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida-9a-ish)
last year
Thanks Dave but I think I need to have it grafted. Even my grafted Bliss doesn't get very big. An own root would for sure be, either lost in the tropicals or devoured by the chickens lol. We also do have nematodes here as well..not as bad as S. FL but enough that most HTs etc need to be grafted unless they are very ambitious.
flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA
last year
Oh, yes! I forgot about the restrictions sending plant material to CA. And, ID, too, I guess. No such annoyances here in WA, yet, but those restrictions are probably keeping your gardens critter and disease free. I've sent cuttings and whole plants all over, especially to the east coast with no problems. None to CA, however. Sounds like Susan's best bet is to accept Deborah's offer.

The only thing I haven't tried sending posts on is my watch. I'll just wait for HOUZZ to fix their problem. My last two posts have not been deleted, so that's progress.
Diane Brakefield
last year
Flowers, even the reputable seller who sold me Abe Darby had to send it to Idaho stripped of leaves and in no soil. It was sold as a potted plant, but it couldn't be potted if it came to Idaho. Some sellers couldn't send anything to Idaho until this year. I'm not sure how these businesses were granted permission to ship plants this year, but something changed. I'm glad your posts are sneaking through--ha. Gremlins must be sleeping. Diane