Pam - I see you saw my comments on the rudbecka Rustic not-really-dwarf mix on the other thread. For folks who missed that, the 1/8 oz pack at Swallowtail (in their annual seeds section) contains about 3000-4000 seeds so that actually beats the prices on most of what they offer in their bulk section. The Swallowtail bulk section is always worth checking, but sometimes they also have wickedly huge seed packets at low prices in their regular section. Some of my faves there include: California poppies at 4500 seeds for $2.49 - $2.95 depending on type. Strawflowers, 5000 seeds for $2.49 Cosmos, 1300 seeds for $1.95 Foxgloves Excelsior hybrids at 20,000 seeds (yes, no typo) for $2.95 but currently out of stock. (But you could get 2500 seeds from ValueSeed.com for $0.99 if you need a bunch right now.) They've got some other bargains in there too but those are my favorites. Their xeranthemum and paper daisies have bargain packs but I wasn't impressed with the flowers or plants - especially when compared to their tall strawflower mix. That tall strawflower mix is a real winner. I didn't know they were as hardy as they were - my plants were green and flowering into the beginning of December here. In your area you might still have them blooming at Christmas. Another of my favorites is Helenium Autumanale - especially after seeing it as Bluestone's Perennial's cover flower in last year's catalog. I bought a pack from the bulk section at Swallowtail - 1000 seeds for just under $10. I got those in late May last year. The germinated fast (and with a very high germination rate), transplanted well, many bloomed the first year and I got a nice seed farm level of seed out of those. Helenium flowers are gorgeous with a lot of variety. They blow in the breeze in a super pretty way. I don't think it's possible to take a bad photo of them. I ended up hositing a photo group on Flickr just for helenium flowers because they are so beautiful. They are even super easy and fun to seed save from - seeds pop right off without fuss. AND they are long lived and perennial to zone 3. Oh, and they propagate easily by division so that once you have a favorite color you can divide it and make a garden full of clones if you like. I also think that they are likely to be a hot item for gardenweb seed and plant trading. Unless everyone who reads this ends up growing their own. :) Lynda Here is a link that might be useful: Slideshow from Flickr Helenium group

Steven, I had the same thought as Gotta-, that 3 feet might not be enough. In my own experience with that exact amount of room next to my 30 foot long fence was that I simply kept digging up more and more lawn and the bed gradually widened and began to undulate . . . here 4 ft, there 5 ft, back to 3ft etc. Being a not-so-tidy type person I rather enjoyed this unplanned way of adding to my garden. I've made some lovely little beds using 1 or 2 ft., so I know delightful things can be accomplished in 3 ft and you have a wonderful plan in the works, so I'm not suggesting you use my method. I just wanted you to keep in mind that you may be out there digging up the lawn at some point. I'm excited for you that you have all this new space. I'm guessing you're happily up to your elbows at it this very moment. ENJOY and keep sharing your progress with us! Patti

"Early this spring, I cut the stems quite low for both plants, and I was hoping to get some massive blooms, but no such luck... " You should of hoping for the quite opposite effect, which in reality you have indeed. Cutting it low will induce numerous new shoots thus more, but smaller flowerheads. The higher you leave the last years stems than less lateral offshots you'll have. In exchange number of blooms will be lesser, but they will be larger. Re: reblooming. Not realy reblooming, but you could trick it into producing flowerheads not all at once (1-2 weeks), but rather say... during a 3-4 weeks period. To do so I prune randomly some portion of the shrub in early spring (in a leafless stage) and another portion as soon as I see appearance of the first leaves (visualy shrub start look green from the distance, but you still see some individual canes). End result: you changing longevity of the three middle phases of its bloom, 1. all green 2. already white + still green, (short term) 3. all white, (long term) 4. already green + still white (short term) 5. all green again. Now the same traditional sequence will look like this, 1. all green 2. already white + still green, (long term) 3. all white, (short to medium term) 4. already green + still white (long term) 5. all green again P.S. Experimenting with arborescens is easy, fun and riskless- it will bloom no matter what :-))

jenna..I am a trailrunner :) I always dreamed of running the Leadville 100 but wasn't THAT good LOL ! I did 24 Ultra-marathons in 4 years. Travelled all over the US and Canada to compete. Now I just run for fun. I have done a lot of mountain biking too. Can't imagine riding the Leadville. Your nephew is AWESOME !! Would love to see pics of him doing his thing..action shots :) I leave here June 2 and will be back sometime in early September so let me know if you are going to P'cola and we will meet up . Sochi...you are so nice !! Thank you . I added some herbs today so it is going to be very full. I couldn't find any clemmies that I liked at the nursery so I will probably mail order them next year. Too warm here now...80's some days. It is pouring rain now. We are getting the storms the mid west got. We aren't going to get the tornadoes etc though..at least they say we aren't. The thunder woke me :( I hope you will all take pics of your gardens and post. I love to see what others are doing and get ideas. c