This is way beyond me. But just wanted to comment on a couple of things - religious deconstruction journey, now that is an interesting concept.

What has happened does exist and it has brought you to the here and now. You may not want to believe it or dwell on it but it has formed you and your decisions about the choices that you made along the way to bring you to today. The future has definitely not been written,

I'm probably being too literal about a lot of your comments.

Yes, maybe you are approaching it too literally. What happened yesterday happened. It is no longer here, it is no longer now. So it no longer exists. Understanding it this way has enabled many to let go of painful past experiences. Experiences of the past may have formed our thoughts and opinions, but it did not actually make "us", the very essence of our being, anything. Our essence (or soul or spirit, or whatever you want to call it) is unchanging. At least this is one tenet of this ideology.

What may happen tomorrow? Who knows. I think we can probably agree that it's not terribly hard to understand that the future is not "a thing that exists." The past existed, but as a "here and now" moment, at one time that has now gone. All of those "here and now" moments are gone and therefore nonexistent. I'm not trying to assert anything by saying this, but in my own experience, I have had to be ready to grasp some of these concepts on a level that somehow goes deeper than the visceral, and I wouldn't have been ready to accept them before.

Why do you think that religious deconstruction is an interesting concept, blfenton? I'm just curious. It's actually looked upon as sort of a current trend, and I personally know a number of people who are going through it at this time.

I think I need to have a better understanding of this topic.

I can relate to being in the present and staying focused.

There is also a teaching that holding onto what we perceive as our identity (usually derived from past experiences that have formed our thoughts and opinions) is not wise. I struggle with this, as I've always thought that who I am is the way that I present myself, and the picture that I have of myself. I'm eager to learn more about this way of thinking.

I think Trail may have some insight into these things, and hope she'll see this and share.

"Living Untethered: Beyond the Human Predicament" by Michael A. Singer and "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle -- both are books I recommend checking out.

Ida, you are so well-spoken. I really enjoy reading your thoughts and can relate to much of this.

I find this topic very intriguing and am interested in delving further, thank you!

(As a sidenote: lately, I’ve been feeling like I‘m in an intellectual rut for various reasons. This is timely, as I’m seeking to change that. I love researching and learning — this will be an interesting topic to study.)

Tolle‘s teachings and mindfulness gave me my life back after my stroke. I now realize that living looking back at the past caused my depression while projecting forward caused my anxiety and now that I just stop, watch and breathe in this moment I am peaceful and able to handle what is right infront of me.

I don’t know anything about Eckhart Tolle, but I do practice meditation daily and mindfulness as I am able.

Just curious, but are you seeking to augment Christian belief / prayer with other practices, or replace it? I know people who have done both, and it was not clear from your deconstruction reference which path you are on. IME those who seek to replace their religion seem to be coming from authoritarian or fundamentalist denominations which, even if in their distant history, have left emotional scars. If you have any interest whatsoever in maintaining Christianity as a presence in your life I would recommend visiting an Episcopal church, or perhaps a Unitarian Universalist church for Christianity in broader context of other world religions, even though Obviously a ”church” is not necessary for spiritual growth. You may also be interested in taking a university level course on world religions for a historical perspective as an adjunct to your more current reading. Good luck, and it sounds as though you are making headway with mindfulness… getting over impatience in traffic is huge, seriously.

I understand totally, and like you, enjoyed reading Eckhart Tolles book The Power of Now. It sits on my bookshelf and every once in a while, I will take it out to remind myself to live in the now. Too much of our thoughts and time are wasted on what has happened in the past and trying to figure out the future. I remember watching Oprah interview him on her show years ago, and found it very interesting.

The first time I came upon mindfulness in a book, was one by Deepak Chopra. He spoke of breaking habits, addictions by practicing mindfulness. At the time, I was trying to quit smoking and his words made so much sense to me and helped me to quit.

I'm glad that you are finding it all so intriguing I like your comment about recentering yourself and how everything else melts away. That is so what mindfulness is all about. It is a very freeing experience. Although it is not a state that I can envision for myself all the time, but it does give you a great time out of the monkey minds we tend to live in.

I've not studied anything like this but appreciate how much not being preoccupied with the past or the future contributes to my peace and wellbeing. I'm pretty good at staying in the here and now and focusing on what is good and uplifting and letting go of what is not. I especially don't dwell on the past. I can at times go off on a tangent about the future but I've learned many times over that I work myself into a spin over things that never happen so I'm pretty good at just shutting that off if I'm going down that path.

I'll be back. I'm off for a trail run in the forest, my calm place.

Central to Bill W and Dr. Bobs' understanding of one path that could be taken away from addictive behavior and thoughts. Beautifully expressed by roarah.

Regarding our pasts … some things are just too profound for me.

Watching and caring for both my mother and husband as they suffered such long and slow tortuous deaths, and the aftermath, has definitely shaped who I am now. I don’t dwell on the images and memories every minute, but the losses, and watching such horrific suffering, is extremely difficult to put out of mind.

I’d like to delve more into that particular aspect of mindfulness. Of somehow coming to peace with things. I’ve learned to cope, and move forward, of course, but it is always surrounding me.

So how this relates to intense grief is something I’d like to learn more about.

ETA: I have never been good at meditation. My mind races too fast. It makes me anxious.

Jinx, in addition to mindfulness I found EMDR really helped me process my trauma and finally push it out of the fore front of my thoughts and thus made me much more able to learn and practice mindfullness.I highly recommend EMDR after such traumatic losses.

Thank you, roarah. Many of my widowed friends (I met via a support group) have done that with success.

I’m so glad it helped you. ❤️

Thanks for input from everyone. Blfenton, enjoy your time on the forest trail! It occurred to me while recently hiking in the high desert of New Mexico, as I watched the sky darken and heard thunder rolling through the canyon, that for me, that's what worship is all about. I have felt more profoundly connected to creation and a creator (yes, I believe there is one) in times such as those than in any man-made structure listening to a sermon being delivered.

Roarah, I am so glad that you found tremendous help through Tolle's teachings. How did you find them? Have the concepts become easier to put into practice with time? I think it's something that probably doesn't come naturally to us, or at least it doesn't to me, so I'm very interested in how others have developed their practice of mindfulness -- and maybe that's actually the key: Practice.

Barncatz, that's right. I've read in several places how Bill W. applied these teachings as he developed the steps.

Orchidrain, I've not read any Chopra but intend to. I would also like to study the teachings of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh. I've actually been listening to a Christian podcast that makes reference to him in a very positive way.

Kswl, to answer your question -- I don't quite know yet. For now, I'm probably most interested in simply having an open mind and exploring. My deconstruction journey thus far has taken me to a place where I no longer believe most of the fundamental teachings I held as truth for most of my life, and you're right that there have been emotional scars sustained. I am also finding a sense of peace in embracing, to an extent, the term "agnostic." For me, it simply means that I don't profess to know that which is inherently unknowable. And I no longer hold scripture to be inerrant, which for me is huge and opens the door to "more."

Jinx, it's interesting that you too are yearning for something a little deeper. I would definitely encourage you to begin reading Tolle, Singer, Chopra - actually any that might resonate with you if you can read excerpts on Amazon. I feel certain that there are important takeaways for those who are grieving. I don't know exactly what they would be, but perhaps just a further exploration into recognizing that all we truly possess is right in this very instant in time. Initially I found this to be a very frightening concept, but the more I dwell on it and learn about it, the more I see how incredibly liberating it is meant to be.

I can relate to not feeling like I'm good at meditation. Michael Singer actually made me feel much better about this, because he says when you recognize that your mind has wandered, you have been drawn back to the inner you. And so you just begin again with being in the moment. Your mind WILL wander, but be encouraged when you recognize that it has done so. You're becoming more mindfully aware. :-)

I like that take on it!

My experiences and feelings on religion, as you know, are identical to yours. As is the love of being in nature. There’s nothing better. I suppose I am able to meditate in those circumstances. I go very zen. :)

I like the visualization of thoughts as helium balloons that float on by after i catch myself having them. Hold the balloon, acknowledge and observe it then release it into the air to float away.

I also did alot of research on neurotheology and read numerous studies on how meditation is shown to improve cognation in people who already have early cognitive decline and this gave me hope after losing so much of my brain to infarcts. kK meditation is seen to help improve early decline in alzhiemers’ patients. The chanting and finger positions done at a quick pace really help prevent your mind from wandering. Easy video I started kk meditation with. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jfKEAiwrgeY 

Great recent article on meditation’s many benefits. https://www.psychnewsdaily.com/kirtan-kriya-may-preserve-cognitive-function-in-alzheimers-patients/#Spiritual_fitness_and_Alzheimer8217s

Roarah, I absolutely love the balloon imagery. It's important to acknowledge the thoughts, feelings, emotions, but equally important to let them go. And that's what I have struggled with for most of my life - the letting go and not clinging to them, even (or maybe especially) those that are negative.

I have never heard the term Kirtan Kriya before, and appreciate you sharing about it here. I will definitely look into this further. I've been part of a fairly progressive protestant church where breath prayer was taught, as were meditative concepts such as labyrinth travel. I'm very interested in going deeper and learning more about practices of this nature. I have long felt conflicted about my prayer life, not really content to follow that which was modeled for me most of my life. I want a real connection to the divine, not just words echoing around in my head.

“And I no longer hold scripture to be inerrant, which for me is huge and opens the door to "more." ”

This is a major sea change for many Christians. I suppose I was lucky, because I became a Christian as an adult, with no guilt or baggage or need to believe in anything that doesn’t make sense to me. The virgin birth, all the miracles…. my position, if you will, is that Mary must have been a pretty wonderful mother to raise someone like Jesus, who earned his place as the son of god by explaining the father to others in a way that was uniquely accessible and relatable. The miracles? Wasn’t it miraculous that a person took time to lay hands on a filthy beggar, to tell him to wash his eyes, to breathe life into someone given up for dead? Those simple acts of care and kindness were miracles for that time. That we now choose to view a simple person’s eye witness account as supernatural says more about Christians than it does about Jesus…...imo of course. Every religion has holy teachers who come to bring enlightenment, and as far as I am concerned they are all the sons and daughters of god, as are we all. I am perfectly comfortable calling myself a Christian even those I regard most chapters of the bible— particularly the O.T.—as an early version of Aesop’s fables or Grimm‘s fairytales, full of cautionary tales for keeping people in line. 😎

I know you retired rather recently and am so happy that you have the time and space to devote to your spiritual well being.

Thank you, roarah, for those links. I'm bookmarking them.

Saa-Taa-Naa-Maa ... Roarah, I really like that video. It's quite beautiful. Simple, and yet I can understand how it is effective. I sat and listened quietly for 4 minutes (no time to go through it all), and in that short span I felt a sense of the start of unburdening.

Kswl, I'm sure it's a very different experience coming to Christ as an adult vs. as a child growing up immersed in a dogmatic theology. Although my story is my own, I almost wish I could've lived your story. I'm dealing with some emotional fallout from my experience, and sometimes it appears randomly and when I least expect it to. For instance, when we recently went on a road trip and were on the interstate with traffic rolling along in excess of 75mph, I recalled vividly how the pastor of the church I grew up in would walk up and down the aisle at "invitation" time towards the end of each service, white spittle forming at the corners of his mouth as he railed at the importance of coming down front to make the public profession of having "accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior". He would often say, "You don't know what tomorrow will bring. Every time you get out there in your car and drive down the road -- see that other car coming in the opposite direction? Why, that's death driving right by you. It could hit you at any time, and you could be called to your eternal destiny." Dang. Talk about your hard sell. I so internalized that, though, that even on this most recent road trip I found myself repeating a mantra in my head about "death" passing right by us. Suddenly I felt like something shook me deep inside and told me, "Or maybe it's just traffic going in the opposite direction, like normally happens!"

That sounds crazy when I relay it that way, and yet ... well. It is what it is.

I appreciate your enlightened thoughts and hope you will share more.

Oh, and I did retire after 29 years with one organization, but am actually working with another currently and plan to remain here for at least some time to come. I am thoroughly enjoying my work, my colleagues, and a culture where DEI is vitally important, so still employed - but rewardingly so.

Saa taa naa maa means birth life death rebirth.

Glad you are exploring Ida. It's nice to see.

I understand your deconstruction process having gone to religious schools 1-12 grades. I've seen many former class mates goes through this as well. One school year was a fundamentalist Christian school and that was eye opening for me as a young 8th grader having attended by comparison Lutheran school previously. The things I was instructed, the things I witnessed, it was deeply disturbing. As a non-practicing Catholic family and attending Lutheran school, I was not prepared for such things to be angrily shouted at children. Grown up me is relieved it was only one year. Anyhow, I had less to discard and cleanse myself of than the 'lifers' at that school, but it was still a process.

The authors ^^^ listed in this thread are wonderful. I also like Pema Chodron.

What I found in my journey was when flashbacks occur, to acknowledge the moment as it happened back then. Give comfort to the young you in that moment. In time, the shock of the flashback lessens and you will be able to soothe the part of you that is still dealing with moments such as those. I find saying "I'm sorry this happened to you. Things like this should not have been done/said to you" to my memory of young me is helpful. When you are young like that, you are impressionable and things like this are burned into the memory. Then I move on to my next thought of present day while giving a there-there to little me, and also the other young people who had been present for whatever the flashback may have been, hoping it sails through the universe and reaches them in some helpful manner.

I think because I did have a broader than many religious education as a youth, it afforded me an ability to let doctrine that is patriarcal and fear based in nature not define me. I could see it as an outsider at times. I still struggle with bizarre and often times unsettling flashbacks of those days, but from a perspective of 'that's really odd that people in power would say things like this with such vitriol to children and everyone seemed to approve?'

It is a process of rebuilding with kinder and gentler thoughts. What makes a good person is not any particular religion. It's their kindness and integrity.

My defining moment on this topic was in the 7th grade when our teacher was telling us who goes to h#ll. I asked if pre-historic people went there too by default since they wouldn't have known about Jesus. She said yes. They go to h#ll. That's when I demoted (in my mind) doctrines such as that. There were other groups of humans included on the list of who's not going to the upstairs place, but I'll spare everyone's eyes about that.

Happy reading Ida. Remember to be gentle on yourself when you try to meditate and the state of your pantry takes center stage in your mind. :-) I can monkey mind with the best of them. The goal is more about quieting the mind and yes, we do get better at it through practice.

I still believe in a higher power. I've read the bible cover to cover many times. When one reads it that way, you can see how it's picked and chosen as to what made it in and obviously things were left out. It's choppy at times. But I find it interesting and instructional. Some of the OT has some parts I do fast forward through as there's a bit too much vengence for my taste in some parts. Perhaps being a cafeteria Catholic by birth, I'm able to do the pick and choose as it feels right and not get caught up too tightly when my live and let live stance gets judged by some. ;-) Wishing you peace of mind as you sort it all out.

Religious deconstruction journey - I find this interesting because I see a couple of other friends who are not necessarily questioning their beliefs but are questioning the idea that there might be more to consider spiritually. Stats seems to be indicating that church attendance is declining and yet in some communities and countries religion is becoming even stronger as a force of ruling. That saddens me. I have, and have mentioned this before, no use for organized religion or the fact that you have to go to a building to worship and if you don't you are not considered Christian.

My sister just recently completed her Masters in Public Health Policy focusing on Indigenous Health and she would send me articles that she was reading on a variety of topics. Some of these topics involved their spiritual beliefs which are often engrained in a relationship with nature. There is a connection to the earth and all that it represents.

A few years ago I read a book called The Hidden Life of Trees by Peter Wohlleben and it really resonated with me. Some of it is scientific but much of it discusses the relationships between all the living organisms in the forest and how they support each other and how alive everything is. Given that I have spent the last 25 years running in trails that go on forever I really connected with it. Anyway, between the readings that my sister gave me and this book I began to reassess what spirituality meant. That is when I switched from being an atheist to agnostic. I don't believe in God but have come to realize that I do believe in something and someday I hope to be able to articulate it.

It was gorgeous in the trails today, fresh snow, light shining on the yellowing leaves on the few deciduous trees that are there, crisp and cold.

Trying to disavow your past - I am that typical story being the child of an alcoholic father. I realized in my early 40's that it was something I was going to have to come to terms with. I don't understand how you can grow or appreciate a future if you don't deal with childhood trauma. It is always there whether or not you choose to deal with it. It made you who you are. (Anyone ever read about Adult children of Alcoholics? not a pretty picture) I was lucky in that my father quit drinking when I was about 13 but my kids were entering their teen years and if I didn't reflect on it and make sense of it I was going to continue to carry that anger that I still had through my parenting.

It's very curious to me the lengths people go to to deny their creator. The grasping at concepts from people with no authority no real understanding the way our Creator would understand us. Mindfulness is just new words for letting ME ME ME decide because if we allow ourselves we can devolve into all about me. Clearing our mind of God's voice of our consious allows us to decide right and wrong for us--and well look around. How has that worked for those that are practising this? Are we better for it? Is it working for us as a society? I would say no. But hopefully you are young and have time to come full circle, because you will. Empty isn't very satisfying for very long.

Truth is One, Paths are Many.

Sea Sea and Blfenton -- thank you both so much for your very insightful and honest words. So much of what each of you says resonates so perfectly with me, and doesn't that just confirm that the human predicament is shared in so many ways, no matter how the specifics of our journeys may differ? :-)

Sea Sea, thank you for mentioning Pema Chodron. I have read only a bit about her, but will definitely learn more.

Blfenton, I can certainly see how "The Hidden Lives of Trees" must have had a profound effect on you. I might need to look into that one myself, as I too feel at my most connected when I'm on trails in the remote places where there's only the whisper of wind through the trees -- the places where the "phwoo-phwoo-phwoo" of a raven's wings as it sails overhead can instantly transport my spirit to what feels like eternal connection. Oh, how I love it! And how I long for more of it. And of course, having a lifelong affinity for indigenous cultures means I am keenly interested in the connection that many cultures seem to inherently have with nature. I am also intrigued by other things, such as the universality of creation mythology.

I certainly no longer accept the "God" that was taught to me in my youth. Yeah, the one that would send "those people" to eternal torment because they failed to please him. "Him." Nope, can't abide that either. I reject the patriarchy and refuse to lend it any credence whatsoever. There is so much I could say in this regard, but I'll get back to the topic at hand - mindfulness.

I very much like the idea of letting thoughts and emotions play across my mental screen, but with the real understanding that I - the true, real, present, living ME - is simply observing these things as they happen, and am equally able to let them pass without the need to hold them in place. That is such an intriguing concept to me, and one that I intend to keep exploring.

Ida, I don't mean to hijack your thread, but for those that are dealing with childhood trauma, may I suggest two John Bradshaw books, Healing the Shame and Family Secrets.

Please ... feel free to suggest anything that can be of help, and thank you!

I started meditating many years ago by listening to a Pema Chodron audio tape. Yesterday I was flying home from a trip to New York and I got to meditate my way through some severe turbulence. Pema Chodron has been a wonderful teacher and guide.

My son and I went to see Eckhart Tolle in Sept. in Oakland. I had read the Power of Now many years before and remember, at a certain section of the book, having a profound enlightening moment. It was if I discovered the meaning of life. Whatever the revelation was came and went quickly. I tried to recapture it but it was gone.

Sometimes, being in nature, if I sit quietly, clear my mind, I have almost an out of body experience, as if I am part of nature. I don't know if that has anything to do with being part indigenous. I've never connected to that part of my ancestry as we were not told much about it. I did find out that my mom was sent to a boarding school for "indian" children. They girls were taught domestic skills. They were also forbidden to speak their native language. So many children striped of their heritage. It's sad. Sorry for going off topic.

When my kids were teens I encouraged them to read The Power of Now, Road Less Traveled, and many others from my ever growing library of books. Always searching for the one that will answer my questions about life. I sent them (on my daughters 18th birthday, she never forgave me for that) to a Tony Robbins seminar. They came home excited about walking across hot coals and vowing to never eat shrimp again. Not sure if anything else stuck. Both are live in the moment and live everyday to the fullest kids so maybe that's what they learned.

I have always been fascinated by the concept enlightenment and self improvement. I think it started with going, not by choice, to an Actualization seminar in the 80's. I came away a different person, which lasted not more than a few months. I look back at that as being almost cult like.

Ida, if you learn any tips on keeping the "feeling" going, send them on! I think that's been my problem, slipping back into bad "mind" habits. My brain is going a mile a minute and I seem to always be narrating my life minute by minute. I find meditation extremely difficult. But the few seconds I achieve a clear mind are magical. Like the feeling that I have in some nature settings.

Good luck on your journey! And I do think of it as a journey rather than a place that we finally get to. I wish it was a place to get to, and I wish I was there. One of my problems is I'm always looking for a short cut. And maybe I am expecting too much, or missing the point.

In response and support of @roarah’s comment above. A close friend and her daughter were in a horrible auto accident, where a passenger in the other car was killed. They could see the boy who was killed looking at them as the cars collided. They both suffered horrible PTSD from the accident for several years. Traditional therapy was minimally helpful. Due to a colleague’s recommendation, my friend finally tried EDMR. It changed both my friend’s life and her daughter’s, they were actually able to live life again, and she had major improvement within a fairly short period of time. My friend said that this treatment literally saved her.

edited, I deleted my response to Arcy and apologize for derailing this post.

I really hope that this discussion stays on track and is not sidelined by senseless negativity. I would respectfully ask those who have no true interest in this topic to simply scroll on by and engage elsewhere. I was clear from the outset with this statement: I would love to hear experiences from those who also have an interest in, and are amenable to, these things. There are concepts and experiences that have been shared here that are of tremendous value. Please - let's not lose sight of what good this thread might do.

@blfenton - I've done a lot of research on ACA, some during college when I was pursuing a degree in Public Health. My interest was the result of personal experience with both parents. I think it's helpful to recognize how that impacts your life but not to dwell on it or have a victim mentality. Fortunately or unfortunately I had other major life events that made me move on and become stronger. I'm blessed to have a very positive, happy life which I largely attribute to overcoming adversity when I was younger. And I had no oppressive religious indoctrination when I was a kid. I chose what I wanted as an adult based on how my life evolved.

I'm certainly not a victim but it certainly does affect who you become. It's the same with any child. Their upbringing affects who they become. The only reason I started to assess my circumstance was as my kids were getting older into the teen years I knew I was going to have to deal with alcohol and to be aable to address it without flying off the handle. The kids knew from the time they were young that grandpa had a drinking problem which is why he never had beer or wine at family dinners.

I did make a choice in my early twenties that I would never have a relationship with someone who I considered to drink to excess. Neither I nor any of my siblings drink to excess but unfortunately two of my siblings did marry alcoholics which is not uncommon for those with alcoholic parents. And so in my family there is a second generation, 6 nieces and nephews who are adult children of alcoholics.

Interesting, Ida. After I retired, I too started a healing journey. I wanted to rediscover who I was after being defined 24/7 by where I worked for over 30 years.

This whole thread has triggered a ton of thoughts so in no particular order, I'll jot them here.

I pursued MBSR: Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction which was developed by Jon Kabat-Zinn and is based on mindful meditation from buddhism. He is retired now from UMass Medical school where he developed this program as a way to help patients deal with chronic pain. Buddhism is really a philosophy that is compatible with religions and need not be a replacement but can be a companion. MBSR is taught in a secular and scientific way, giving us tools to understand stress, what causes it, and how to handle it. There are many different meditation practices, but I found theirs to be targeted at my high stress levels at the time and easy to learn as they use guided meditations. I have since enjoyed many different types of meditation.

I strongly recommend guided meditations for anyone who is struggling with the process. It helps one maintain focus and calls back the wandering mind. A wandering mind is what everyone has and is perfectly normal and part of the process. It is not a sign that "I can't meditate." Free podcasts are available with specific themes at Meditation Oasis on line which I've enjoyed. Also youtube is chock full of meditations of various sorts and good to play with (lately I've been doing chakra with singing bowls). Over time I've found different types of meditations are helpful depending upon where I'm at and what I need.

Meditation is not a goal to achieve or a place to go. It is not a state of tranquility or bliss. It is a practice. It is becoming aware of what is happening right now...even if what is happening right now is negative such as stress, anxiety, fear, pain, worry, etc. It is noticing without doing anything about it, without judging, but with compassion and curiosity. (I believe it was Eckhart Tolle who talked of addiction and said the first thing of course is to admit you have a problem, but the second most important thing is to feel what you are feeling...this is the heart of meditation...experience what is there for you in this moment.)

I've enjoyed listening meditations very much...you become an antenna to receive whatever sounds are there for you, pleasant and unpleasant, just noticing what is there without judgment, with equanimity. You can remember hearing sounds in the past, you can anticipate hearing sounds in the future, but you can only actually hear them in the present moment. And as *all* sounds are part of your present moment, I've found myself becoming increasingly imperturbable during these sessions...much harder to be distracted.

Yes to Pema Chodron.

For those looking to deal with grief, I highly recommend Maria Sirois, "A Short Course in Happiness After Loss". She is a wonderful woman ...I was fortunate enough to attend one of her seminars ...and her book helped me a lot.

I will also recommend "The Book of Awakening: Having the Life You Want by Being Present to the Life You Have" by Mark Nepo. Also "The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself" by Michael A. Singer. Another I found very interesting was "Destructive Emotions: A Scientific Dialogue with the Dalai Lama" by Daniel Goleman. Many of these types of authors I found watching Oprah's Super Soul Sunday where she interviewed the authors.

There is a difference between religion and spirituality.

"“Everything in the past is memory and everything in the future is imagination. Those are both illusions – memories are unreliable and we just speculate about the future. The only thing that's completely real is this one instant of the present – and that's constantly changing from imagination to memory." -- Jeffrey Deaver

"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one." -- Albert Einstein

Meditation is not a goal to achieve or a place to go. It is not a state of tranquility or bliss. It is a practice.

Nicely put.

Thanks so very much to all who have added valuable input to this discussion! I appreciate those who have taken the time to share their experiences and learnings. This all remains so fascinating to me, and I want to learn more and more. Right now, I'm quite immersed in Tolle but will explore other teachers as well. I find it hard to adequately communicate what I'm learning -- or maybe it's not so much learning, but an awakening to these things. Early on along this path I decided to practice mindful listening. Not having a mind racing a mile a minute while someone else is talking; not half-listening to what they were saying while formulating my next response. Just quietly and intently listening. It doesn't quite come naturally to me -- or, it would perhaps if I were not constrained by compulsive conditional thought processes. The letting go of those processes is proving to be an adventure in itself. Mindful listening has, I have found, created a subtle but important shift in my relationships. To me, this is nothing short of miraculous.

There is something profoundly whole and good in leaning back and simply resting in the true self. Not the ego, but the underlying essence -- and it's thrilling how it can actually be felt as an energy that is very much alive. Perhaps you know what I mean. When you fall back into a present, mindful state, it's as though only then are you truly living as you actually are. As I said, I cannot adequately explain ... but if you know, you know.

Ida, Thank you for creating this thread. I found benefits from re-reading Ekhart Tolle several times since I found deeper understanding each time through. His podcasts are also helpful to auditory learners, and multiple listneings are similarly helpful. He taught me how to return to the stillness behind the Now.

The process of awakening to consciousness is so much easier to experience than to explain. Along with Tolle, I've also learned from Jon Kabbat-Zinn and Deepak Chopra, but for me, the most helpful teacher is Thich Nhat Hahn ("Thay"). The utter simplicity of much of his teaching makes it easily accessible, and many videos of him are available at Plum Village on YT. I suggest you listen to a few of his teachings when you're ready.

"Thay" (teacher) taught me that my monkey mind is just like a constantly broadcasting radio station, he calls it KNST radio (Konstant Non-Stop Thinking), and that I can touch my forehead and tell myself I'm turning off KNST. So helpful to stop bedtime thought churning. Tolle teaches that concept as the ever-vigilant ego-mind.

May you be at peace exactly where you are now. Today I know I am ultimately a spiritual being who wears a temporary flesh suit. As Eckhart says, if you've ever seen a dead body, you know the being is gone and the empty body remains, you are not your body.

Then, as Thay would say, I smile to my eyes as I read your words, and I smile to my hand as I click on Submit.

Namaste.

FYI, there's a thread I started on The Kitchen Table called Contemplations where people post thought and inspirational things.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/6239911/contemplations#n=303

As someone who is finding this conversation fascinating and would love to learn more - which is the best first book to buy? Tolle...?

smiling, touching your forehead reminded me of EFT tapping. I tried it for a while and found it helpful for concentration, but like most things that are good for me, I didn't make it a habit. Why are bad habits so much easier to maintain than good ones?

eta, thanks for starting this Ida. After seeing Tolle in person I vowed to reread Power of now and restart my spiritual journey. Your post urged me to dust off my copy and begin.

Ekhart Tolle's first book: The Power Of Now

Maybe I just wasn't open to it...I didn't get anything out of reading Tolle. Right after I saw his interview on Oprah, 2006, I picked up his book. Here's a taste...give it a listen...

And that's the thing, Nicole. Tolle himself says that you have to be ready to "receive" it. Until someone is, they simply won't. :-) Of course, it is this way with most things.