Your best bet would probably be Facebook groups.

O noes - can't be doing that. Terry. FB refusnik (along with Twitter, Insta, What'sApp and the rest of them). This here is my only internet chat group

I am so with you on that rosaprimula, no, no ,no to FB etc. This is the only forum I am on. Are there no UK forums on this platform or others within the UK? It would seem logical that many in your part of the country would be active. I do enjoy seeing pics (and hearing) from warmer areas than mine but I do not waste my time dwelling on plants I cannot grow. I will soon be buried under snow...sigh.

There are a couple of UK forums here on Houzz, remnants of the old GardenWeb when it was THE source for internet gardening info. But they are pretty moribund these days, unfortunately.

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/gardening-in-the-uk.

As to any regional US forums that might be appropriate, the Pacific Northwest is reputed to have a climate most similar to much of the UK - modified Mediterranean with mild, mostly snow-free winters and relatively cool summers with minimal rainfall. This a recurring summer drought area. I do know that pretty much anything that grows well there can grow here also and vice versa. Parts of California are very similar as well. (As a aside, I have found that not all US gardeners are as plant sophisticated or as focused on gardening as many of the UK contributors appear to be)

Northwestern Gardening

California Gardening

I too avoid any social media platforms as in my very personal opinion, it is an unfortunate evil that is responsible for the deterioration of civilization as we know it. But that's another story for another place and time :-)

Rosa, I have Talinum paniculatum. It does well in moist, shady spots here. So cute! Do you have any others?

There are a lot of forums on this site. Some for regions, some for specific genera. Some that are for topics other than plants. A few are active, most are duds at this point. List of forums on this site:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/explore-discussions

I'm with you on the social media NON use. I use a couple of garden forum sites and that's all.

Is it still possible for newer users to put their location/zone info? Your climate sounds similar to mine except that spring tends to be more rainy. Then it's not uncommon to not get any rain for 2 to 3 months when it's hot. But probably a LOT hotter here than where you are.

The previous comment does not even deserve a reply!! What an overt misinterpretation of what was intended by my statement. (and not at all surprising, considering the source).

And what a Facebook group devoted to Texas gardening has anything to do with gardening in the UK is quite mysterious as well. I cannot think of two less likely compatible topics!

Jay, you could have made your suggestions without the insults.

Eta I’m pleased to see the comments I referred to have been removed.

Jay, I reject your insults, but I don't throw them back at you. I just discard them as the garbage they are. I've used FB and I don't like it. Not sure why that is so concerning to you and I'm positive that non-use of FB is not an indicator of ignorance. I love a good rant but the level of passion in yours in this context is baffling. Does it make sense to tell people who have upset you that they're ignorant if they don't join you over on FB? It seems like irony to witness an anarchist critiquing the behavior of others. Is the anarchy only for you? I'm sorry this post has upset you, and I wouldn't worry about being quoted, I think you're safe. Or did you just mean that you don't want to defend against any responses?

As stated above the Pacific Northwest is the main part of the US that resembles Britain and Ireland climate-wise. With the rest of the US being markedly different. For instance the eastern half has torrid summers that various herbaceous perennials seen in UK gardens cannot endure. Even then the consistent historic concentration of precipitation in the winter here (PNW) has also been a significant difference. However lately Britain has been getting in on the warm and dry summer phenomenon also.

The amount of ignorance on most FB groups I've had interaction with (yes I do operate quietly over there) is usually about 10x worse than what I experience here (but then I try to avoid ignorant posts as an impediment to my blood pressure any more).

Yes, there are more live bodies on FB, but most of the brains have checked out. I'm sure there are a few pertinent groups over there, there have to be, with thousands/millions/billions being served every day.

As to the original post, most of us in the US have no more idea than a fish what your climate is like. Unfortunately, my climate differs greatly from someone about 40 miles west of me. It takes years (garden wise) to learn a new site and what will do well there. My last house was only about 100 miles away, but night and day difference in what I can grow. I wish there was an answer, but I don't know one.

The answer - in addition to reading about Pacific Northwest gardening - is using British information sources. Including the Royal Horticultural Society. And numerous others.

Sheesh, jusy checked and and am a bit flummoxed by the huge swell of emotions being tossed around. So much to respond to but starting with the easiest - FB. Now this is a genuine sadness for me that I feel completely unable to manage FB, thereby denying myself access to other garden crazoids who LOVE to chat about plants as if they were old family friends (as well as worrying but thrilling interlopers). Small though this forum is, there are just enough of us, who love what we are doing and want to share, to keep me here (again). I found FB to be intrusive, even with all the privacy boxes ticked, That bloody notification - requests from people I barely know (and don't much like) to become 'friends'...and actually finding the interesting groups isn't easy either But mostly, I am not wanting to be part of an alogorithm as a witless consumer. It does irk me that so many GWebbers nipped over to the dark side.

Jay, yours was a voice I had missed, not least because I have swapped seeds and became really very interested in US natives. I think your outrage is understandable and actually illustrates some of the paradoxical feelings we find in this online age. Some of us have been in communication for literally decades so it is not surprising that relationships form and we feel a sort of knowing connection...while at the same time, being fully aware that we are all strangers on a screen, miles and miles from each other. The intimacy and distance that we simultaneously experience can be profoundly unsettling. Mostly, on here, we are very good at compartmentalising our lives - we generally avoid contentious topics (how I got banned, incidentally) and do behave quite civilly towards each other...but we are all very passionate and alive so when someone claims to loathe such a such a plant (which I do, a lot), it is hard not to take it quite personally...and if we actually DO get personal...well, phew!!!

Ebothrium - I ALWAYS value your advice and obviously, I do make use of resources like th RHS (and HPS, NARGS, SRGC)...but what I really value (because I don't get it in my daily life) is the to-and-fro dialogue between plant lovers...which you can only get from message boards and (shudder) social media. Which is why I was asking about other forums on here. I should say though - small though this little forum is, I did get a couple of succinct replies to an earlier request for info about new-to-me plants so I am certainly not knocking this little site (although the larger Houzz is a bit sh*t).

DBarron, I honestly take your point - I am not really looking for climate twins though - just wondering which forums are where people are likely to grow Z8/9 plants, alongside all the hardy perennials we know and love. So we can have some chitchat,

I grew Jewels of Ophar, Tiff, but it never got a chance in the open garden as snails munched the lot in a single night of feasting (mollusc apocalypse - the shelly little f****ers).

Rosa, so sorry about your plants! Better luck next time. ; )

I think this perennials forum is for the discussion of any perennials in any location. Those who have been around here since the start would probably agree that the extreme compartmentalization of too many forums has not attracted a lot of new participants. Most of them have never had much use. It's hard to complain about something I've been using for free for decades.

How am I hiding behind an alias? My name is Tiffany and I live in Opp, AL. It's right there on every one of my posts. I think most of my posts are shadow banned but I try to share anecdotes when I have one I think is relevant to someone's questions, in case they can see my reply.

If anyone wants to use FB, more power to 'em. It's just not for me. I never deleted my profile, just quit logging in a few yrs ago. Mostly because of the tiny writing, and people would say they had communicated with me on there but I didn't even see it. I don't have hours per day to scroll through people's memes and cat pics. Similar to how I never setup voice mail on my phone. You can't just leave messages, and "steal" my time that way. And as others said above, I don't want to participate in my own surveillance. And I don't want to be part of an entity that censors people. The fact that so many people aren't bothered by that is shocking.

Mostly because of the tiny writing

Not that this fact by itself is going to make you suddenly like Facebook but you are aware that you can enlarge (and shrink) font sizes of everything you look at using your keyboard or your mouse, right? Also in Windows (and presumably MAC) there are screen settings you can select that are designed to make everything more visible to those with eyesight limitations.

Yes, I'm aware. That works for some things. Thank you very much.

RP, just remember our zones are a lot different than yours. I can grow plants you haven't a chance of over-wintering in your cooler summers (unless that is changing now :)) and likewise, you can grow things that simply melt over here.

" RP, just remember our zones are a lot different than yours. "

I don't believe this is true :-) The UK hardiness zones are based on the same principles as those in the US......the minimum average winter temperature based over a period of time. So as in the US, all they measure is amount of winter cold a plant is able to tolerate. The RHS zone rating is similar although using a different coding or rating system. Again, all they measure is winter cold tolerance. Just as here in the US, neither factor in summer heat or humidity, length of growing season, rainfall patterns or all the other issues that can affect plant viability.

What dbarron was saying is that the zones are different, not by definition, but by temperarures. A zone 9 in the UK is very different from a zone 9 in coastal CA.

" A zone 9 in the UK is very different from a zone 9 in coastal CA. "

Really? Exactly how is it different? Comparing RP's location with that of the Bay area, mean summer and winter temperatures are almost the same; rainfall totals also very similar, if not necessarily following a similar monthly pattern. So what are the differences you are referring to?

And to reiterate what has previously been stated, other than the Pacific Northwest and parts of coastal California, there really isn't anywhere else in the US that has a climate similar to that of the UK and will support the same very wide spectrum of plants. I doubt anywhere east of the Cascades or the North Coast mountain ranges of California would qualify.

Because a lot of plants that I can winter over because of increased sugar production from our much higher temperatures and greater sunlight, will not produce enough reserves to overwinter there.

@dbarron, I'd be interested in knowing specifically what plants would behave like you describe, remembering that the topic is pertaining primarily to herbaceous perennials (although I'd also be curious about other plant types as well).

There are a lot of zone hardy plants that won't survive in my location because of summer heat and drought. just saying Z8 or Z9 doesn't tell the full story. Some things will try to live but need more shade.

Cearbhail, well said. And the plant ID'ing was so silly. 47 people would say the same wrong thing and then everyone ignores the correct response.

RHS does not use the same numerical zoning system as USDA; the only numbers only hardiness zone mapping of Britain and Ireland I have seen on the web has been one using the USDA system. So in fact Zone 9 there is the same as Zone 9 here in the US, as previously stated. It should be noted that I am not talking about maps in nursery catalogs and other publications, where in the US at least it can be apparent that these are based on the USDA mapping but such may often not be stated. Otherwise Canada has its own hardiness zone system using numbers like with the USDA one but not lining up exactly. And there is also an American Horticultural Society Heat Zone system in existence. Which addresses the fact that different parts of the same USDA zones can have siginificant variation in summer hotness. With the only complete garden oriented regional mapping scheme I know of being the Sunset Climate Zones. With determinations made being based on the entire involved climates, rather than just cold or heat by themselves.

Danny, the sugar manufacturing theory sounds correct. My Ruellia humilis does so well, it's a weed. The Phemeranthus calycinum does well here in sandy soil, unfortuately it doesn't always winter over. It would be very interesting to hear how they perform in East Anglia, without hot summers and cold winters. Do you grow any fame flowers at all in nw Ark? You can also grow Ruellia pediculatus and Ruellia carolinensis there, besides humilis and strepens, which I can grow here. Phemeranthus calycinum is my only native FF. You can grow parviflorum and rugospermum. Have you tried any of them? At first I thought Texas plants would work in a more Mediteranean climate, but Texas does experience intense summer heat and winter cold snaps. There was that arctic vortex last winter that killed many things. RP, you are in East Anglia correct?

I am, Jay...and have just ripped open my packet of callirhoe- a measly 12 seeds from Chilterns, so I am suddenly flummoxed by the possibility of minimal germination. I love this plant yet there is not one single supplier in the entire UK apart from one teeny nursery which does not do mail order. I am going to grow talinum in a trough so will have the option of popping a cloche on but all sorts of succulents do pretty well here because the winter is as dry as every other season and drainage is rarely an issue.

I grow loads of annuals so I am not too bothered if a plant only lasts a season...but if it has taken meseveral years and THEN carks, I get seriously p*ssed.

Have also got a couple more penstemons spectabilis, cobaea and grandiflora, a couple of delphs - nudicaule and semi-barbatum, eritrichium canum, linum stricta and linum capitatum (I love flax and never miss sowing linum rubrum)...O yeah, a heap of lewisias. Another 20odd orders to come from Special Plants (but an awaiting my birthday voucher) and haven't even seen the HPS seed list (where I can order up to 40(!) packets of seed. I am definitely over-excited.

I actually have a PLAN.

I really never meant to get into some zone comparison thing - just wanted to chat with people who mostly grew their plants from seed (because more or less penniless so it's the only way if you want a lot of plants (and I do cos I want to sell some) - and let me tell you - it isn't the 'growing from seed' forum on here which is dead. Winter sowing is a bit specific and anyway, I do most of my sowing now.

I did come across some old posts about callirhoe (this will not be the first time I have attempted to get this to grow) so will go and have a read of the thread. It is, so far, my most desired plant this year.

Sheesh, re-reading this rambling rubbish - grammar and punctuation gone to the dogs - yep, I am definitely over-excited. Apols.

Im sorry if my comments about gw offended anyone. They were broad, generalized,opinionated statements. I'm an Asclepiadoideae nerd, and I was depressed about the milkweed forum here. Everyone had abandoned that forum, and I desperately wanted fellowship with likeminded milkweed nerds who shared my passion. My friends, Danny, Steven, Joe and Mark suggested that I come to fb where there were more likeminded people. I went there and wasn't happy at first. I left fb for a while, and decided to give fb another try. When I was there the first time I never reached out to anyone or applied myself. Everything was

different the second time. After my friend Mark left here, he discovered a new species of Asarum in North Carolina. Over at fb he had access to the botanists and taxonomists that could assist him with getting this new species studied and recorded. Tiffany, there are some really bad plant ID groups there, but also a couple very good groups. One group Had Epipremnum aurea posted and there were about 200 replies saying Pothos, Devil's Ivy, etc.

, all just common names. That drove me crazy. There are a couple very good ID groups run by Daniel Truong and UK plantsman John Stuart. I still enjoy this sight very much, or else I wouldn't be here. ✌️ No reason I can't do both sites!

Jay, we have I think 3 species of Fame flower in Arkansas. I'm too wet for them, but I do go in haibtat where I see thousands of the tiny jewels and marvel at the very short period of bloom ( a couple of hours at best), shallow dry soils need apply.

My point basically being, it's not simple. I agree with signal to noise ratios.

Ah sorry, not linum strictum, but linum rigidum (again). Gotta do dinner - back later for more foruming. I missed this place.

Danny, I can block out the noise, no problem. Just like with tv and radio commercials. I figured your property was too wet for Phemeranthus. You must be growing some Ruellia species yes? We have Linum sulcatum up here, which grows in sand prairies. I still haven't figured out how to germinate them, and I've tried numerous ways. Polygala same problem.

I kinda thought that some plants actually needed more than just specific climate indicators, such as heat, light, water...and actually required soil-specific triggers to break dormancy - nematodes, bacterial or fungal stuff, mycorrhizal help - I dunno, just wildly speculating.. Anyway, I don't mind having numerous go-rounds with recalcitrant seeds if I have a ready access to (plenty of) them but if I have to pay £££ for tiny packets, I tend not to try more than a couple of times.

Here's another thing too, Jay. I am not altogether sure if I want to be talking to experts cos I am a clueless amateur with dodgy plant ethics I like to think I am growing things for wildlife and so on but mostly, I am a demanding, spoilt toddler who just wants to grow anything which I like the look of...and am not a serious person. Easily intimidated, I often can't remember the correct nomenclature, have iffy spelling, terrible memory, poor impulse control and attention challenged. I suspect I would get on people's nerves (I am sure I do on here as well) but at least I feel at home here.

I fell under the influence of a couple of GWers from Texas and Oklahoma and came across plants I had never heard of (anisacanthus wrightii and palafoxa for example)...no other reason for wanting to grow them apart from curiosity, DBarron...but I certainly have not come across them in the UK...which probably should tell me something but...I do like to grow different and interesting plants which are new to me...even with no reason other than just because...

Yes, how many times have I failed to germinate Impatiens pallida, I have some in the fridge now (started three days ago)...this time I'm trying cold...warm..cold (recommendation of the supplier, Prairie Moon). I was going to start with a warm 6 week period..but read their instructions with they made clear was ? *lol* Will these work or will I have have to do an additional warm....cold stratification. All this trouble for an annual.

I kinda have your attitude. I like to grow from seed, so that I have enough spares to try different locations and see what works (hopefully). I've learned that hellebores don't like wet but they hate dry (under trees) even more. It's always learning...gardening that is.

Yes, Jay have two native Ruellia species and they take over the yard (mowed areas too)...but can't overwinter brittoniana to save my soul.

Edit (since I just saw a previous post?):

Callirhoe, which species? I have two out of our three natives. It's one of my favorite genera. I grew some involucrata (because everyone needs more hot magenta) from seed last year. I'll repeat advise I got (after no germination in six months), just wait for it..give it at least two years before you trash the flat. I think my germination didn't start till June and if not for that advise I would have trashed the pot, since it had been since early December. I did only get six plants from about 40-50 seeds, though he also said irregular germination in flushes, so if I had waited I might have gotten more...but I put them into the ground earlier this week (drought this summer, didn't want to plant till we were getting rains).

I should'nt have suggested another site RP. As long as you are happy, stay here. Ive been at both sites for years, and it bother's me to hear people who have never been there or were there only briefly, talk like they're experts about it, and bad mouth it. After some smoke I was thinking about what you call noise. The entire format is intense, and people with walls can easily become self absorbed, thinking they must be posting memes and their 'profound' thoughts 24/7. And the barage of images, resulting in a roler coaster ride of extreme emotions. I can only handle it in limited doses, I refuse to become an algorythim. I took a 4 month sabatical from it last winter. It's still worth putting up with though, when I weigh in all the amazing things that I get out of it!! Forgive my spelling. I have to disable my autocorrect before I can comment here. Yeah, I suspect my local native milkworts have a specific symbiosis with a fungal or bacterial agent, neccasary* for germination, and quite possibly the Linum sulcatum too. I'm not a stuffy snob about nonmenclature. As long as I know what you're taking about. It's fun to mix names, and get laughs over some of them. You never mentioned the species of Ruellia, either of you? I noticed the Ruellia humilis at the prairie grew upright, mine is prostrate. I found out there are 6 different varieties of humilis. I grow Callihoe involucrata and bushii. I would try the others, but there is absolutely no more room to put them. The bushii does much better than the involucrata. There is vollunteer bushii growing on the compost heap, and I had to sheer back my bushii this year because it was getting too rambunctious and thugging it's neighbours. I grow from seed because it's the only way I can have the uncommon plants I want, and agree that I can experiment with placement. I've had no germination on a few Apiaceae species, Thaspium, Polytaenia, Periditeria, Taenidia. 2 crops of Cnidium monnieri. I had trouble germinating it, and now it's self sowing. They may all have recalcitrant seeds, and unfortunately Prairie Moon Nursery doesn't pack seeds in water. I had trouble germinating Impatiens pallida. I finally had 2 plants germinate outside, from seeds I scattered. My capensis starts out strong with the spring rains, but most, or all of them are culled by our summer droughts. I'm hoping pallida handles the dry conditions better. I plant many things on a whim, and then later on get perplexed about how to edit them. I've been growing Palafoxia callosa for a couple years, and it loves dry soil, and it's getting weedy. I'm trying to grow a few other plants with similar thin leaves, in the same sandy bed, and the Palafoxia makes it hard to tell them all apart. The orange Oleander Aphids did me a favor and I finally was able to tell which ones were the milkweeds. Anybody grow Cowpen Daisies? A lot of nice flowers and graminoids for prairie posies.

Yes, I grew Cowpen daisies from seed I got off a poster on here (She had a couple of name changes, but I knew here as Janet, an artist who painted icons). I had them at my wood and failed to collect seeds in time, but yeah, I enjoyed verbesina quite a lot. May have another go-round because Chiltern seeds stock them (I liked the foliage too).

Milkweeds - well I have grown syriacus and currently have some incarnata seeds I liberated from some stately home gardens. I always hesitate though because I doubt they would enjoy my thinnish, dry soil. My favourite genera has been th apiaceae for years now. I never seem to get tired of their billowy grace and they sit well in the messy plant communities scattered around my plot. I am also enamoured of tulips...although I tend to swerve the larger hybrids, staying with the smaller wildlings which really seem to enjoy the baking dryness of an east anglian summer, returning faithfully, year on year, even in grass.

Ah yes, the famous whim and caprice method of gardening. I always grow too many plants and have real issues with chucking the spares in the compost because I have filled my offspring's gardens, my customers and even spare bits of public land near where I live. This year, I am planning a little plant stall to sell the spares since I am basically retired from pro-gardening (apart from one large rectory garden I have been working in for a few years)

I have ruellia humilis on the way and, in desperation, I have also ordered 100 expensive 'Gold Nugget' callirhoe involucrata seeds from Jellito...as supposedly, the gold nugget seeds are treated to accelerate germination. We shall see as I now have a dozen ordinary seeds from Chiltern and another 100 treated seeds on the way from Jellito (who usually have very good germination rates for me, although they are not cheap).

I am impatient and a bit disorganised..The worst thing I do is to lose my labels and end up with loads of old pots sitting around with no idea what is in them. I usually tip them back into my potting mix...and am surprised to find odd seedlings appearing years later.

Lifelong learning, dbarron - no question, that's one of the best things about gardening for sure.

It is fun to want plants that you see, but I've learned that if they are hard to find, they are probably not suited to my area. It's rare for plant info to include a warning like "can't tolerate warm humid nights" or "doesn't handle dew well," but I've discovered there are such, especially among cute little succulents. Anything that even mentions "alpine" will not be able to handle the heat & O2 levels at my location. I know to interpret "part sun" as "no direct midday sun," and even "full sun" plants can do better without literal all day sun.

Trying to create a perennial garden from seeds has been, for me, a romantic notion but in practice, has never conformed to imagination. Plants that start from seeds drop a lot of seeds, which is great if you want solid patches of things. As a new gardener, you hear that and think, "Yeah, I want patches! Look at my empty spaces!" But after you've realized one spring that you have 1,729 seedlings around your beloved patch of 49 plants, you can change your mind about some plants, and/or sometimes give a single plant an area you originally thought would have a mix of different plants.

Sprouting a seed and having a plant thrive are totally different things. I don't know if anybody has done it, but I would not personally automatically translate trouble with seeds or seedlings into meaning that that plant can't grow well at my location.

A garden is never done, and weather/nature will participate to the good and the bad, so don't be too rigid about expectations unless you have the kind of budget where you buy a whole instant landscape.

When I bring plants home, it is to see if they like it, not to knock myself out by providing some special care. If I feel like I am letting the plants decide, it feels more optimistic, and is definitely more fun when they do thrive. The benchmark can't be either every plant I bring home thrives or I'm failing at gardening. That's way too high. I can't say what anyone else would enjoy but I have more fun when I consider the whole thing an experiment, and myself an observer, vs. "in charge." I can add or remove plants, but they have to grow themselves if they want to.

I am also very impulsive about this, especially since I've never before tried a lot of the plants that I buy in this location, having started gardening here only about 15 yrs ago. I'm sure it looks like a work in progress because it is. Once I've collected enough "keepers" so that the spaces are filled, there will need to be some re-arranging & moving of the little fru-fru plants away from the bigger things that have grown over and around them. All part of the fun to me.

There's a reason some plants are so ubiquitous, like marigolds and Zinnias. The seeds sprout readily and quickly reach blooming stage. Not picky about weather as long as it's above freezing, not picky about needing too much rain, so cute and pleasant to have around. I've never seen anyone ask, "How do I get rid of these Zinnia or marigold sprouts?"

O I think growing from seed is a budget thing - especially living near a decent botanical garden with systematic beds and the like where I loiter around with little envelopes...although with collecting or saving seed, there is probably a romantic correlation with primitive hunting/gathering (in my mind). The germination rates are always tons better with fresh seed...and if it is free, well, what's not to like?

For sure, there are plants which seed around like maniacs but for various reasons, this doesn't bother me much since gardening on a public allotment means every single spare inch of soil will always be filled with something, so hoeing off a patch of limnanthes or nasturtium isn't that different from the perpetual clearing of fat hen or wild oats. Quite a few plants I have carefully raised from seed have been very ungenerous with seedlings too - pretty much any which have corms, bulbs or tubers, then another lot take a few years to get going so never survive the first round of weeding

I absolutely agree that it would be quite disappointing if I had to rely solely on seed-sown plants - this is an uncertain way to plan a garden and I do indeed buy plants from nurseries and mail order...because I want specific cultivars (fruit trees and bushes) or particular varieties, or sterile long blooming ones, or just a single specimen. And I want it now, not in 4 years (when any original plans have long since been abandoned or forgotten.

Seed sowing is a supplemental way of getting a lot of diversity cheaply, especially annuals and biennials, which I use a lot because bored and attention challenged. And if I do want groups of plants (such as a swathe of Icelandic poppies, or repetitions), I really struggle buying multiples of the same plant, so seed is a good way of dealing with numbers.

There are a lot of plants which will not do well in my climate, with my soil, space and so on...but there are 1000s of them which will...and I want to grow as many as I can. It seems a bit self-indulgent but not really as bad as buying fast fashion or a new model Iphone every year, so I don't let myself feel too puritannical about it...usually

I do love all the fiddling about as well.

And now I have promised myself a little plant stall, the seed ordering floodgates are truly opened at present (last year, I bought none, only what I collected myself).

If it sounded like I was against seeds, I'm not. My preference is propagation with most things. To buy 1 and make 62 new ones that way.

It's interesting to read about other people's garden escapades that are so different. I did not realize the discussion was about gardening @ an allotment. That's not a thing where I am and I have no idea how that works or what people do with them. Is there water?

Gardening is something I do for amusement, to benefit the butterflies and hummingbirds, to reduce the amount of mowed area, and eventually, to landscape around our home in a way that makes maintenance easier with every choice so when we get too old to do the heavy stuff, there will rarely be any heavy stuff to do and plenty of pretty plants to enjoy.