snakeoil, I have been reaading some about L.H. Bailey. I am confused about what he is trying to say. I have 4 of his books given to me by my 83 yo father-in-law. The date of one of the books is 1917, the pages are in good shape but yellowed/brown some. this is the nineteenth edition, which I find amazing for that time period. The only problem I have is the innocence of chemical applications, tillage and its long term usage unknown. He does seem to have a great influence on the early farmers of this country, which I feel sad that it was not more organic minded instead of the ease of using so many chemicals. His information is very detailed and lenghty in every phase of farming. I can see show he was such a strong influence for chemical usage and would show favor with chemical companies who saw a market with his philosophies. However, he does talk about the use of organic methods, but not separate from using chemicals. Like I said his methods were innocent at the time of understanding his methods which I believe were just plain ignorant. For example: in a section on weeds "For perennials which reproduce both from seed and from surface runners or perennialunderground roots or stems, seed production must be prevented and the underground part must be killed.Seed production may be prevented by mowing when the first flower bud appear. The best methods for killing the roots or rootstocks vary considerably according to the soil, climate, character of the differetn weeds, and the size of the patch or the quanitity to be killed. In general, however, the following principles apply:- 1. The roots, rootstocks,bulbs, and the like may be dug up and removed, a remedy that can be practically applied in small areas. 2. Salt, coal oil, or strong acid applied so as to come in contact with the freshly cut roots or rootstocks destroys them for some distance from the point of contact. Crude sulfuric acid is probably the most effective of comparatively inexpensive materials that can be used for this purpose, but its strong corrosive properties render itdangerous to handle. Carbolic acid is less corrosive, and nearly as effective. Arsenite of soda and arsenate of soda, dangerous poisons, are effective, particularly the former. applied as a spray on the growing weeds. Fuel-distillate, a petroleum product, is very promising. 3. Roots may be starved to death by preventing any development of green leaves or other parts above ground. This may be effected by building straw stacks ocer small patches, by persistent, through cultivation in fields, by the use of the hoe or spud in waste places, and by salting the plants and turning on sheep in permanet pastures. 4. The plants may usaully be smothered by dense sod-forming grasses or by a crop like HEMP, buckwheat, clover, cowpeas, or millet that will exclude light. 5. Most roots are readily destroyed by exposing them in the direct action of the sun during the summer drought, or to the direct action of the frost in winter. In this way plowing, for example, becomes effective. 6. Proper crop rotation is one of the best means of eradication. The usefulness of chemicals as weed-killers is largely limited to the following cases (Jones):- 1. When an especially obnoxious weed, as poison ivy, occurs on a limited locality and is to be destroyed regarless of consequences to soil or neighboring plants. 2. When the aim is to render the soil permanently sterile, as in roadways, tennis courts, and the like. 3. When the weed plant, as orange hawkweed and mustard, in more sensitive than the associated useful plants to the actions of some herbicide. then there is a list of chemicals to use: Salt (sodium chloride) Blue nitriol ( copper sulfate) Copper sulfate solution Iron sulfide (copperas) Kerosene- weak in efficiency, more costly carbolic acid- cheap, quickest and most valuable herbicide. it is not equal to the arsenical poisons for penetrating the soil, or lasting effects. sulfuric acid (oil of vitriol) This is destructive to everything it touches caustic soda- will create a sterile soil that will take time to leach away. Arseical compounds- most effective known. These form the basis of all , or nearly all, of the variuos propriety "herbicides" or "weed-killers"...An important charateristic of those arseniacal poisons is that they ENDURE FOR A LONG TIME AND DO NOT READILY WASH OR LEACH AWAY. " The section on insecticides and others are very toxic as well. I can see how L.H. Bailey was probably the most respected and appreciated writer by the chemical corporations. And how he has caused the greatest nightmare for folks trying to sustain organic methods and for the health of many growers and farmers.

Poopie diapers have gotta happen more often than 800 times. Crying enough to get mom or dad out of bed during the night.

Hi Raven, I've done that a couple of times, and it made no difference. And all of a sudden today, it decided to work as it should. This happened a couple of months ago....I couldn't post for days, and then one day I could.

...just to say... part 2 of this series has just been shown here... it may be on youtube very shortly... I'm sure someone will put it up, they usually do.. ..it's mostly about early days of Independence gardens... visiting Monticello.. but I loved the segment on Charleston.. the Magnolia gardens and others there... then he went to Miami to Vizcaya and New Orleans... ..made me laugh... lady in Charleston told Monty her roses are 'annuals'... he said he hadn't heard that term used for roses before.... well, he better come see me - please keep up Monty, I've been doing it for years..... youtube link