What input do you want? You have a rough layout from your architect, now you need a professional kitchen designer to turn it into a kitchen plan and help you select cabinets and finishes. Looks like it will be a great house when complete.

Basically I am just making sure this general layout looks ok? Knocking down the 2 walls and moving the doorway to the basement makes sense to me, the pantry looks like it will be a decent size. I can’t think of alternatives and I just want to make sure there isn’t something obvious we should do differently with the space :) Houzzers can be good at noticing mistakes or alternatives I hadn’t thought of but this seems straightforward with the space that we have to work with. Thank you!! We certainly hope so!!

not certain I'd be so keen to shrink the dining zone for two stool net gain. I might shift the entrance to pantry to left...place stove on back wall left of sink and move peninsula/stools over to regain the feet you've lost in dining zone seems like minor compromises to have a good dining spot long term. realistically you could remove the door to the pantry because it's an alcove/cockpit set up regardless and it will function just as well without door and then you can move stove down a bit more on that back wall. this shows a different set up for your wish and would allow the back exterior wall maximum use so the peninsula can be shifted over.

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You do not give a designer a plan and architects are in my expereince really bad KDs get an independant KD and let them design a kitchen that works for you BTW I hate walk in pantries they are often not functional and take up a huge amount of space I love true pullout pantries so much storage all reachable IMO a no brainer . I could help more if I could read the measurements on your drawing so maybe just post a to scale plan no cabinets or appliances but all measurments clearly marked all windoes doorways and where the doorways lead and name all the surrounding space s

Why are you building 2 fully new stairways (1 to basement, 1 to upstairs) just to move the basement door? What does opening up the stair wall to the Mudroom hall accomplish? Can that huge amount of money for the stairs and the large beam (which may interfere with the stair headroom anyway) be used in the Kitchen, to relocate windows, or to open up the exterior walls with more windows or outdoor living access?

@3onthetree we are pretty sure that we are not going to change one of the stairs that you mention. It was an idea she came up with but like you said, it is alot of money without much payback. The stairway to upstairs is enclosed-- we had asked her if there was a way to make it feel more spacious because the stairs do have to be replaced. They are in very bad shape and our contractor said they have to just completely gut them and redo them. We are planning to do that as phase 1.5 next year (wanted to do sooner but our contractor is booked up). But we are not going to move the location of them-- hope that makes sense. The basement stairs -- I should show you a picture -- they have to be replaced as well and right now how steep they are isnt safe so they actually need that extra room to make them less steep.

What is the distance between the peninsula and the opposite counter? It looks too tight. If you can still make the peninsula fit, you should definitely have the edge of the counter aligned with the opposite side. It sticks into the dining area too far right now.

The first pic is the pic to upstairs and the second is the pic of the stairs to the basement. We pulled up carpet and tiles off hard wood floors throughout the house and saw wood underneath the carpet on the stairs. Then we pulled it up they looked like that! But they are all cracked as you can see.

@lmckuin I just measured and I think 5 feet 2 inches is the max we could do for the peninsula and still have 3 feet entryway. I think she has it as 5 feet 6 inches. I agree about moving it up to not encroach on dining and it will only be around a foot so not a big deal.

this is interesting.....use of exterior wall without removing the 2nd window....fridge and range ........bring sink onto island..if its just 2 stools you should be able to do that ..maybe 3.....why do you have no windows in

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dining zone..as mentionned a relationship w exterior of property w a french door or at least put in wndows. clear your stair wall but you can still have your pantry if desire.

@herbflavor I am not sure why she doesnt have windows in the dining zone in her drawing but they are there and very pretty original casement windows!! I tried to put them in the other drawing where I put the dimensions more fully.

I would really think about whether an un-enclosed pantry area would make more sense--you could use pullouts or shelves for small appliances or put them behind cabinet doors. It's not a huge space and I don't know if it is realistic to think that you are going to want to stand in the doorway making coffee or stowing dirty dishes there (I think you may be envisioning a larger space than you will have in reality). Opening up the doorway would give you more room to maneuver.

Also, if you entertain a lot, I would preserve space in the dining area by moving the peninsula in.

And Just to add — the plan for the pantry was a pocket door — we have pocket doors everywhere. Perhaps a double pocket door. The pantry is close to 45 square feet. My daughter's closet is actually almost exactly the size the pantry and she has 13 inch deep closet cabinets so it gives me a good feel for the size of the space, and I guess I am used to our cramped kitchen that isnt much bigger than a pantry haha but it feels ok. Our current kitchen is about 100 square feet. Here is an inspo pic that seemed like it would be close to the size I am envisioning for the pantry (not necessarily how I would want the pantry set up but I like the open shelving and having a countertop). I do also adore devol's pantry cabinets, however, and it seems like they have smart storage.

I guess I don’t love open concept and I would prefer to have doors from the kitchen to the dining room like it was originally. But I know that a peninsula is probably a good thing if we can’t have an island with our kids. I am one of those cooks who doesn’t want anyone else in the kitchen with her and hates for guests to see a bunch of dirty pots and pans while eating dinner. The doored pantry allows me to put the things that I would prefer to be hidden to guests or I can set up myself or someone else to do food prep and not drive me crazy in the kitchen haha. And The closer I look at her drawing and that I am more envisioning this as an extension of the kitchen but able to be closed off, it really isn’t eating that much space to me. But I am def open to suggestions and appreciate them!!

Will the pantry also be where you store a vacuum, broom, cleaning products, etc.? If you envision using the pantry for active food prep, it might be nice to separate those functions.

Circonium, no we store the vacuum and mops in our linen closet. Yeah that’s where I think a designer can help me iron out how best to use the spaces with how I like to function. I haven’t decided 100% on the pantry yet but I am envisioning at least a small sink, place for coffee machines, and my dump site for dirty dishes when guests are over. Then some food storage. I am guessing I wouldn’t necessarily use it everyday as a prep spot but more for when we have those guests who want to help and they can peel potatoes in there or something like that and they won’t be in my hair :) . I do think I would use it for coffee everyday.

Also, I know this is antithetical to the idea of a pantry as a place for cool, dry food storage, but if you are going to use it more as a tiny mini-kitchen, I would consider whether there's a way to have a window. Even if you leave the pocket doors open most of the time, it doesn't look like you'll get much natural light (the plan makes it look like you are losing a window in the kitchen, so you'll just have the one over the sink?).

Circonium, I agree and I do want to incorporate more windows — we are losing one :( and will only have one in the kitchen :(. I know it seems kind of funny to want this closed off space with the pantry, but I should also add my husband is the complete opposite of me and he loves to have a bunch of people in the kitchen so I am trying to give myself a space where I could work and not be too congested because it still won’t be a “huge” kitchen. We have a lot of family members who very kindly like to help out at gatherings. He can be the one entertaining at one end of the kitchen with the peninsula at the stove, and I can do other work in the pantry and the other end of the kitchen :) I need a designer to help me figure out how to make a kitchen work for opposite personalities, haha.

Instead of a completely enclosed pantry, perhaps a sort of hidden nook area behind the short wall return on the southern side of the pantry near the door. Eliminate the pantry wall on the north wall and put a window there. You could still do shelving on the west wall and south wall, but that could be an area hidden from view from the rest of the kitchen and the dining area. So, instead of a separate room, you turn that pantry area into a work nook/coffee bar, etc. And place pantry cabinets into the wall where the fridge is located, perhaps flanking it. I would double up the window over your sink, too.

Ptreckel — love your ideas!! Yes, I am less worried about food storage in the “pantry” than being able to have a coffee/work area and being able to sort of disperse where work can be done if we are hosting. I can easily put pantry cabinets out in the kitchen. We are used to such a small footprint in our current kitchen but I still feel like I have everything I need in there. I won’t even know what to do with the extra space haha. And we sometimes host 30 people with our current kitchen! I also love the windows!

Sounds like your husband’s entertaining side of the kitchen should NOT include the stove! Can you enlarge the kitchen window to the right, center the sink under it, and put the stove on the left?
I also think you should limit the number of activities that the pantry is expected to perform. The counter by the refrigerator is begging for a beverage/snack bar, ideally with small sink. Microwave should also be by the fridge. Imagine guests helping themselves while you complete your work at the other end of the kitchen.

(That’s your kitchen work triangle that nobody should have a reason to enter 😉 Dishes should be stored in/above the peninsula, close to dining)

Or this option, same setup by the fridge as suggested above

Would it be possible/feasible to leave the second window and enlarge the window over the sink? That would allow you to move the sink to the left, leaving more space for the range and more space for the peninsula. You need only 48" for two seats, so a 60" peninsula would ease the pinch point.

you have several options. while at it...I would think about this seating instead for your pantry area at the left end....place the pocket door alcove style pantry next to fridge at full depth of fridge or a bit more.... you can even have 2 feet of counter next to fridge and still 10 ft of length to create the pantry w capability to close it off.....w pocket doorsl....eliiminate

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peninsula giving you a nice long wall [20-21 ft] for sink and stove and no corners w pitch points or corner cabs. what I like about a banqueette at left side of space is it is where people come thru from garage and family room and you can seat more and it has more appeal for adults or kids . as well..w style features it can be made more in keeping w your homes features. the mini peninsula has drawbacks .

@emilyam819 yep, the range would likely need to be moved. Thank you for both these ideas of layouts!!

@herbflavor the banquet idea is intriguing and I do like those but couldnt think of a way to do it. Heidi Callier often has them in her kitchens and in her 1928 tudor. I attached a pic. I am not neccesarily attached to the peninsula but just wanted somewhere for kids to sit in the kitchen while i cook. I could even perhaps put pocket doors between the dining room and kitchen and eliminate one of my needs from the pantry which was to hide the mess at dinner. Thank you!! This is giving me alot of ideas.

@mama goose_gw zn6OH the other window is a large window that goes down where cabinets would be but it could perhaps be made into a smaller window. I would like to have at least a couple windows in the space for sure.

I really like your basic new plan. I love walk in pantries. Pocket doors, so practical. The new orientation of the staircase ... do I understand that as you walk in the front door you see a generously wide step leading to upstairs -- great!

My sis remodeled her kitchen to include a peninsula in place of what had been a solid wall. What I really like about the way they did it was they used a two-level peninsula. Bar height in the dining room, dropping about six inches to regular counter height in the kitchen. This gives you a space to conceal dirty dishes from your guests without being obvious about it! They also got great storage -- used standard cabinets under the kitchen side, and tall cabinets under the bar side.

Anything can be tweaked but I think your designer did a great job.

@nickel_kg do you have a walk-in pantry and if so what do you like about it? I have never had one but have always thought it seems nice, but it seems like people have conflicting opinions about them like banquet seating and peninsulas :). The hiding of dishes with multiple levels of countertop is a good idea! Yes, I do like what the architect came up with the stairs and seeing them from the front door. It makes them feel more open and not so cramped and adds a little grandeur. We will have to see how much that costs in comparison to them just redoing what we currently have because it is one thing we decided to let go of if too pricey. We are planning to tackle the stairs next with a couple other smaller projects before doing the kitchen, and I think our contractor is booked up until 2024 anyways (so wild!!) so we have some time to figure the kitchen out.I had no idea what I was really getting into when we started all this, but now i know spending a lot of time planning and hearing different opinions is good!

I have been tweaking this. I could get rid of the walk in pantry. Place the banquette and a table in the north area of where the pantry was planned and add a window on that north wall.l by the seating. We don’t need a ton of seating— just enough for family of 4. Have 5 feet of banquette seating on that north wall and then 5 feet on the west wall and 2 feet deep (or perhaps addin a couple chairs). The second picture is kind of what I’m thinking of for banquet seating. I know not everyone likes banquet but it does fit with my style home and I think I like it better than a peninsula esp for my kiddos. Then the southern wall of the pantry could be taken out and I could perhaps have a beverage station along the rest of that west wall. I realize this could cause congestion in an entryway; however, there will be about a 6 foot entry way in that area (if there is a 2 foot deep countertop and cabinet for beverage station). So the beverage station could be around 2 feet deep and would be around 4 feet 9 inches wide. I could perhaps even have a small sink there and mini fridge below. Then in the third pic—I could have an “appliance garage” to fulfill my husbands wish of hiding appliances (it’s a pull down backsplash of sorts). Then people could congregate in this area with the banquet and beverages and I could work on the other end of the kitchen. We could take out the peninsula and have a pocket door to enter the dining room. Maybe not quite there but I like at least having a new way to think about the space!

This is a bad kitchen design. Start from scratch and get a professional kitchen designers help.

Walkin pantries generally work better with larger kitchens. It isn't about what you like, it's about weighing what you like with what works best for your space. Everyone can argue why they think one thing is better than another, but when they don't know the kitchen design rules and have little experience, their opinions are not meaningful because they can't weigh the issues correctly.

What I love about an enclosed pantry ... My house was built in 1940, with the typical tiny kitchen of the times. Before we moved in, we expanded the kitchen into the equally tiny breakfast nook but space was still precious. So, we remodeled our enclosed 20x6 porch -- into a 14x6 pantry and 6x6 mudroom. What I love about my walk in pantry ... First, I store almost all our food there instead of in the kitchen. It's all in plain site, arranged in logical order on sturdy shelves that run the whole 14 foot. (such as, rice cooker is stored next to the rice. Coffee filters, coffee beans, and travel mugs all on one shelf. Potatoes and onions on a low shelf that stays cool. Canned good in one area, condiments in another, pasta near the pasta sauce, baking goods on one end.) When I'm wondering what to fix for a meal, I go there and see what we have. When I make a shopping list, I go there and see what we need. Cookware that isn't used every day, vacuum, broom, and cookbooks also live in the pantry. This frees up precious kitchen cabinet space for dishes, glasses, pots & pans, tupperware, spices, and daily use items -- all convenient for dishwashing and storing leftovers. The pantry has two standard-size windows and plenty of electric outlets, but don't intend to cook in there. We achieved all that storage while still being true to the character of the house.

So, I strongly vote for separate pantry -- but I'm reading all the good ideas in your thread and you've got lots to think about. Enjoy the process! :-)

Oh, one other idea -- if you have a long run of cabinets, such as the 12 feet next to the fridge, incorporate some glass doors in the uppers. That will add visual interest.

@Ed Sossich at Main Line Kitchen Design, I don't disagree, but we have had issues with "pros" before, and most (probably 99%) of people don't know (myself included) what is wrong with a design or if they have a "good" designer. I like to have a baseline knowledge so that when i go to a designer I can understand why they are making the suggestions they are making. It could perhaps be my personality (my career is a researcher) but I guess I don't blindly trust that even if a designer is certified, highly recommended, etc that they aren't going to give me a garbage design. I think this is why many people turn to Houzz :) For instance, I don't want to keep insisting on a walk-in pantry to a designer and waste both of our time if it isn't the right thing for my kitchen. I like that I at least have this knowledge now that perhaps the things I thought I wanted aren't the things I wanted and I can more clearly articulate what it is I want. I understand that there are basic kitchen design rules to be followed but let's face it, tons of people don't do their job the way they are supposed to. I have already gained lots of knowledge from this thread :)

dont forget you can wrap mudroom walls and get some overflow storage there. not sure if you have all that calculated but it isnt a small spot. there is a vestibule /hall coming in from mudroom w a wall.....that can be put to use w shallow open shelves. my mom loved her shallow shelves...she had hinged doors but nothing gets stuck in the backand she could always see what she needed to replenish. 1st pic: another rendition of use of wall next to fridge...2nd pic: tuck onto that wall coming from mudroom..dont discount this sort of thing...

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Do you have a powder room on your first floor? It would be nice to incorporate one if you don't - we redid our kitchen in our 100+ colonial and adding that was a priority for us as we entertain a lot like you do

@herbflavor thank you!! Those are great ideas.

In order to make some good layout decisions, a better representation of existing should be fully known and considered. You and your architect may have a handle on this, but not so far in this thread to receive encompassing advice.

As one example, the bathroom and bedroom is not shown completely. Maybe that bedroom reduces in size to allow an office/convertible Guest Room and the Mudroom takes part of it, giving more space next to the Pantry and more options.

As another example, fenestration should be accurate. In one picture, I see the street and a driveway through the window. I think that is on the skinny side of house, and looking at the garage door, not sure but that would be a neighbor's driveway which means you have no backyard from the Kitchen. So whether the Kitchen wall faces a street, side, or backyard, opening up windows or doors should consider the site.

Yet another example, a Tudor style house from 1930s may have plaster cove ceilings and/or arched openings. So opening up the Kitchen completely (if not done respectfully) or the stair to the "back hall Mudroom entry," may clash with the "coziness" and compartmentalization concept of the existing house.

@3onthetree I dont really have a way to make a better representation other than the one I tried to edit above. But we don't have a backyard (pretty common in my neighborhood but we probably have 5 parks in a 1 mile radius and my kids can walk to school a block away so compromises :). We live in a city on a very small lot. Yes the kitchen oversees the neighbor's driveway, and there is no way to expand. We already did all the expansion we could with a garage and master suite over (we had a basement garage which we had been advised are bad for leaks etc and it wasnt useable as a garage so we recently filled that in and added the addition. We plan to finish the old garage as a basement after the kitchen. We could think about using that space in the bedroom, however. It is currently a playroom and already feels tight for that but it also wont be a playroom forever. The stairs currently go from the mudroom to upstairs. The architect proposed changing them so that they opened up to the front door rather than the mudroom because we are asked her if there was a way to make the stairs feel more spacious. We arent sure if we are going to do that however because as you can imagine, all of this is quickly adding up :) but the stairs do have to be replaced so we will be discussing with our contractor what is possible. We may request if there is a way to just maybe make the bottom step or two a little wider at the bottom to make it feel less tunnel like.

@nickel_kg oh boy, that sounds like us :) Space is precious here as well. We recently added a master suite so we are beginning to feel less cramped from a bathroom and closet perspective. We had a fairly large master bedroom (90s remodel) but tiny tiny master bathroom. And the master closet was decent sized but configured strangely. We ended up cutting up the old master bedroom for a hallway to connect to the new master and configured a room for my daughter. We split the old master closet into a linen closet and closet for my daughter. We will expand the old master bath into a kids bath and even have room for a small laundry room upstairs (that is how big this old master was haha!!!) Now we are thinking about the first floor and kitchen. Thanks for your perspective on a pantry -- that sounds amazing!!