" I do feel though (plz let me say this just once..) that they look like prison facilities." (edit: I caught ltonk before he or she made an edit. But that's a fine opinion to express if you're not used to the look, which, clearly most people in the US wouldn't be) Well, obviously, the British aristocracy would disagree with you. I don't see any razor wire fences, guard towers, concrete block batiments, etc. Are you sure you've actually seen a prison in your life? FWIW the first picture is the back of Castle Howard, here's a better overview: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/north_yorkshire/3624511.stm Of course the ones that actually _were_ castles were in a sense a reverse prison at one time. But I don't think that's the reasoning behind the way they may or may not be planted. I think it's more a mindset about what landscaping, gardening, and architecture all actually are, and mean. There's an utterly fascinating essay I have somewhere...unfortunately I've downloaded 1000s of pdf files of interesting articles and papers over the years, and it's hard to find one I need at a moment's notice - about the history of the concept of "culture" vis-a-vis horticulture. How "culture[d]" and "horticulture" are inexorably intertwined. Basic point is gardens always started out with a utilitarian goal in mind, but their cultural effect was recognized early on. (hanging gardens of babylon, etc) I think to really pull out occam's razor and slash this one open if I may mix metaphors, to put greens in front of one's castle would have implied one had nowhere else to grow one's food. Or something like that. Funny that you said thatthough, as, even though I'm a bit of an anglophile and certainly a fan of English gardening culture, I was reflecting recently that such stately homes, lovely as they are, reflect the "prison" that pre-20th century society was for those who were not in the gentry and aristocracy. You could only build such places without modern machinery and run them efficiently when labor was incredibly cheap and expendable. With the # of recent examples of these piles turning back into what they once were...i.e., fully private homes that don't even need the revenue of visitors, you have to worry whether the world hasn't turned back that way a wee bit. But let's not get into economic policy. That would make a real OT mess. The two I know about are Leonardslee, the Loder Estate - home of one of the most famous collections of rhododendrons in the world - and Torosay Castle, but I'm sure I've read of at least one other in the past few years. This post was edited by davidrt28 on Tue, Apr 30, 13 at 23:22

I am wondering if the original poster moved up here or no? I've lived in Canton and Potsdam. If you can't work for the colleges, it will be rough to get a decent job. Negative 40 in the winter at times but not cooler in the summer unless you get into higher elevation in the 'Dacks. Very inexpensive housing, good apartments are hard to find since all the college kids get them. Flat flat flat, unless you go up to Russell and all the little tiny towns at the foot of the mountains where it starts getting hillier. The Adirondacks have a nice feel to them but yes, there are very poor "North Country" people there. I don't know how "colonial" or "New Englandy" the towns are up there. Ogdensburg, Watertown and Massena are larger cities that have more things going on. I agree with previous posters that Corning/Painted Post is a nice area with culture and Big Flats has the mall and lots of shopping. There are smaller towns in between all the larger cities, everything is rural. Bath, Hammondsport, Penn Yan are great areas too. Hammondsport was awarded Coolest Small Town. The Finger Lakes Area is one of the most beautiful areas; the lakes, wineries, small town feel are wonderful. Houses on the lakes are very pricey but out in the country they are very reasonable. They HAVE to be because there are barely any jobs or opportunities here. Most people who own the lake houses have these as summer homes and travel from the big cities. Buffalo, Rochester, Ithaca, Syracuse are larger and have more things available and you don't have to drive far to get back to the country with hills and farms. Actually between Buffalo and Rochester is a nice stretch of farms, farmer's markets, nice countryside. I grew up near Jamestown which is all the way west. Nice town but poor, again not many good jobs but there is a mall there, stores. Chatauqua Lake is also there and it's beautiful, as well as Chatauqua Institution which is well known for its summer cultural events. It's less than an hour to Erie, PA: lots of shopping, jobs and Lake Erie with beaches. A little east outside Jamestown are the Allegany Mountains which are neat. Anytime you are in rural areas, you will have hunting. Some people are so poor that they have to hunt to have food on the table. I hate hunting but it's something you just have to deal with here. Steuben County is extremely poor and there are trailers around, especially if you go way out into the countryside, but there are lots of nice houses too. Teens are always around, carrying on, but it's not a problem. Angelica is a sweet little town but you will have to drive a ways to get to a big store. Sometimes you just have to drive, visit and see how it makes you feel. You could always rent a house and then really travel all over to find the perfect spot. I haven't been to all of the towns that have been mentioned, but I never have felt the "New England" feeling in any of them. I have been to Lake Champlain but only once and just passing through so maybe it has more of that feeling.

Cecily - I didn't realize Cleome was one of those plants that can irritate the skin. I am trying to remember the one plant in the yard that does that to me, but it's escaping me. I pulled some today too, and didn't have an issue. I'm sorry you do. I normally wear gloves to do that job anyway, but thank you for sharing. You can't be the only one that reacts to it. I pulled a couple bare handed today, because it was only an isolated few, but this week, I'll be pulling more and make sure I have some gloves on, just in case.

Oooh, Calycanthus! Our native spice bush, Calycanthus occidentalis, is likewise well-scented, but more spicy than fruity (ginger-cloves). I've tried six ways from Sunday to figure out how to fit one into my garden, but they are humungous at maturity (15'x15') and require lots of water (typically grow by or in streams), so it hasn't been feasible -- I don't have a stream, or space, or much water to spare. This reminds me of an actual magnolia that smells strongly like bananas, Magnolia (formerly Michelia) figo. I grew one by my front door for awhile and, when it was in bloom, both the front and the back yards smelled like overripe bananas. Maybe not everybody's cup of tea, but interesting, and the little reddish magnolia flowers are cute.