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sammy_power

I had my countertops installed and I’m not so happy…

Sammy Power
21 days ago

The countertops got installed and it’s not quiet what I had anticipated for many reasons. I bought an extra slab to book match the island, backsplash and countertops. I am so dissatisfied with the seams and how the pattern flows all throughout. For context this cost 9,800 USD for the Quartz countertop alone and another 8,500 USD for fabricating them. Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure they need to be gutted and outfitted with new slabs. What annoys me the most is the corner isn’t even a mitered seam.

Salvage the exsisting cuts
Sell the house.
Remove the slabs

Comments (297)

  • M Riz
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    Im not a pro, but i think that every manufacturer has radius tolerances, its fabrication error. If @Joseph Corlett, LLC comes back, he will have the probable cause.

  • Sammy Power
    Original Author
    5 days ago

    Thanks Anna, yea. At this point I’m ready to go to marble. Kindly share your recommendations of brands that are reputable.

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  • anna_682
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    Look into Vermont Danby Marble for durability.

    https://www.marbleandgranite.com/blog/2021/may-2021-(1)/danby-marbles-everything-you-need-to-know-to-sele


    I have honed Tesoro Bianco (suppliers change names) marble. It is primarily white with brown, gray, a little blue, and black flecks. I have had no issues with staining or etching but I have only had it for a couple of months. I chose it for its beauty and movement. I am not concerned about staining. I regularly wipe down my counters and will keep them sealed.

  • jackowskib
    5 days ago

    I think it’s one of 3 possibilities why it cracked:
    1- the weight of all the ego’s bickering on this thread is too much to bear
    2- the house has settled
    3- installer error

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    5 days ago

    It is clearly fabricator error. Quartz manufacturers require a 3/8" minimum radius in inside corners; that wasn't followed because it would have been impossible with mitered edges. This problem is so pervasive, Caesarstone now prohibits inside corners.


    Contrary to anna's argument, there is no fixing this, just like there's no fixing cracked sintered (Neolith, Dekton, etc.). A cracked Corian corner would disappear permanently:




  • Sammy Power
    Original Author
    5 days ago

    Hi Anna, I’m not local to them. I’m in south Florida Boca Raton and Parkland area

  • Verbo
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    The inside corner radius was too small. An actual radiused curve was required. Reference the install manual. The one that has zero mention of the does not exist as a possibility bookmatching.

    Most homeoeners want the sharp 90, and demand the curve follow the 0 radius sink. A designer and fabricator is supposed to tell them No and save them from themself. Not cater to their ideas that are outside of industry standards. No matter how much feet stamping and bad reviews might happen.

  • Sammy Power
    Original Author
    5 days ago

    I never was never told what angle the cut should be made, so if you’re assuming that I wouldn’t go there. I never got to see how the patterns would come together let alone discussing where the cuts would go.

  • anna_682
    5 days ago

    Joseph, We are in agreement. If you read it. the article actually states quartz cannot be fixed. It will continue to crack. The warranty is voided when the correct minimum radius is not adhered to. I told her to get it removed.

  • anna_682
    5 days ago

    Sammy, Here is a store locator for the Vermont Danby marbles. There are locations in South Florida.


    https://www.vermontdanbymarble.com/home-5-3-2/

  • M Riz
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    Sammy, I dont think any of this fiasco was your fault, you were let down every step of the way, from the designer who promised the impossible to the fabricator who just went with the path of least resistance (instead of educating you on the stones limitations), to the final cutting of the stone that wasnt to (most likely) manufacturers tolerances. You were screwed. Now the question is, can you get reinbursed for a faulty fabrication? Are you going to change all of the stone in your kitchen? With Any veiny flowy stone, youre going to have similar problems, Are you planning the same layout?

  • Sammy Power
    Original Author
    5 days ago

    I still have 25% withheld as some cabinets are yet to be installed and this happened. I will probably work something out, in the mean time I’m going to work with a fabricator directly that’s very much reputable. I’ll consider all the input here and make sure he meets my expectations and sets those expectations accordingly. I will be going to a few marble shops in neighboring cities and getting there input.

  • Verbo
    5 days ago

    Jennifer is no Sophie. https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5040523/suggestions-for-updated-plan#21370992



    “Not that I have to share, but at one time or another, I could do all of the below. I’m also smart enough to pay for better results than I could achieve when it was important. As you pointed out, when hundreds of thousands of dollars are on the line, it might be important. And at 75, I don’t do as much as I used to. I drink, and I know things.

    I can:

    Change a flat tire and put the new one on the rim and seat it properly. Balance it too.

    Change my oil and filter.

    Pull a transmission and rebuild it.

    Pull a dent.

    Mix and pour concrete.

    Frame a wall. Own the framing nailer and commercial sized compressor to run it.

    Swing up and seat a truss—with help.

    Shingle a barn roof or a house with asphalt shingles. Own the roofing nailer too.

    Run a Ditchwitch and Plumb all of the exterior faucets and a good deal of the interior. Soldering copper too. Not just glueing PVC.

    Replace a light fixture or ceiling fan.

    Run a new outlet from another outlet. That’s it on electrical. Too much risk to get wrong.

    Can beans and taters, salsa, and whatever extra happened in the garden that year.

    Make my own jelly and preserves.

    Sun dry tomatoes.

    Make my own jerky. Got the Excalibur.

    Butcher a deer. Not prettily, but it can happen.

    Grill a steak. Bic lighter and I’m done.

    Graft a rose. Used to grow my own Fortuniana for it too until a bit too cold winter happened.

    Give a halfass haircut in a pinch. Not on me though.

    Design and sew my own clothes.

    Piece and quilt a decent bedspread.

    Crochet an Afghan.

    Knit a sweater.

    Embroider a pair of jeans or a jacket.

    Bedazzle. Yes, I’m that old.

    Hand draw a scale diagram.

    Use various software to do the same.

    Lay a brick wall with a string level, and know how to make and use the water level for the long runs.

    Bale lespedeza and get it in the barn the smart way.

    Run a bobcat without too much damage of person and property.

    Make muscadine wine. Drink plenty of it too.

    Solder silver jewelry. Can’t wear it though, so I quit that.

    Refinish furniture. That’s why I hate the chalk paint crowd.

    Faux finish a ceiling or wall. As in faux bois or malachite, or shagreen, or marble. Not popcorn. Although I can run a popcorn hopper too.

    And run a cellulose hopper for the guy in the attic placing it.

    Flash a window properly. No mean skill, because about half the contractors out there can’t seem to do it.

    Sew up a gash in a cow or sheep.

    Give shots and sew up a wound. On an animal only. People have too much drama.

    Thers about a zillion other things that I can do less well too. But, things I can do well and get paid for is a smaller list. As it is with anyone. No one is ever gonna hire me to work in a tire shop. And these days, I don’t DIY that any more.

    I know my limitations on what I can halfass if I have enough time, and don’t care so much about the end result. You don’t.“

  • M Riz
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    Yeah, but did she have her undergraduate degree?

  • wiscokid
    5 days ago

    @M Riz - snort

  • PRO
    Kristin Petro Interiors, Inc.
    5 days ago

    Kindly share your recommendations of brands that are reputable.

    Since you are asking about "brands" of marbles, I am assuming you do not know a lot about marble countertops. So let me help set your expectations so there are not further surprises in your remodel.

    All marble will eventually stain, etch and/or discolor over time. The imperfections that appear will not always look natural. Envision a ring etched into your surface from a jar of pickles. Or a ring stained into your surface from a glass of wine. Honed countertops will show less etching, but will stain more easily than polished. With both a polished and honed marble countertop, you will need to seal routinely. There are products out there that claim to be a lifetime sealer, but I have heard of these failing so I would not rely on them to give you a maintenance-free surface. A marble backsplash is particularly susceptible to splatters from the cooktop, especially acidic ingredients like tomatoes. You need to be diligent in wiping down all surfaces after use.

    Most people who select marble understand that it will patina over time from etching and staining. Make sure you are okay with this before you proceed with marble.

  • Sammy Power
    Original Author
    5 days ago

    Hi Kristin,

    Thank you for the heads up of what to expect. Fortunately I do know the maintenance and upkeep required of a marble countertop. I have no issue maintaining and sealing my countertop bi-weekly or monthly if need be. I’d like to get an idea of pattern/design is recommended for my kitchen cabinets. Also brands that are reputable marble manufactures or dealers would be very much helpful.

  • PRO
    Kristin Petro Interiors, Inc.
    5 days ago

    You do not purchase a brand of marble. You select slabs from local suppliers. Also, sealing only protects against staining, not etching.

    You might also want to look at quartzite slabs. Some of them offer less maintenance than marble.

    You will need a reputable designer and fabricator to help you select slabs that will allow for the look you want. I would find them first.

  • Jennifer Hogan
    5 days ago

    Truth is, you knew before you posted that this was a poorly executed design and not all what you envisioned. Good designers don't work with substandard fabricators and good fabricators don't work with substandard designers. Their reputations are tied together.


    I am also sorry that so many of the Pros and others continued to push you to accept substandard workmanship.


    As bad as I feel for you having to go through this, it is probably good that the stone cracked now, before you wrote the check to pay the balance due.


    Now you can be confident in your decision to fight back and get something that is done right and that you will love.


    My advice to see an attorney and have a demand letter drafted and counter any attempts to place a lien on your property still stands.


    I told my sister, who is one of the few people in this world who can intimidate me, about your situation. Her answer was No and Hell No. She said they would take the stone out and release her from any obligation or she would take time off work and go to the store front every day she could and picket the business and hand out flyers showing the faulty workmanship until they decided to cooperate. (She has a point - it is legal to protest on public property and hand out leaflets or information and it isn't defamatory or liable if the information is true.)


    I know social norms expect women to be nice, to be cooperative, empathetic, think about others, avoid conflict . . .


    You watched me get raked over the coals for telling you to demand satisfaction, but part of the reason you see better fabrication in Germany is because women are the customers in this country women are not respected like they are in many other countries around the world. (Yes there are places that are worse, but studies show we are not in line with most of the industrialized world.)


    The World Economic Forum estimated that it will be 208 years before women in the United States reach parity with men (we probably added another 50 or 100 years to that number with yesterday's supreme court decision.)


    https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/06/approach-to-accelerating-gender-parity-gap-equality/


    France, currently ranked 12th among 149 economies, is expected to close its overall gender gap in 22 years.

    Iceland ... in 23 years.

    Canada ... in 51 years

    Switzerland ... 54 years

    Saudi Arabia ... 76 years

    UAE ... 86 years

    the UK ... will take 74 years to gender parity


    For more than half of the economies covered, change will take a century or longer. At current trends, the US will take 208 years to close its gender gap. That’s roughly three lifetimes. In Iran and Pakistan, it may take upward of five centuries given current rates of change.


    I am telling you it is okay to stand up for yourself. and if we want equality we have to learn to stand up and fight back.


  • freedomplace1
    5 days ago

    First of all - we do not know whether ”Sammy” is a woman or a man. I do not believe that this detail has, to date, been shared by the OP. Some folks have referred to the OP as a ”he” and some have referred to the OP as a ”she”; and again, I do not believe that the OP has ever clarified their gender status here. So, we really do not know whether this is somehow a gender related issue - and whether the OP is a victim of gender related bias... Secondly, the OP has also (only just recently) revealed that they did not actually work with a ”Designer” per se - but rather with a store owner who deals in/sells cabinets and countertop material - mainly quartz.

  • chispa
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    @Sammy Power, before you move on to a new fabricator you might want to ask if anyone here has any experience with them. There are several on this forum that are in FL. I just built a house in SW FL and have a fabricator that I would not recommend. Feel free to message me and I'll share the company name in case it is near your location. I can also get you fabricator recommendations from a friend that was a designer in another area of SW FL for 20 years and mostly did kitchen remodels.

  • Jennifer Hogan
    5 days ago

    I would research Vermont Danby Marble if I were looking to install marble. It is supposed to be less absorbent and less prone to staining than Italian marbles (including Carrara / Calcutta).


    It is also mined here in the US and you don't have to worry that you are purchasing a product that may have been produced using child labor or unsafe working conditions that are common in many parts of the world.

  • Sammy Power
    Original Author
    5 days ago

    How can I reach you directly Chispa?

  • Sammy Power
    Original Author
    5 days ago

    I’ll take that into consideration thanks Jennifer

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    5 days ago

    Personally - I would not let this slide. I would go back to that owner / designer with a certified letter stating the entire situation and what your expectations are for a resolve. I believe in many states you have to give the " contractor " the opportunity to correct the wrong before moving on. Since you have paperwork stating that you had to purchase and extra slab to book match your pattern and did not receive that anywhere , I think you have a leg to stand on and have this fixed.

    I am sure you are reno weary but this is important to get correct or you will hate it forever.

    Best of luck!

  • chispa
    5 days ago

    @Sammy Power, you can send messages by first clicking on a user name and then clicking the button on top right that says "Send Message".

  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    5 days ago

    If you're interested in Vermont Danby marble, you can pm me--I've had it for over 8 years in my kitchen.

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    5 days ago

    "@Joseph Corlett, LLC - Sorry to disappoint, but I am not single. Curious - Did you ever complete your undergraduate degree?"


    I completed an Associate's degree in General Studies from Oakland Community College in 2010 or so where I took 4th place in the 2009 annual essay contest that had over 1,000 entrants. I continued my studies at Oakland University where I'm just short of being a Junior. I had a 3.63 GPA, but I doubt I'll return as I had to take the Florida plumbing license examination 3 times in order to pass last year. Maybe when I retire it'll give me something to do.

  • cheri127
    5 days ago

    @Sammy Power While there isn't much you can do to stop marble from etching, if sealed, it will not stain. At least that has been my experiencce. We only sealed our baking counter (which was also a breakfast/snack/refrigerator landing counter) once in 10 years and no stains. Lots of etches though especially when DH decided to descale the espresso machine there!!!!. There is a new product that supposedly prevents etching. It's diablolically expensive and I suspect the marble loses it's gorgeous feel after but I don't know that for sure.


    What a nightmare! $16000+ on counters and a total fiasco! Good luck with the resolution. :)

  • cheri127
    5 days ago

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC You're last comment was beyond inappropriate but you've certainly told us who you are. This is a kitchen forum for goodness sake! Sheesh.


    @Sammy Power You have the patience of Job for sure!

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    Woah, woah, woah, cheri127. I did not bring up the subject of the gender gap, however, when lies are spread about it, you can count on me to set the record straight. A little thread drift is a good thing.

  • bry911
    4 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    I really don't think this is the appropriate place to discuss the gender pay gap, and so I am not going to. However, I am going to discuss how statistics can be, and often are, misused.

    There is a saying, about lies and statistics that is useful but largely incorrect. It would be more appropriate to say that statistics can always support a lie, you just have to either manipulate the data or the interpretation.

    @Joseph Corlett, LLC provided a statistic on men dying at work more often (in a post that is no longer viewable). There are several problems with that particular statistic.

    (1) Men are much more likely to be attracted to dangerous jobs than women. It is not that women can't do those jobs, in fact women often do those jobs, it just tends to be easier to attract men willing to take risks than women for the pay given.

    (2) Men are much more likely to have a serious accident in any given career field than women. Men are more likely to disregard safety procedures, they are more likely to continue working when they shouldn't, etc. Men are also much more likely to die in a car accident than women even when you control for miles driven (vehicle miles are more dangerous for men than women).

    (3) Wages are not, and never have been, driven by the risk of injury. If that were true, coal miners would get paid more than surgeons and I assure you that is not the case.

    (4)The job mortality rate is about 3.5 per 100,000 people. That is a relatively small number to have a causal effect on national rate differences.

    I am not going to debate the gender wage gap on a home forum, if you are convinced that there is no gap then there is likely nothing that anyone here can say to convince you otherwise and vice versa I guess.

  • drucila
    4 days ago

    .

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    4 days ago

    "@Joseph Corlett, LLC provided a statistic on men dying at work more often (in a post that is no longer viewable)."


    I can still see my post and the links still work. What, it got blocked from everyone but me?

  • barncatz
    4 days ago
    last modified: 4 days ago

    ^^^Exactly. If two or more readers flag a post, it disappears from everyone's view except for the poster, who can still see it. If only one person flags a post, it only disappears from the flagger's threadview. Houzz moderators review a two-flag post and either delete it (I don't know if the original poster can still view it) or restore it to everyone's view.

    Here is director Nancy Meyer's kitchen with marble counters and backsplash. She has a TV in the corner. If you click on the photo to enlarge it, you can see the veining pattern.



  • Debbie Downer
    3 days ago
    last modified: 3 days ago

    Thanks for explaining the flagging system Barncatz. That explains why my posts so often disappear only to reappear a day later. I do express opinions that are often at odds with the fad followers, and sometimes strongly.... but then when the mods see that Im really not attacking anyone personally, they generally allow the post.

    Oh, before anyone gets offended and flags this post - I am not using "fad followers" as a derogatory phrase. There are some fads that I quite enjoy myself. Among them: tiny houses, weathered and charred wood stain colors, purple velvet curtains. I could go on!

  • barncatz
    3 days ago

    Ha ha @Debbie Downer.


    Also, I don't think the moderators work over the weekends.

  • freedomplace1
    3 days ago

    ^^^ good to know, @barncatz. :)

  • freedomplace1
    3 days ago
    last modified: 3 days ago

    @Debbie Downer if you like purple curtains - you may like this lamp. I noticed it on one of the discussions yesterday; @everdebz posted this one ( and I immediately confiscated it 😂 ).





    The one review(er) on this site says that the shade appears lighter in person - due to a white liner; but I think I would risk it, because I really love this one. I slipped it into a couple of room setup/views.





  • freedomplace1
    3 days ago
    last modified: 3 days ago
  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    3 days ago

    "^^^Exactly. If two or more readers flag a post, it disappears from everyone's view except for the poster, who can still see it. If only one person flags a post, it only disappears from the flagger's threadview. Houzz moderators review a two-flag post and either delete it (I don't know if the original poster can still view it) or restore it to everyone's view."


    Great. So now we have the Heckler's Veto here on Houzz.

  • barncatz
    3 days ago

    It's been that way on Houzz for Donkey's Years, Joe.

  • PRO
    Ed Sossich at Main Line Kitchen Design
    2 days ago

    I'm no tarot card reader - but I see an unhappy Sammy with etched marble tops in the future. Not understanding the limitations of the products being used was how this train left the station. Repeating the same mistake suggests that the train may be driving without an engineer.

  • anna_682
    2 days ago

    Sammy, update us with the outcome. Wishing you the best.

  • rebunky
    2 days ago
    last modified: 2 days ago

    Hi Kristin,

    Thank you for the heads up of what to expect. Fortunately I do know the maintenance and upkeep required of a marble countertop. I have no issue maintaining and sealing my countertop bi-weekly or monthly if need be. I’d like to get an idea of pattern/design is recommended for my kitchen cabinets. Also brands that are reputable marble manufactures or dealers would be very much helpful.

    Ed,

    Sammy wrote the above a few days ago after a PRO mentioned the etching and other drawbacks of marble. As well as the fact that there are no marble brands.

    A very knowledgeable poster then offered for Sammy to PM her for marble fabricator recommendations in Florida.

    Then another PRO, who has had Danby marble installed in her kitchen for 8 years, kindly told Sammy to PM her for futher advice.

    Sammy has also mentioned they most likely are going with a tile backsplash instead of a full height matching marble backsplash so as to avoid the same corner outcome. So, Sammy is not as stupid as you seem to imply.

  • freedomplace1
    yesterday
    last modified: yesterday

    I don’t think Ed meant any harm. Marble countertops in a kitchen are not for everyone. imo, the best candidates for marble in kitchen are those who are ok with the marble showing age and use; known as patina.

    And btw, I do know how to read tarot cards. Don’t need them for this.

  • ci_lantro
    yesterday

    "Also brands that are reputable marble manufactures or dealers would be very much helpful."

    I'm going to hazard a guess that OP's quote ('marble maufactures') above is why Ed doubled down with his wise words of caution.

    Perhaps another thing to consider for those who are pushing real marble is what size of marble slabs are available. Esp. given the size of Sammy's large kitchen. My understanding is that marble slabs in excess of 8' long are harder to find and come at a premium both in slab cost & fabrication cost. Sammy has a couple of long runs, 112" & 108", and another <94" run that pushes the limit. The 112" run is the horizontal of the waterfall island. All of which will likely complicate sourcing material. But maybe I'm wrong & finding the jumbo slabs of real marble is easzy peazy.

  • PRO
    Debbi Washburn
    10 hours ago

    I wish Sammy luck. There will still be the issue of bookmatching the veins on the island and for turning the corner in the plan.

    I hope the new fabricator will give them the proper computerized layout to see what will be.

    I also hope there is some sort of compensation for the problems the "designer" caused.

  • PRO
    JAN MOYER
    8 hours ago
    last modified: 8 hours ago

    With the possible exception of Taj Mahal quartzite ( beiges , grays. whites depending ) ...........would I put ANY veined, patterned, tops with this floor ? No I would not.

    "Train with no engineer?" Yeah. from the get /go

    In fact, I am so beyond TIRED of charmless, over sized kitchens - landing strip size islands? I'm almost ready to scream I'm definitely loving my galley, that much is certain.



  • Keshet Starr
    7 hours ago

    Just noting I am very happy with the Danby in my kitchen. It hasn't stained at all, and while there is etching it's really only visible if you angle your neck a certain way. I have four kids and cook every day, so it gets used:).