I did a gut remodel recently and had a designer and a GC.

In my experience any of the finishes that relied on aesthetics like tile, flooring, counters or the equivalent were purchased through my designer.

For example, I supplied all of the tiles for my bathroom and the faucets, valves, towel racks etc. These were purchased through my designer. The GC was supplied with the specifications and the design for the tiles and he supplied all of the materials necessary to implement the design and supplied the labor. For the counter I went to the stoneyard and selected slabs and his fabricator picked it up and installed all of the counters. I supplied sinks and faucets - and so on. I picked out the wood for the floors and paid through my designer but all of the cork, self leveling materials, glue and labor were supplied by the GC with his markup.

There was ample profit in the job for the GC and the designer. 😂 I am not even sure how the process would work if the GC supplied aesthetic stuff since my designer was generally the person who had the trade relationship with the tile suppliers, stone yards etc. She was the one who made recommendations for tiles and/or was the one who came with me to the stone yard to help me select or to the design center to look at various design options.

However if your GC has a bad working relationship with a designer then it isn't going to work out. My designer and GC had a great relationship and had worked on a lot of projects and continue to do so.

I wanted to answer some of your procedural questions

With my remodel, my designer had created the "plans" which were submitted to the City for permits. These were quite comprehensive and included all materials and designs since these impact the cost of a remodel since certain materials or designs are more expensive than others. Items that were not supplied by the GC were specified but the plans were specific enough so that when I signed my contract with the GC they were incorporated by referenced and attached as the scope of work.

These plans were what were used to get bids from contractors so what I received from the GC's was not an estimate but a firm bid. It was pretty moot since I only had one GC who was interested in the job and I relied on his having done work for others in my building; his having worked with my designer who I also had confidence because of her work for others; and I also visited two jobs he was currently doing which were in more luxurious buildings than mine LOL so I was confident of the quality of his work and that he wouldn't flake out. I wasn't shopping for price - I was shopping for good quality and reliability so price was almost irrelevant.

Who is providing you with a budget? Until you have the specific detailed plans you don't really have a budget. You know how much you can afford to spend on the project but you don't know whether that is realistic until you actually price out the specific materials and get a firm bid based on those plans and even then add at least 20% as a contingency for suprises.

Thank you. I got a rough ballpark estimate from the designer. So it sounds like maybe I should have specific materials selected, with the plans, and then present those to a GC? That seems logical to me.

Any contractor who is ready to dtsrt right away, and who airs his dirty laundry history with her, as he badmouths her, is not someone you ever want to work with. There are good contractors out there, but they will not be available for months.

Designers plan and source. Thst is their job. Contractors build what is designed, and charge enough labor to do that. Whoever sources spends hours doing that, and managing the logistics, and that is the service that the materials markup fee is for. It is paid work, not ”profit”. If the guy doesn’t even understand that, hes not running a successful business.

Our designer ordered our cabinets. While she helped us shop for tile, countertops, and lighting, she expected the GC and subs to do the actual ordering. As it turned out, local GCs want homeowners to do that themselves. Our designer was a bit shocked that the GC asked us to purchase our own tile and plumbing fixtures. But at no point did she offer to do that for us. It's not an expected profit center for her.

I agree with Helen--the important thing is that your contractor and your designer don't have a good relationship, and that just can't work out well. You already know and trust your contractor. Maybe the solution is to ask him to recommend a new designer.

If you are serious about moving ahead have your designer draw up the plans that will be used to obtain permits. The name of these escapes me but they looked like blueprints/elevations with all of the materials and dimensions on them.

I was charged a fee for drawing up these plans by my designer. For me it was based on a certain amount per square foot. This amount was essentially a flat fee and I owned these plans. At the same time I also had her do the "design" elements - e.g. showing me a design board. There was a charge for this but that amount was recoupable against fees I would owe if I decided to move forward. I had no obligation to move forward and I didn't have to do the second portion but there was some amount of cost savings and I knew I was moving ahead with this designer and so there really was no point in delaying things.

My remodel was essentially finished right before the pandemic but I relied on my designer and my GC to coordinate scheduling. Even with coordination there were the expected glitches - for example the hood I ordered was the wrong size and had to be sent back to be remade. This caused the tile backsplash on that wall to be delayed because the tile setter wanted to wait until the hood was installed. However I did have a functioning home albeit with odd things missing like closet doors or knobs for interior doors :-).

@mcarroll16 Shows that designers operate differently. My designer ordered tiles and charged me her agreed upon markup and got a trade discount. The decorative lighting was also ordered by her but I assume the generic canned lights were ordered by the GC or electrician based on her design specifications. In my experience almost everything I ordered through her including toilets was less expensive than if I ordered it directly even at theoretical bargain sites. I don't understand how a GC could have the same kind of contacts with to the trade design sources as a professional designer. And if the designer is doing the design elements like recommending tile and sourcing it how does she get compensated for those services since making the aesthetic choice of tile and ensuring that it complements all of the other design elements are the essence of what design services are.

Our designer is compensated based on time spent. She sets a minimum fee to begin, then charges by the hour if her time spent exceeds her initial estimate. Agree that there are a lot of possible models. We were very happy with this arrangement. It gave us confidence that her advice was based on design and our best interests.

I've worked with lots of third-party designers, architects, and interior designers over the years. I find it's best to not inter-mingle material sourcing on projects except for select items such as a custom-made light fixture or a custom-made mosaic wall for a shower where the designer has an established relationship with a particular supplier and I don't.

An arrangement where the designer, architect, and interior designer are fairly compensated for their design efforts alone is cleaner and allows you to make your contractor 100% responsible for the execution part.

There are as many arrangements as there are designers and contractors. BUT the most important factor is that everyone can work together without problems. Mutual respect and open communication will ensure a favorable outcome for all. It sounds like there is a lot of friction between your contractor and designer, so you need to make a choice between the two--which one would you rather work with? If you choose the contractor, then have him suggest a designer; if you choose the designer, then work with his/her contractor.

I'm trying to respond to a few comments at once. The contractor is successful and builds custom homes. He was going to fit the bathroom into his schedule because it is a small project and we have a good relationship. I think he spoke freely to me about the issues in confidence with the hope it would help me and not to disparage the designer in the community.

It sounds like there is not an industry-wide protocol as to whether the designer or contractor or subs or homeowners order materials?

The designer is working on finding another contractor and I don't want another one to fall through. My hope was that I could figure out the standard way the materials issues should be handled so that I could ask her to perhaps reconsider if that is appropriate.

Thanks so much everyone.

I think in reality the designer would like to operate as a design-build firm but doesn't have a GC.

I don't think there is a standard, industry-wide protocol regarding who supplies construction materials on a residential project. Ask the contractors you're considering what they'll allow you to supply. If the contractor's policy regarding customer-supplied materials doesn't fit your needs, it will be better to learn that early in the process and part company.

In my experience, it works best to have a single source of accountability for everything-- and that should be your home builder or remodeler. I'll permit my clients to supply a limited amount of components--typically light fixtures--but where quantity take-offs are essential to keeping the project on schedule--e.g., tile, hardwood flooring, trim, etc. having someone other than me supply it tends to cause logistics issues. We're already dealing with enough logistics problems in the covid-19 world.

In markets where good contractors are in short supply, you'll need to be flexible or wait for the next construction slowdown.

Thank you! So, would it be correct to say, we have picked out X tile, Y flooring, and Z counter, and then the GC orders sufficient X, y, and Z for the project themselves, so that the correct amount is ordered and the right types of other materials are available to make it all work?

My clients make their selections and my tile setter or hardwood flooring trade partner calculate the required quantities including waste; the trade partners furnish those materials. If they're short on the quantity and need to order additional materials and make a return trip to finish the job it's on them--there is no additional cost to the client.

I recently had a prospective client who took it upon themselves to order tile for their master bath remodel before we had even agreed on a design or a contract price for the remodel--yes, really! I don't know how you do that, but I can tell you I won't be the one executing their project.

IMO the designer does the design and also the sourcing for the materilas tht are part of that design so usually not the lumber , drywall etc but the sinks tubs tiles and the GC does the work to bring the job to a finish based on the designers plan . I will agree thta any other trade bad mouthing another is never good business. I never let a GC do ordering of materilas that I hve chosen for a design that is on me to make sure the right amount is orederd and his job is to make sure it is installed as per my instructions like tile layout for instance .

Thanks again for taking the time to respond. The help is appreciated so much.

The designer composes the music and the GC plays the music as written.

If you hire a designer, that person is responsible to hand you a successful finished design project. It is a red flag for a GC to speak behind the designer's back, even if he is your friend and design/build contractor.

As a designer for over 4 decades (yikes) my job often consists of fixing and upgrading design/build projects. Trust your designer, who has experience in form and function, color and textures and a master plan for your project. I completely understand the designer wanting to control ordering and in this atmosphere, using suppliers that they can rely on. Let's face it, if something goes wrong, the designer will get the blame from everyone.

Also GCs have a habit of suggesting other solutions to the homeowners not respecting other professionals.

Your choice is the person who will be "the head honcho and main bottle washer". From your post, you are smart to be concerned early on, before it is a catastrophe, and you, a very unhappy client.

"Also GCs have a habit of suggesting other solutions to the homeowners not respecting other professionals."

And are blamed when they don't suggest other solutions. Can't win.

I think it's important that you said he does custom builds usually. Perhaps he is used to having control over everything and remodeling is not a good fit for him. I had a contractor on an addition that included three full baths (one was new, two were remodeled) who exclusively did remodels. He was accustomed to someone else specifying the finishes and we did a combination of material we bought (lighting fixtures, pulls, etc.) and stuff he bought (tile, bath fixtures). As long as both parties know who is buying what up front it shouldn't be a problem because the contract can be written accordingly. There were no misunderstandings or issues with what we paid him.

When I work with a builder for new construction, they typically order all materials. When I work with a GC for a remodel, I order all materials (other than building materials).

If a contractor sees warning signs and pulls out of a project based on his knowledge of other participants, this is a red flag. However, I disagree with the conclusion that the GC is behaving badly and shouldn't be disparaging the designer. I don't have enough information to make a judgement but there is certainly an issue of concern. It might turn out that the contractor has problems or the designer has problems but it might also be that they are both competent and have developed a system that enables them to complete their projects successfully and aren't interested in a different approach.

As the consumer, if I had not been diligent on checking the designer's references,  I would be looking to speak with past clients before continuing. Yes, it is a bit concerning when a contractor is available too quickly but this might be a small fill in project because the next big project has had an unexpected delay. Perhaps interest rate hikes or supply chain issues have disrupted the contractor's schedule which is a valid possibility and doesn't make him incompetent

Professionals working with professionals. If the client could do a reno themselves, they would. Designers have a vision and present the design to the client for approval. The client already knows, and expects, what the design will be.

As you mentioned, the contractor is concerned with the purchasing because if he doesn't, it eats into his profit. This doesn't sound like his compensation is well thought out, and contractors usually tack on a % for purchasing.

I hope you have a contract or letter of agreement from both parties.

And for goodness sake, don't ask the contractor for design advice. Undermining the designer and their capabilities will deflate the outcome, if they are questioned at every turn.

You are the client and have all the strings. But you are not the referee.

Ah, egos.

"You are the client and have all the strings."

You have most of the strings. You have the what, where, when, and why strings, but a smart contractor never gives up the who and how strings.

"And for goodness sake, don't ask the contractor for design advice."

If he doesn't ask, the contractor is fine with the design. If a contactor offers design advice, he's probably seen the problems in the design previously and you'd be very wise to consider his advice. I've seen and repaired plenty of fire hazards that were built just as they were drawn and specified.

The worst trait for anyone on the team is arrogance. When anyone thinks their work is beyond criticism, trouble awaits.

"When anyone thinks their work is beyond criticism, trouble awaits." This is true everywhere in life, not just construction.

The proper way to discuss the design challenges, is with the contractor, before they are presented to the client. Or if that has already happened, and the contractor sees an issue, that is a separate meeting, without the client. You don’t introduce conflict in front of the client. Professionals are there to make the client experience as smooth as possible. If the contractor runs into an unforseen issue, the best tactic is to problem solve with the professionals behind the scene, and then present the problem and solutions, if it needs attention and buy off from the client. If the problem is solved, and it doesn’t need to be brought to the client’s attention, then don’t. You don’t mention a problem and how it was solved, just to toot your horn. It introduces anxiety into the client, which bites you big time, as they start looking for problems that don’t exist.

I've worked with a number of interior designers--some outstanding, some average, and some below average. The best ones are content working as a member of a team and contributing their expertise as appropriate. It's not important to them that they're in a superior role. I'm working with one now who is fabulous. She's listened to suggestions from my carpenters, the client, and me and used them (with or without modification) to make the end product even better. There's never been a "who's in charge argument and I suspect their never will be because we respect each other's expertise.

The notion that the builder doesn't want someone else ordering materials is often spun as a "taking money out of the builder's pocket" argument. Nonsense. The builder charges what he/she needs to be fairly compensated for the project irrespective of who is supplying materials. You can consider the amount the builder needs to make as a mark up on materials or labor or both or a flat fee if you like. Doesn't matter. What does matter is that someone else ordering materials adds to the logistics, and potentially the cost, to execute the project.

Getting input from the trades early in the process is important. I consider that an important and a differentiating dimension of the design/build process.

We hired two designers at different times and each of them had their own contractor. Each designer was responsible for the materials and I would pay the vendors directly and add 10 or 15% which went to the designer in addition to her hourly charge. I also paid their contractors directly.

I really liked the second designer but unfortunately we had an argument a few years ago. I am planning to buy another house that needs remodeling and will have to find another designer.

"We hired two designers at different times and each of them had their own contractor. I also paid their contractors directly.

This designer would be contracting without a license in the state of Florida. Only homeowners, GCs, BCs, and RCs may sign enforceabel contracts here.

@Joseph Corlett, LLC

I tried to avoid it, but you hit a nerve.

The same is true in Virginia. Interior Designers get around Virginia contractor law by having the homeowner pull the permit (if the job is even permitted at all) and contract directly with subcontractors (who may be unlicensed and uninsured and who may not pull permits.) If it's a straightforward replacement/refresh project it might have an acceptable outcome. If structural/infrastructure changes are involved, it often doesn't. An interesting wrinkle here in Virginia, is that the state Board for Contractors can't discipline an unlicensed contractor unless they were licensed at one time and their license has lapsed. That limits a homeowner's remedies in the event of a problem.

I offer contractor referrals only and it's the client's decision if they want to contract with them or not. That means that sometimes I work with my preferred contractor and sometimes I don't. Inexperienced designers may not understand that when they invoice for a contractor, they are taking on the liability of that trade. I pay significantly for my insurance already and it assumes my company does not take a hammer to anything. It may "leave money on the table" but it reduces my risk substantially and allows for the client to have clear contracts with qualified insured contractors.