I recently changed vets, and, when I made the appointment, I was told they had a $50 no-show deposit for each of my two dogs. They said the number of people just not keeping their appointments had seriously impacted their business.

I get the fatigue with the social media worthy event for every milestone, particularly in that generation.

My niece just moved to an area where in addition to an elaborate First Communion party , which is by default family because other friends are also making FC, some of the girls had elaborate "Say yes to the Communion Dress parties". It's all too much. But accepting or declining properly is still in order.

“WTH is going on? Are all of these people socially tone-deaf? Again, it is not about the dollars but about the emotional cost. It breaks my heart. Were these people raised by wolves?”

I’ll go with raised in a barn. People don’t have bad manners, they are ignorant and have no manners. Etiquette classes for children have been passé for decades now, but I maintain there is value in deliberate, didactic lessons on how to behave. Manners are not instinctive, nor can they be learned by osmosis — especially when there is no adult role model to emulate. Dropping instructions on how to behave in favor of “be kind” has now morphed into “don’t bother” or “who cares?”

Well I guess I do know some adults who don't even know how to set a table even only with three utensils and two plates.

People are sending invites to "say yes to the Communion dress" events? Oy.

As I've said before, in my opinion we have become an "all about me" society. I think social media has contributed to this - blather on to everyone about every little thing in your life that most people couldn't care less about let alone your 500 "friends". Proper behavior and manners should be taught to children by their parents. I've seen cases where I know that occurred but once they became adults it all went out the window.

Wow that's awful...and heart breaking. Isn't that the classic nightmare from childhood...to have a party and no one show up? I'm so sorry. It's no wonder businesses and restaurants, and now apparently private parties too have to follow up and follow up to make sure people will show when they say they will. Hard not to take no shows personally, but it shouldn't be in these days of little etiquette and little consideration for others.

I have one word for why this is happening: Entitlement. The children raised as entitled brats become spoiled entitled adults who don't think they have any personal responsibility. They think they have the right to behave as they wish and it's others' responsibility to accommodate them and *their* needs. They have no mind or care as to how their behavior affects anyone else.

bbstx, I can only imagine how disappointed your daughter was. I wish I knew what was wrong with people, but I am clueless. I suppose your daughter's future events will be super intimate, which is fine, but she sounds like a person who craves more sparkle and froth, I know I do.

Kswl, When I think of etiquette classes, I think of some refinement. My children learned how to behave at a dance, the importance of properley greeting people, making introductions, thank you plus one, not crossing your legs, but letting someone know you will not make it to a party, that is just very basic human decency.

Plus, I think all the etiquette classes in the world are for naught if you come from a family which does not value and practice manners. The classes are for reinforcement, knowing it's not just your annoying family that insist on certain formalities which have fallen by the wayside.

There are some who conduct their lives through texts and emojis. If you truly don't understand what emojis say and convey and I think a lot of people don't, then not showing up for something when you say you will is nothing more than a frownie face. Consideration of others feelings become meaningless.

I get the fatigue with the social media worthy event for every milestone, particularly in that generation.

I am not on FB anymore, but those 50+ that would post about Birthday Month for not only their adult children, but themselves.... don't even get me started.

@bbstx that is horrible. I know her feelings were hurt. The only thing similar that happened to me was when we were getting married. It was a very small ceremony in the house I grew up in, and the day after Christmas. Mostly family, but a few of my parents' close friends I had known my entire life. Two of those wives wanted to give me a luncheon - one I really did not want, but was pressured into. My soon-to-be SIL was a no response no-show, but turns out they were about to announce their divorce. A friend was a no-show. I didn't feel bad for myself, but for the ladies throwing me the luncheon.

When DD2 was little we went to a playgroup each Wednesday. One of the ladies told the story about her and her DH having a party at their house soon after they wre married. He was from this town, but she was not. 20 people were invited. She cooked and cleaned, did everything herself. NO ONE showed up. Not a single person. It really did a number on her, even 15yrs later.

Were these people raised by wolves?

Essentially, yes. I am in my late 30s and when my brother and I were children, my mom sat us down and read Miss Manners together. We were taught ettiquette and table manners. Now, I'm not saying that my manners are perfect, but I definitely try. And I cannot say the same thing for most of my generation and the generation after me. No one I know even thinks about ettiquette. When I was getting married I bought Emily Post's Wedding Ettiquette book because it was the first (and only) formal event I'd ever thrown and I wanted to make sure to handle things appropriately and to make sure my guests were treated with the utmost politeness.

We tend to pooh pooh manners as being something for fussbudgets or a minor thing, but they are the oil that keeps the wheels of society turning . . .

I think this hits the nail on the head. My generation and probably some of my parents generation and certainly the generation after me doesn't view "manners" as critical life skills. As a result, people are absolutely ignorant of proper manners unless they had parents who did not pooh pooh it and taught them at least something. And I think remote / digital interactions, especially on social media, has amplified the ignorance and bad behavior. People are unbelievably rude online and I think that is seeping even more into our society.

27 RSVP’d that they were coming and 9 showed up.

I feel so sorry for your daughter and her husband. I think I would be heartbroken. I have had a few gatherings where people said they would come and then didn't, but this is beyond.

We socialize much more casually and have very few RSVP events. Still, i can honestly say, if we were invited to something and couldn't attend, I would let the hostess know. When we have done restaurant "parties", as someone mentioned above, I too have kept in touch with people on the guest list up until the date of the event, trying to know how many we will have.

"Proper behavior and manners should be taught to children by their parents. I've seen cases where I know that occurred but once they became adults it all went out the window." I so agree with this! Yes, I have seen it happen, "it all went out the window", and I want to SMH as I think "what would your parents think"? LOL

Yes, I still do thank-you notes.

If his is the future, it's gonna get uglier and uglier. And then people will complain about how depressed, anxious and lonely they are, I wonder why?

RSVPs and the follow up attendance went the way of the Dodo bird long ago. I think raised by wolves is sadly pretty accurate @bbstx. For whatever reason there is a significant portion of the population unable to see the value in manners. It was a reality when my boys were little and their parents, people of my generation and somewhat younger, either couldn't follow up or commit too their response. But honestly I remember my mother sighing deep sighs looking at the guest list for a large party she and my father were giving in the late 60s. Not a large dinner party at home but downtown Chicago, fancy hotel, large band etc etc so I guess there is nothing new under the sun.

Wow, that is really egregious! It would put such a pall over what should have been a joyous evening! I do hope those rude guests get everything back in their lives that they put out there.....

And, some that do RSVP and show up, well, they make up their own time. I guess some people think being very late is ok because they made it. Bad punctuality is in epic proportions. I find it particularly annoying if there is an agreed time to meet up for dinner. If you get held up due to traffic or an emergency at least call. Never arrive more than a few minutes late to a friends house for dinner.

I am Gen X and see it all the time. It has been in every stage of our lives from our wedding, baby shower, children's birthday parties, teen parties, holiday parties, etc. The ones that I still remember are those single friends who insisted on bringing dates to our wedding and then were complete no-shows. Incredibly rude and an unnecessary expense for the bride and groom. I really don't understand. Pre Covid, we had a big holiday party every year and I learned to undercount the food with the caterer because of no-shows.

When we are invited to something I always speak to the host to respond and to ask if I can help or offer to make something. One positive thing from quarantine is that we haven't entertained on a large scale since then. It has been eye-opening who stayed in touch during that time and our friends circle has definitely condensed. We don't plan to have big parties going forward so the lack of responses won't be as much of an issue.

And, some that do RSVP and show up, well, they make up their own time. I guess some people think being very late is ok because they made it.

This blows my mind. How is anyone supposed to plan a meal or event if the guests are going to show up whenever they choose?

Though I have to say I am a little unclear on the current expectations of casual parties. My husband and I usually try to arrive at the time specified or at least within 10 minutes or so if we're worried about being too early. I would never show up before the specified time. But it seems like there is some unspoken rule about people arriving some period of time after the party time that I am unclear about. I saw it mentioned on a sitcom once and it has been my experience when we've hosted casual (non-family) get togethers that everyone seems to arrive quite a while after the time we specify. Anyone want to clue me in on the ettiquette with that?

That’s a tricky one Prickly!

Within the past year I went to a wedding of a co-worker and they preferred money, I don't remember if there was a registry or not, and I gave a fairly sizeable gift. I haven't received a thank you note yet, --I know you have up to a year, and it's not a year yet. But I never even got a verbal thank you, and I work with this person every week.

I just got invited to another wedding, and it's close to 2000 miles away, so I am not attending. The website for the wedding says in essence "all we would like is your presence, if you would like to give a gift we are registered at_____" and there is an assortment of things from very inexpensive to fairly expensive and "group gifts". On the one hand I think it's nice that they don't necessarily want gifts (and I think that it's genuine), but it's also a little anything goes and confusing. It's not difficult to understand why people really don't know what to do anymore.

ETA: one of my nieces got married a few years back at a fairly substantial wedding (basilica, black tie optional, full band, breakfast the next day, feature in the Sunday supplement). She said that there were few no-shows that surprised her. But there were also a number of people who gave no gift at all, not even an empty card. She isn't one of those people that thinks the price of the gift should be commensurate with the price of the meal or anything like that. She though it was a little odd, though.

No excuse for any of it--but still it really isn't NEW behavior. Since I got married and before RSVPs on wedding invites the caterer would tell you mean nothing. There's been a percentage of no shows since the beginning of time. People do not make commitments or over commit what ever bottom line they do the brightest shiniest thing. The were raised by people w/ too soft a heart my MIL would say. There is no line anymore. Anything goes It's their CHOICE after all!!!

I have found for years the opposite happening. We host yearly class end parties and find alot do not RSVP by our request deadline and then call the day of to let me know their kid is coming and has allergies and ask that I not serve foods with their allergen. I served my graduation peanut butter cup cap dessert inspite of the rude parents’ requests!

The worst no-show I've experienced was at a recent building dedication, being formally named for someone, with the bulding sign unveiled, and a speaker to honor the person. Well, the person being honored with the named building didn't show up. Yes there was follow up in case of emergency, attendees were SO worried, but their wife "forgot". Boomers, so it seems it's happening in each generation.

A point of clarification: DD and DSIL were not giving the birthday where only 9 showed up. They were guests. The hostess is a very close friend of my daughter. My daughter was by turns heartbroken for her friend and mad as hell at the people who didn’t honor their commitment.

Prickly, there used to be ”fashionably late” which was maybe 20-30 minutes late and only allowable if it were a cocktail party, in my book. If I’m having a casual party where everyone mingles, 20-30 minutes won’t throw off anything. But if I’ve invited you to dinner at 7:00, I expect you to be there at 7:00 maybe 7:05. I’ve been known to arrive 5 or 10 minutes early and sit in the car or drive around the block until the appointed time.

@bbstx I do the drive around the block thing too! That's good to know about "fashionably late" for cocktail parties. I think that makes sense that if there is not a sit down meal, it would be acceptable to arrive up to 30min late. I think the case where I've felt irked by guests arriving extremely late has indeed been sit down meals.

As a vegetarian, it's a challenge to know how best to notify the hosts of my limited diet. Anyone that knows me pretty well is aware. And it's not an allergy so I'm not going to be upset if things are "touching" as long as I don't have to be rude and pick things off/out in front of people. One time my neighbors were already planning a meal for some guests and invited us last minute (hours before). I did not want to stress out the host and so I did not tell them and just planned on making do with what I could. It worked out fine, but I think did cause the hostess some anxiety. But I did not want her to feel obligated to change her meal plan last minute on account of my choices. Obviously that's different than an allergy which could cause a real medical issue.

Bbstx, this behavior is appalling and I didnt realize it was so widespread. I’ve certainly heard of guests not showing up without notification, but not in large numbers like this. Even with my family members who are around this age I don’t believe it happens within their friend groups.

If you decline an invitation of mine, I don’t need all the details of why you are declining. A simple, ’we are busy and cannot make it’ is fine, or ’going to the moon that weekend’, ok. I would be mad as heck over the silent no shows, not to mention the hurt. And most people should be at least somewhat irritated at the cost incurred.

Re multiple restaurant reservations, I use Open Table a lot, especially for out of town reservations. I always get a reminder and an ’are you still coming’ message a day or two before the date. And yes, I always respond. I wonder if my reservation would be in jeopardy if I didn’t respond?

Pal gets the award for best new word….Guestzilla, and i’m stealing it right this minute.

I feel really fortunate that for the most part, our social circle consists of people who were brought up properly and teaching their children manners. You know, requiring my children to write ty notes wasn’t fun or easy…but it was important to me, and it was important to my mother to teach me.

I have to say, I felt a significant bit of pride when a friend of mine told me she had received a ”lovely note” from my college student ds for a small gift she sent him. I didn’t know about the gift (it was a souvenir from an event that her family attended that ds was also interested in) so I didn’t know to remind him to write the note. He remembered on his own. I know he SHOULD do that at his age, but it was the first time I realized my harping had sunk in. 😂

Someone asked what was the last ty note received. I received one last week from ds’s gf. Her sorority was doing a fundraiser, and I donated to it. She wrote a lovely note. 💕 There ARE younger people who have been taught manners. (I sound like I am one hundred years old just typing that sentence 😂)

My kids and many in our area use ”ma’ams and sirs” when talking to elders, ds opens doors for women, and stands when a woman joins our group if he’s seated. Many probably think these things are archaic…but I’ll tell you what…kids with manners stand out in school interviews, job interviews, job meetings…every aspect of the business world.

Nini, what a lovely son you have brought up.

I think we're pretty much all in agreement that this behavior is rude and potentially hurtful and we have all experienced it in some form to some degree.

What do you do?

Act like nothing happened.

Write that person off, never again.

Reach out to see if they are okay after whatever caused them to be unable to attend and be courteous enough to let you know.

Confront them. Let them know that hearts were broken and trust damaged.

I mean, if they don't like it, oh well.

Another point of clarification: the 18 who didn’t come had responded to the RSVP that they were coming. That is a far more egregious sin than not responding at all.

Bunny, you ask what to do. To me this was a big deal party. It wasn’t throwing some chips and salsa on the table and making up a batch of margaritas from a mix. If it were, I might let it slide. As it is, the people who responded that they were coming and then didn’t show up would never ever never again get an invitation to anything from me.

Of course, if I were really clever, I might send a get well card to each one because surely they were at death’s door to do what they did.

If I didn't care enough about the person, I'd just strike them from my list and never invite again. Dead to me.

But if it was someone I did care about, I'd say something. Make sure they weren't at death's door or standing by someone else who was. But I do believe in atonement, forgiveness, and redemption. In the past I've been extended the grace to get on the right side of a situation when I screwed up. It's actually a favor to let the person know how their actions/words hurt. Put the ball in their court. If they don't respond, you have your answer. For others, they may surprise you.

Pal, we gave a substantial gift to our niece who married in 2020 and have not yet received a thank you. I’m embarrassed for her but she and her equally ill mannered husband are clueless. I am considering changing my gift to her sisters (when they marry) to a donation to a social justice cause of my choosing.

I know I have said this before, but our dinner invitations are always given in the form of ”6:30 for 7” or ”7 for 7:30.” The first time is when drinks are served and the second is when dinner is served. This is how my parents and their friends always structured dinner and how written invitations read. Verbal invitations, same. This gives people a better indication of the timeline as well as a hard start for sitting down to eat. If someone wanted to come but could not make it for drinks they could always just let you know they would skip the drinks and join you for dinner. At big dinners— banquets— the cocktail hour is usually an hour. This helps get everyone assembled before sitting down, gives time for coats to be checked, cars parked and last minute kitchen preparation.

Kswl, I love that time line idea!!!

Honestly, I think people don't understand that social commitments are not about them. But about the host. I just had someone cancel tonight. A dinner party of four and I wanted to say oh are you going to the emergency room? But I understand, kind of, although Christmas time was an absolute nightmare dealing with a younger generation who thought it was all about themselves and how they felt and what they wanted to do. Sometimes it makes me never want to entertain again because it's so hard getting people to show up, particularly when I put in an enormous amount of preparation time into it.

I suppose I could just throw out the potato salad from the deli and the solo cups like most people do which is never happening.

edited to add: not just the about the host but what they the guest add to the group dynamic. That the host is trying to create for everyone to enjoy.

This thread is making me very thankful for our group of friends.

I have to disagree with "raised in a barn." One of our nieces was certainly not raised in a barn. We bought her and her husband an expensive wedding gift, flew out of state for their wedding, and never received either an oral or a written thank you. I know her mother (my SIL by marriage) would be appalled, but I will never mention it to her. The same goes for RSVPs these days it seems.

If a person tells me they are coming, and then doesn’t show up and doesn’t even tell me they aren’t going to show up, that’s the last invite they’ll ever get from me.

This thread reminds me of the line I use when I don’t want to go to an event: ”I‘m sorry I won’t be able to attend.” (No details, no excuses, just that I’m not able.) I used it for a sorority meeting last month and the next time I saw the hostess, she said, ”I’m sorry you weren’t able to attend.” I think she’s on to me. 😬

Wow, these stories are awful.

I haven't had problems as described, ie I don't recall significant no-shows to events, large or small.

But I have plenty of related gripes.

1. Restaurants - Friday around 2pm I made a reservation for Saturday night at an upscale yet very casual restaurant.I had to leave my credit card. Fifteen minutes later, I called to cancel (the couple we were going with wanted to go somewhere closer). The restaurant said they'd have to call me back. When they did, a few hours later, they acted so put upon!?

2. Restaurant - I am going to lunch with friends this week, and the place requires proof of vaccination and booster. That's different

3. Guests - I have a friend who always comes 10-15 min early (she lives 5 min away). She always says "i figured you wouldn't mind." I do. Very much. Has she noticed that I am usually not ready when she arrives; someone else gets the door or I call out to her. I was raised that, unless you are doing something time sensitive, you never ever show up early, 5-10 min late is good,over 15 requires a call and apology. For a (larger) party, people like to show up "once it gets going" but someone needs to be there to do that. 30min late to a party is not late in my book; more than that I think one should let the host know.

4. Guests - another acquaintance (we work together on a charity) always comes in the wrong door. Our property meanders and there are many places one could enter; not including all the french doors to the pool area, there are probably 5 doors you could enter. Only one entry faces the road and has double doors. Another friend tells me she just wants to look around.

5. Like Roarah, we had annual kids' parties when school ended. The parties were big; each of our 3 kids would invite their own class and/or grade, and the classmate's whole family was welcomed. I used Evites and reminded people,but there were always people the day of calling up asking to come. On top of that, they would being extra kids, even though the evite invited them to bring everyone, they'd just RSVP for 1 and bring 4. To be fair though, many brought gifts, which was totally unnecessary.

6. Thank you cards! If nothing else, I have drilled this into my kids. And not just texts! I accept texts, but TBH for a significant gift I think a note is nicer.

7. I have one book club member who constantly recommends books and then no-shows. She always blames her daughter's sudden illness so I have to pretend I believe that.

8. I have a relative who lives a few hours away. She is always late, and because of that, stops somewhere to eat, even though she knows me well enough to know that I have gone to considerable trouble to prepare a meal. Then she arrives not hungry, while we have all waited . And it is not as though she doesn't like/eat what I make, she eats it all,with gusto. Just clueless about timing.

I've always been tempted, for those chronically late, to give them an earlier time than I give everyone else...

TexanjanaTexarkana, in the case of your friend’s daughter who SHOULD know better but still does not exhibit good manners: she is **acting** like she was raised in a barn!

No thank-you - no more gifts. We recently bought an expensive, personalized gift for our niece that we gave to her when we took her out to lunch for her 40th birthday. No thank you other than what she said when she opened it. Last gift for her. Similar for her sister’s kids birthdays - not even a verbal acknowledgement let alone written. No more gifts for that family. If any of them were at all in need I might feel differently but they’re not. Of course if they were they might be appreciative enough to send a thank you. Though hand written is wonderful I’m cool with a text or email from the younger generation.

On the topic of showing up early (#3 on Mtn’s list), I had an aunt who would always show up at my parent’s several hours earlier than invited for things like Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas dinner. My mother was not a natural hostess, but we had the bigger house and the most central location so big holiday dinners always defaulted to our house. The aunt, Mother’s SIL, always came to ”help” but I never saw her do anything except sit at the kitchen table, drinking coffee and talking to Mother. Mother hated anyone in her kitchen talking to her while she cooked. It made her very nervous and she was already nervous to begin with. Mother asked her to please not come early, but she continued to do it anyway. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Several years ago we invited a couple for dinner. The man was a college friend that I had not seen/kept in touch with for decades, but had recently moved to the area. They asked if they could bring their son, and I said sure. They then asked what we planned to serve and told us that their son didn't eat any of those things. For some stupid reason I revamped the meal to their son's liking, ending up with something far from what I generally like to serve. They arrived without their son, casually telling us he didn't feel like coming.

That couple would never be invited back to my house, Sas!

When my sister remarried, she told her husband that the wedding was an hour before it really was.

Usually she tells him almost everything starts at least 1/2 -1 hour before it actually does and everyone else has to stay quiet about the actual time.

She travels separately from him. Any travel that is scheduled, she gets herself there on time and it is up to him to get himself there on time and if he does not that's his problem.

I would not live like that, but that's how she keeps her sanity I guess.

Re: people who are always late

In more than one couple I’ve noticed the same behavior. One will mostly be ready but the other isn’t, so person 1 starts doing something else (tidy up, make a phone call, etc.). Then person 2 sees that and decides they now have time do something else. Then they are late and blame each other because they both believe THEY were ready and the other person was the delay.

In at least one case, it clearly looks to me - an outside observer - that its a power play, making the other person wait for them makes them feel more important. I don’t understand it and could never tolerate that from my spouse. As friends, I’ve learned to work around it by never driving/arriving with them, and, if need be, ordering a salad or appetizer before they arrive. Once they finally arrive, they’re enjoyable company (and I’m not hangry from waiting 😆).

The RSVP issue has been a problem for awhile, but it has gotten worse. I remember people calling the day of kids parties, sorry that they are late but…. This was in the 90’s. Even my wedding in tge early 90’s there were people that RSVP’d never showed, no reason ever given.

My daughter’s delayed wedding celebration party aka reception is this weekend. It is not huge, a little over 80 were invited. 80 was the maximum for the garden area of the venue that worked well for them. She had to track down about 40% of the RSVP’s these were all close friends or family. There are still a few people that have not responded to the messages she left. At this point, it really does not matter as she has a minimum to meet but if someone knew early on that they were unable to attend, there were others she could have included. She cut quite a few people out that she really wanted to include, to keep to the venue maximum.

Off-topic - DD has had a horrible week with emergencies involving close friends. One of her closest friend’s is in the hospital recovering from a diabetic coma and another very close friend’s husband is in ICU due to a horrible auto acccident. Extra sad for DD being the week of their celebration but we are just thankful that both friends are expected to eventually recover, it was touch and go for awhile.

I got married 20 years and when I read threads like this I stress that I forgot to thank someone for their gift! We kept a spreadsheet to keep track of gifts/notes but gifts get lost in the mail, thank you cards get accidentally thrown out - I always hoped that if a guest did not get a note from me they would tell my mother and she would tell me.

The party scenario is heart-breaking, so much effort goes into thoughtfully entertaining that I would not be surprised if they did not host again.

@jill302 what a week for your daughter! Talk about ups and downs. : ( I am so sorry to hear about her friends, but glad they will both recover. I hope your daughter has a lovely celebration!

Thank you Tina Marie:)