Scaled floor plan will help you get the best advice.

Of course.... sorry. I will post later today. I'll post the entire floor plan and room dimensions.

Here is a floor layout and dimensions. You'll have to forgive me, but Sketchup is giving me a lot of problems - it's just not doing what I want it to do! I intended to provide more measurements in a few areas, but couldn't.

As far as the plan. We angled the peninsula into the kitchen to accommodate 2 stools to keep them out of the traffic path from the stairs. The original doorway into the kitchen was 30", we should have more than that around the end of the peninsula. The area on the peninsula for the 2 chairs is approx 42" long and the depth is approx 30" including a 10" overhang (this allows the peninsula cabinet depth about 20 inches). I know some of these measurements are approximate, but at this point we're trying to get a workable layout first, then finalize exact measurements when the layout is chosen. Cabinet choices, materials such as flooring will also be completed later.

Floor Plan Measurements (before remodel)

Kitchen Plan Measurements (after remodel)

Here is another sketch that might help. This hand drawn sketch has exact measurements for another layout we were considering. The sketch is of the wall between the living room and kitchen only since this seems to be the most challenging to create and decide on. In this layout, the peninsula is straight and made wider to accommodate stools at the end. For some reason we didn't like the flow of this and the peninsula cabinet became narrow and deep (when considering the overhang for the stools) and not very usable. The measurements might help though.

Kudos on learning Sketchup! I still haven't learned any of the 3-d programs. To get the best advice, it would be better to post a plan of the whole room, including anything that can't change (radiator/duct location, utility chase, plumbing, etc.), with all measurements for each wall, window, and door. Label the adjacent rooms and major traffic paths.

In the meantime, these links contain great kitchen planning info:

NKBA guidelines

New to Kitchens? Read me first.

Discussions--Extra-deep counters

Discussions--all drawer bases

Discussions--dishes in drawers

The refrigerator should move to left of dishwasher because it won’t fit on that wall. The refrigerator will need a filler next to the wall in order for it to open, there needs to be space between the stove and the (combustible) fridge cabinet, and even if its not gas, you need room for pan handles, utensils, etc.
Doesn’t seem like there’s room for either seating area as drawn and the angled peninsula is especially in the way. But moving the fridge would give you the space necessary.

emilyam, thanks for your comment about the refrigerator. We considered putting it left of the dishwasher and will consider it again. There's a large picture window directly below that spot and when we installed new trim around that window we noticed some slight sag. Had an engineer out to look at the new window we're installing in the kitchen and some other things, he looked at the lower level window and does not have any concern the slight sag. The spot the refrigerator is in now has a steel beam under it. Again, I don't think moving the refrigerator will be a problem, but trying to avoid if not necessary. With that said, I understand the space on that wall is tight to fit the refrigerator, range and peninsula with seating. Will consider all options though.

I should probably mention that this will be a DIY remodel. We're hiring the Window install (and header) but will be doing most of the work ourselves. More info: not too interested in removing the entire wall, the floor layout is too small for that. Plumbing to stay near original location is preferred. The range location is movable, we also considered a separate cook-top and oven (maybe 27" oven). Seems like everything we do creates another problem. The Range or Refrigerator might have to be moved if there is no other way.

I'm new here.... hope I'm giving enough info. Do I need to provide more measurements than the floor layout and kitchen dimensions posted above? Really hoping for outside perspective on this "general" layout.

To recap: Difficult time finding a way to partially open up the wall between the kitchen and living room and add 2 stools

1) Initially thought we could do just a simple partial wall removal and a straight peninsula with the stools on the living room side - but there's a traffic path from the stairs that would get in the way.

2) second plan was to widen the peninsula and place 2 stools at the end - stools would be in the kitchen (show in the hand drawn sketch in previous post). Maybe this could work, but we came up with option 3 we thought was better.

3) 3rd plan was as posted in the initial post - angled peninsula allows stools to be angled toward the kitchen.

As far as the Refrigerator & Range spacing - we were planning to have a cabinet above and around the refrigerator so there will be a wall next to the stove on one side, a small narrow counter will be installed between the refrigerator and the stove as well. I know it's tight, but actually it's not much different than we have now with our cooktop.

If the consensus is that these are scrap plans, it's OK... I can take it!

I see the other floor plans and kitchen layouts posted here - we just don't have the room sizes some of you have. Doing the best with what we have - and try to capture the beautiful lake views a little more. :)

Another floor plan would be helpful, with all walls measured. Missing measurements include wall to the right, total width of the room. Floor plan should also show other rooms on that floor (but those don’t need to be measured.)

Also answers to these questions:

Is the new window size and location negotiable? Is the size of the new opening fixed (Is there anything in that wall that needs to stay)? Is there another dining area and where? Will it be a new fridge and is it regular or counter depth? Gas stove or electric?

Photos of existing kitchen might also help.

Nice. MN HOME, notice how a straight run of cabinets on the sink wall (no L-shape) frees up space.

Emilyam, to answer your questions:

I uploaded the original floor plan with the added measurements you requested and room labels. This is a 4 level side to side split. So the kitchen, dining room, living room is the entire floor plan. The new window should stay close to where where it is on my remodeling example. Slight changes are OK though. The partial wall opening is also a little negotiable (we adjusted it a little to accommodate the stools and trying to keep the entire range behind the wall - so a little adjustment is OK. The new refrigerator is standard depth (GE27CF) and exact measurements are on my hand drawn example in my previous post. Looking at a 30" gas range (GE Profile). I'll also mention that the counter on the left by the stairway has stools for eating (no cabinets below it)

EDITED: I see I forgot to add the current openings to the kitchen layout. The current opening where the partial wall is to be removed, is currently 30". The opening near the refrigerator is 4' and the space the refrigerator fits into is 33" deep. The new refrigerator is 33" deep (29" up to the door, plus 4" door) (GE29CF) . We'll leave a little space behind it, so in the refrigerator will stick past the opening about 2 inches. Our current refrigerator sticks out about the same and no issues opening and closing the door. But will look at the new fridge in the store again to ensure no obstructions.

Mamagoose, Thank you for creating that plan.... really appreciate it!

Looks very nice! A couple of observations. I've read about the NKBA standards and it appears you're trying to adhere to them based on your layout. Do you think these standards are an absolute, or a guide to follow if possible? In other words, do these standards always apply to older (1950's) tight kitchen spaces?

You’ll probably want to keep the gas line on that wall. How about the fridge moves to the right of the sink? you’d need a pantry between it and the wall.

​One thing to be aware of if you're going to have a plumbing inspection when doing this work, in MN AAVs do not meet code. The vent for the sink and any plumbing that might be below likely runs in that exterior wall next to one of your existing windows. When you put that big window in, will it clear the vent stack? How will you vent the sink in its new location? A loop vent is an option if you have room below the floor to install that. Figured I'd share since I just researched my options for venting with a large picture window above the sink overlooking a lake in MN too! My point is that you may be limited in where you can put that window depending on the plumbing situation. Hopefully your engineer already brought that up.

MN HOME, I try to stay close to the ideal, which is what the NKBA deems most efficient and functional--but in a remodel, especially in an older home, sometimes the choices must be made. My DW is between my sink and range (left side), because I moved the range from the other side of the room, in order to vent it to the exterior. On the right side of the sink, I have only 9" of landing space, because that was the only spot for a door into an addition. In both cases--venting the range and building an addition--I was OK with giving up the ideal, and I've been very happy with those decisions.

It's always good to start with the NKBA recommendations, and decide where you are OK with trade-offs.

Thanks for the comments. It looks like our options are limited due to the limited space and our wants/needs. I get the sense the plan I initially posted isn't a good one - at least no one said they liked it! A little disappointing...

I was really hoping to get comments on the general layout (good? bad? a better plan?), again this wasn't meant to be a final plan by any means. I know the space is tight, but trying to fit everything we need including most of the cabinet space we now have. But again, I understand this is not an ideal floor plan, and that's why this has been so difficult to come up with something that would work and look aesthetically OK.

We'll make a decision soon,and I'l report back. Thanks for the help I did receive here... really appreciate it!

Actually I think a wide galley is a great layout. There’s not a ton of options; you just have to put 2 appliances on the longest wall. I’m still confused about what’s on the living room side, or in the whole living room for that matter. What’s the furniture layout? Knowing that would help with figuring out the peninsula seating. pics would help.

I don't have time to go back and re-read everyone's comments, so I'll just say that the range up against the fridge is not great--especially gas range/wooden fridge surround.

You will instinctively prep on the counter to the left of the sink since it's the closest counter between the sink and range, but the DW is in the prep space. If you move the DW to the right of the sink, it will block the corner cabinets when the door is open, so dishes would need to be unloaded to the counter, then moved to the cabinets--not a huge deal, and that would be my choice, but it adds an extra step. In the plan I posted, the glasses would go in the cabinet above the DW, so the same scenario might take place, unless you have long arms and can reach over the open DW door. I put the other dish storage in drawers next to the fridge, so it's not directly under the prep space.

The short L creates a pinch-point with the angled peninsula. The peninsula looks awkward, especially with the entries, but that might just be on paper--maybe in your space it won't be as bad as it seems.

You mentioned the NKBA guidelines, so keep those in mind--even if you can't follow them to the letter.

Thanks again for the helpful comments. I guess my main goal was to initially come up with some way to open the wall and add a counter for 2 stools, and then "figure out" the rest of the kitchen (exact cabinets and materials, etc) once the wall issue was resolved. I see now that the the "pros" are ahead of me figuring out the full function and comfort of the entire kitchen from the beginning. I'm sure that is the best way to do this.

I guess the angled peninsula is not approved. We first wanted to do something simple like this:

We thought we were all set, until we tried a mock up and found stools would be in the stairway traffic - walks right past this spot. Tried different ways to address it, and eventually came up with the angled peninsula. In searching for examples of the idea, I found a few write ups that stated angled peninsulas are often used to move the seating out of traffic areas, especially on small floor plans and small kitchens. But I also read that some people hate them. I still believe there are times when they are necessary and possibly the only option to accomplish the goal. At this point, we're a little confused and apprehensive now.

As far as the refrigerator and the range next to each other. Right now our cooktop is between 2 cabinet walls with about a 3" counter on either side (pantry on one side, and wall oven on the other). Even though it's not by todays standards, it never bothered much (although we would have liked a counter on one side of the range). Actually my mothers home (1958) has the a very similar setup (cooktop between 2 walls, one side the refrigerator, the other side is the wall oven). She said it wasn't much of a problem. I've seen it in other older homes as well. I understand if people have the space, change it to current standards. Having a counter on 1 side of the range is an improvement for us! Moving these items creates new challenges, so we really have to consider whether it's necessary for us. Finally the last challenge is the large window, that means we lose more cabinet space (as well as the cabinets on the partial wall we're removing). Cabinet space is important to us. So with all of these considerations, we have a real problem coming up with something that will function at least as well as we have now, and aesthetically appealing. No easy task!

We'll consider everything I've learned here and come up with a final plan soon. With all of this in mind, opinions and suggestions are welcome! Again, can't thank you enough for comments.

Please check the installation specs of your stove and your local building official.

Gas range next to combustible fridge surround might not meet safety code, as emilyam suggests. Even if you live in a rural area where safety codes are not enforced, I think that's enough of a safety issue to scrap that plan.

If you also ditch the short L, then maybe the angled counter will work, and if there is no pinch point, one of the stools could move to the short side when in use, making seating more comfortable for both diners. The only time it might be a problem is when the DW door is open (if you put the DW to the right of the sink).

In the plan I posted with the window in the first location, you could use a full height hutch-type cabinet to the right, which would add ap. 16"X 24" extra space for dish storage--or put that cabinet on the perpendicular wall. That would reduce the counter space to the right of the sink, but it would add storage--you need to decide which is more important in that spot. Also, since it's a wet area, another layer of counter material should be the cabinet base, so water doesn't affect the wood of the cabinet. I would put a drawer above the base, so there's space to set down a stack of plates or bowls, without conflict with cabinet doors.

I'm using my DD's laptop, so I can't add illustrations other than links. Check the first pic in this thread, then scroll down for buehl's assessment:Cabinet on counter