A small perinnal bed low growing on the neighbor side a stone pathway with some climbing vines on the house side under planted with some low growing perinnials and or maybe a ground cover? Looks shaded to me so really a few things you could do like lamium, Ivey vine, a littel hosta or Lungwort, Astilbe and of course some Martagoon. (spelling might be wrong on the later) It might to help to know what is intended for the rest of the area. Like what is the plat plan. Also as an after thought Bleeding Heart could be considered. But for sure how do you plan on using the area? Storage for garbage cans? Acsess to the other areas of the yard?

David- I am also considering doing a small side business to see if that's something I want to do before I get too crazy. I looked for your email address but didn't see it. I'm not sure if it had to do with changes that Garden Web is going through. I am trying to find the most cost effective method for growing trees in the container as well. Al's mix calls for more pine bark and less perlite (or others) I might go in that direction to cut down cost on turface, etc esp when I have to grow many trees. Cedar fibers seem to be very attractive alternative to peat moss (5 dollars for 40lbs or 1.5 cubic feet which is somewhat tightly packed in but fluffy and light when opened) I do not have many 5g rootmaker container. They are more of for personal use but I have 75 rootmaker 1g container that I am going to transfer to from rootmaker tray (18 cell that is (3.125" x 3.125" x 4"- fits in 10x20" flat tray). I have no intention of selling trees in the rootmaker container so I will repot them to larger container, probably 3 or 5g Sunleaves white grow bag for sale. They are pretty cheap. I do have those accelerator starter pots as well but a bit messy due to more holes all around. Not sure which one is better at this point. Everything will get transferred to cheap containers for sale. I am all about developing proper root system at least right at the beginning. I think it is okay to grow in the larger regular containers as long as they are sold quickly. I think the large or rather right word 'medium' sized pine bark is fine for 5g or larger. I mixed them with fine pine bark mix and it seemed to drain fast. I have seen this mix at some nurseries. You just have to make sure no fine particles are in the mix. That's probably the key. Where do you get perlite that cheap? I need plenty for seeds to grow in. it would be 50/50 of perlite and screened pine bark (or cedar fiber-another experiment) Which coconut fiber product did you get? I looked at CocoChoice website and I see that they have choices. I have no idea what to get since I've never bought one. How much are they? I emailed them where I could find them up here. Thanks for letting me know about this. It sounds like good alternative to peat moss. I'd be happy to give you montezuma cypress seeds but they all are in the fridge undergoing cold moist stratification but I will get you some next fall if you want. I would love to have Monterrey oak acorns. I looked everywhere for them but I only saw little trees. I have one growing in the backyard. It will be years before I get some acorns from it. I wouldn't also mind Texas Ash and Texas native Bigtooth maple seeds if you ever come across them down there. I can also give you Mexican Blue oak acorns and possibly Canyby-Shumard hybrid oak acorns. It looks like Shumard oak and it seemed to stay green well into late December. They are located in Marble Fall. In 2005 when it was 21*F there during early December and we went there for Christmas. I noticed this red oak with green leaves while pretty much all other red oak have turned brown or lost leaves. Hopefully, they will have plenty of acorns by Thanksgiving... I am sure I missed something. It's hard to keep my thoughts together when I have 2 years old daughter running wild in the house.

Hello again, I know that a zone 9 grower in northern CA uses hardwood mulch, and she likes it. I top dressed some of my hostas with cedar mulch one winter. I lost several so I just never got around to using it in the container. I am not sure how available cedar mulch is up north so that may be one reason we don't hear about it on the hosta forum. Nurseries use soil-less mediums that are based on pine so that may also contribute to the common use up north. They sell a product up there called pine fines, but I have never seen it around here. Pine mulch is cheap, fairly easy to lift in bags, and I have had such good luck with it that I have not branched out much. I have had one case of root fungus this summer, but even with our brutal heat, I have not had any southern blight. The blue hosta you asked about is called Brother Ronald. There is another blue called Blue Jay that I also really like. The blues fade pretty fast in our climate, but I enjoy the spring show. A healty hosta will have a good sized root mass. I am just beginning to get some hostas that are mature, so I can answer how big they get better next spring. I would guess that the root mass is a little smaller that the plant it supports, but not by much. It took two people to lift my three year old Sum and Substance last spring. My daughter commented that I must be doing something right for it to take two people. I do not know what I will do when some of the big hostas outgrow my biggest pots. I have a couple of tree pots the I think are 16 gallon. Most of the utility containers with the rope handles are about 14 gallons, and I just bought a couple of the smaller utility containers that are 10 gallons. I have seen hostas that were root bound, but they do recover quickly. It is a good sign that they have a big root system. Don't worry too much about leaves this time of year. They will come back just fine in the spring. If you ever get to Oklahoma City, there is a nursery called Bob Scott's. They have wonderful display gardens with plenty of hostas, and they have an Eliator that is huge. You will love Earth Angel. It is one of my top ten favorites. It will get big, and the big hostas take 5-7 years to get there. Here is my baby Earth Angel in 07. The rock was there to discourage squirrels from digging. And again in 08 Here it is in 09. It is in the back of the original picture I posted up above. I am already looking forward to nest spring. Good luck with yours!!

leep (like the name): thx for your comments. spa is 7x8 with 6 jets. it really should have been 8 jets as 8 people could easily fit; the 2 depths are 24" and 26" (measured from the top of the coping); by varying the bench height & jet height, you can move around and get jets in diff places on your back. having had it for a few weeks now i think the spa is actually too big for our needs. If we did it again would go little smaller and keep it to a 6 person size but it will prob be good for having friends over etc; while i'm talking lessons learned from the spa: 1) I really like it as far as having one in general. i sit in the spa and watch the kids play in the pool. we went back/forth on if it was worth the money, and so far i am glad we did it. 2) the other thing we've realized we didn't need was the "blower"; we turned it on once and it sounded like a jet engine (if this is "the quietest blower on the market" per the brochure I would be frightened to hear the loudest one), and the jets were enough to blow you across the spa. Maybe if you had 10-12 jets it would be necessary but for our 6 jet setup it is overkill.