Hello Rock Oak and Ianna, I wish everyone was just nice and left everyone else alone unless they were really doing harm. Unfortunately, in my opinion, humans, for whatever reason, although they can be kind, they also can be predatory and cruel, among other nasty traits. I love gardening for so many reasons, not the least is that plants offer me back more than I give them with my tender loving care. In a way, I understand why you both may be thinking that complaining about selectively applied laws is like complaining about the weather... it just happens. From my perspective I don't see this thread as complaining about it but rather about helping me become more aware that this happens all the time, so that maybe I or my family or my friends or my neighbors won't be caught out in a lightning storm as this poor women has been who they decided to pick on with the initial excuse that she was growing a front yard vegetable garden. What happeded to this women could happen to you or your adult children in a much worse fashion. I read about a lady who had her life time home taken from her becasue she owed almost ten thousand dollars in back taxes. She was unemployed. There were over two hundrd and fifty properties in town with the same issue that were not bothered about the back taxes. The feeling is that whe the property was sold or when the person died hey would get their money. What person wants to put another person out on th estreet for society to take care of. But the town officals, at that time, didn't like her. So they took her house and sold it, making her homeless. Plus they took away her only source of income since it was a three family home. The sale paid off the ten thousand dollar tax issue but it also brought the town over eighty thousand dollars in profit. They did not give the poverty stricten woman her eighty thousand dollars, the town kept it. That is morally wrong if not legally wrong. That was really bad weather. But I think human nature can sometimes be controlling to feed the egos of those in power and they will push people around to show who is boss. And yet those in power say they are "public servants". There is a saying, I forget who said it but it goes like this, " bad things happen when good people do nothing" Well I am not very powerful, or connected but at least I can particpate in a discussion that talks about this type of political weather power. I think most people think it won't happen to them or a member of their family. But when it does, they suddenly become an activist about this type of weather. I guess I want my community to be preppers against this type of political weather than seems to just happen. Well tornados just happen and hurricanes just happen, and Nor'easters just happen. Isn't it nice to be aware that that weather can just happen and be prepared for it so one doen't lose what they worked so hard for all their lives or even worse their life or the life of a loved one. Political weather just happens, in my opinion, when good people just gossip about it as entertainment releived that its not happening to them. My personal opinion is that if we all talked about it, then maybe it won't happen as much, becasue it is unconsititional and it does not support the American fundamental legal and moral philosophy of freedom. Sadly, where ever we go in America, our lost of freedom is in our face. When I read about local law officials harassing someone for collecting their own rainwater off their roofs to water their gardens, that makes me understand how vulnerable we all are, especially when an offical will say" well its on the books but we don't enforce it". This is hard to face. Who wants to talk about political weather when we could be laughing and exchanging war stories about what we are going to be doing with all our zuccini. The reality is, soon, if we all don't pay attention to these selective laws, and what personalities have been put in power to decide who these laws are goin gto apply to and who they won't, few of us will have gardens to share zuccini war stores with. The farmers are hurting but since the farmers feed us, if they loose , we loose. It is my opinion that we all need to be at least more aware of this. I just don't see this as complaining. I see this as helping us all pay attention more to what is going on around this country that will soon affect all of us if we all don't start talking about it on a grass root level. My aplogizes in advance if I offended anyone with this post. Deanna, I guess we were actually talking about the same thing. I just misinterpreted your point. I wholly agree with you. Blake

No gophers in MA, but many woodchucks which are MUCH larger. Voles like eating bulbs and tubors. Chipmunks borrow holes, but are usually nut or berry eaters. Mice, grey or brown like bird seeds, and nest in soft things like stuffed lawn furnature. Rabbits love chewing on any greens of any kind. Of course deer also can even eat whole peaches off the trees. Squirrels are usually nut eaters too, as they also like taking bird food, especially sunflower seeds. Around here, there are also a few red squrrels, lots less compared to the grays. Also a few black squirrels. I have one black with a bad eye, only sees me when itse facing in the right direction. When I planted my saffron crocus, I made a big 1/4 holed wire basket with 6 inch tall sides to prevent burrowing. Also added abrasive pellets that the diggers hate to dig through. This stuff surrounds the crocus bulb area. My ffruit trees also have 1/4 inch wire screening as a wrap around at soil level. It helps prevent girdling by rabbits, which can chew all the tender bark off trees very fast. I also have moles out there, but they seem to go after worms mostly.

kt, Glad to hear I'm not alone in my driving aversions. Yah know, ya can learn something about yourself every day. I never really thought about it, but scent _is_ important in my gardens. Maybe that's why I grow so many herbs? As for Roman chamomile, I think that in warmer climates it could be invasive. Mine usually dies back every year (although it stays green well into the winter) and comes up from the roots and a few seedlings around the mother plant. It has never spread out in to the rest of the garden. I kind of wish it would, because it would be a nice groundcover under the roses. The leaves themselves look very light and feathery. Hey, maybe I should buy some more..... I agree that the herb garden is rather full, even with some plants in pots on the wall and others in the walkway. But, I tell ya, working in that garden on a summer morning will be real multi-sensory pleasure. kt, if your design software is a no-show, I can take a crack at mapping out an herb garden in Excel based on these elements. I also have a house design package that I used for the additions this year. It has a garden function that I haven't used. It doesn't look to be optimized for curved/circular gardens, since it is primarily for foundation plantings, but I can give it a try over the holiday and see if I can produce something useful. Like you, I have my entire family coming up for our traditional New England Thanksgiving. My 82-year old parents, sister, brother-in-law, six kidlings from three to 18 and their dog, will be invading on Wednesday. On Sunday, when they all leave, I also have to head down to Newark Airport to fly to Brazil for a week long business trip. Yes, I plan to sleep for the entire flight down. So, if I disappear from the forum again for a few days, ya'll know why. Just in case anyone drops out before me to prepare for a similar invasion (that means you, kt), have a Happy Thanksgiving!!! narcnh (who snuck outside in his jammies while typing this just to crush and smell some Roman chamomile)

A forest will choke out a thicket, I often recomend that fruit and nut trees be planted on purpose, so that we lock up carbon and produce food for ourselves, and chocke out the brush plants that are unpleasent to walk through. When you go on a hike along a tail it seems that you are always either bordered by clearing/lawn or by a thicket, but once you break through that thicket you can useually travle quite quickly and easily and have plenty of space to move about. The main reasonfor removing trees and brush historicly wasn't to make things more pleasent, it was to open up land for agricultural use. with a field we can grow staple cerial grains, or legumes, or use it as pasture for animals, while some trees may provide seasonal food for some critters it takes alot of work to survive off of them year round (and trust me when I say thing, willow does not taste that good) . Our modenr day lawns were not contrived from thin air, you need to look at were they came from to understand how they fit in. Lawns are popular mainly in the south (sure, lots of people like them, but in the south they are sick for them) the south had a large portion of its caucasian inhabitants come from scotland (the southern drawl is very closely related to the scots accent) in schotland they have huge green field that are kept down to a few inches all summer long, this is because there is alot of rain and people raise sheep. Now, in the south there isn't as much water in the summer, and there aren't as many sheep, but people still liked the look of home so a lawn with mowers and irrigation is what they came up with.