Hi mongo- Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that the small pump and loop would be best, but I think too difficult at this point. Here's the situation: bathroom is over a VERY shallow crawl space (used to be about 5" between joist and dirt, but when we gutted the space my DH spent many sweaty days shoveling the CLAY soil out through a hole we cut in the wall. Ugh!) The only access to underneath the floor would be if we removed the tub and cut out the subfloor. Even then, there's only about 18-24" under there. The supply used to run in the exterior walls, and froze last winter. We (DH) rerouted the supply through the attic space (one story home). He ran it right along the sheetrock, and insulated the cold lines with that grey split stuff against summer condensation. Then he created a sort of "tent" or "tunnel" over both sets of pipes with that aluminum faced bubble-wrap type of insulation. All foamed tightly in place. On top of that is two layers of pink finerglass batt. It's certainly better insulated than it was before. Pipe is 3/4" PEX. At the interior bathroom wall, it turns down to supply shut-off valves accessible in the bathtub control panel. From there it runs under the bathroom floor, on the warm side of rigid insulation foamed tightly to the joists. I actually just got off the phone with a tech guy from one of the tankless on-demand companies. He says that the tankless option is do-able, but we'd need such an upgraded model that it wouldn't be worth it for the 30 seconds or so we'd save waiting. The only place to put it would be in the closet by the shut-offs (since that's the closest access we have). And since there's no way to add it to the sink-only plumbing (I don;t think: see below) it would have to be sized for the GPM the shower demands, otherwise even when it's not heating the water, since the hot water is running through it, it would reduce the flow at the shower too much. Since we have a showerhead AND handshower that sometimes run simultaneously, that would not do. And the higher GPM models are just too pricey. I was thinking I *might* be able to swing $125 or so by next fall if I saved. not $500 certainly. Our bath remodel and some medical emergencies have really drained us, I'm nervous about even buying fuel oil for the rest of the winter! The only space and access at the vanity itself is a 4" space between the wall and the back of the drawers. The vanity is all drawers, and was custom made, so we can't/won't modify it. I don't imagine any of the cheap heaters are like 3" deep? So, I will probably have to learn to live with it. Not a huge big deal. The shower and tub take very little time to warm up (higher GPM I guess) so its really the sinks that are the issue. We'll probably just live with it. Thanks!

We have hot water heat in our home here in Syracuse NY, winters are freezing.... we put radiant floor heating in our new bath (this part of our project is new construction)... the cost wasn't too bad as it went in with construction and as part of our new furnace... we are using toe kick heaters to supplement heat in the other parts of our remodel that aren't new construction. From all our research I was given the impression that the electric pads for under tile take a while to heat up... we chose to skip it as it seemed like a lot could go wrong with those we had a heat/ fan thing in our old master bath that worked really well in a small space.... a little noisy but it was worth it in the winter

The trend now days is towards infloor heat. Infloor heating systems operate at 120 degrees as opposed to 180 degrees for Radiant baseboard heat. Because infloor systems work at 120 degrees, you can use a condensing boiler which has efficiencies which compare to forced air systems. Some claims are up to 98% efficient, but 94% is typical. Your highest efficiencies come when you can condense the combustion gases which is impossible with a system that operates at 180 degrees. Uponor (Formerly Wirsbo) was the innovator from Sweden. When you are near a cold surface such as a wall, you will feel colder than the room temperature. When you have a warm floor, you will feel warmer than the room temperature. Infloor heat is great to walk on with bare feet and great for kids to play on the floor. Stay warm! Dan Martyn Here is a link that might be useful: UPONOR

I can;t argue with the fact that replacing an old boiler with a more efficient one can cuts costs considerably. If natural gas is available, there is nothing else to consider. If not, then relative fuel costs of electricity, propane and fuel, as well as climate conditions (for heat pumps) need to be considered. When faced with high fuel prices in an old home, the biggest bang for the buck can be in improvements in the home envelope and that , as Jim pointed out, should be done first if possible. If you get heat loss low enough, fuel cost can fade as an isssue. Jim, you have a condensing boiler? Can you be specific? Did you have trouble with new, lower temperature, flue location? How are your return water temps running? Do you have a lot of heating zones? What type of heat emitters are you using? If your improvements caused short-cycling, you might consider a buffer tank. I recently saw an interesting commentary on two-pip vs. four -pipe plumbing for buffer tanks. If set up right, they can make larger improvements in condensing boiler efficiency than if set up without condensing in mind.