Instead of a breakfast bar, you can just do a raised um...well, a stubby wall capped neatly with countertop material. That's if you want to keep more of a barrier which sounds like what your DH wants.

(It's much more popular these days to keep a counter all one height. I prefer hiding my mess though!)

IMO, as long as you still have room for a dining table there is nothing wrong with not configuring the additional counter space as a breakfast bar.

No. You need very inch in the narrow living room .

You need permission/ structural engineer verification, and i doubt the entire wall can go . Perhaps upper half with support. Contractor and KD ON site is recommended.

I think you will miss that wall.

Right now one of the sofas could be almost against the wall.

No one would put furniture backed up to an island, even three or four feet would feel close.

Add the counterpace into the dining room if necessary but don't open up the kitchen to the living room.

How can you even remodel an apt.? I don’t think even you did you could fit tit

I don't see why you would want a breakfast bar: wouldn't it reduce usable counter space?

If you have a bar how would you arrange your furniture?

Why would you want a bar so your back is to the TV and the view? Why would you install it if you don’t want it? Most of all, why do you want to demolish a wall that hides the kitchen mess and mitigates some of the noise while you are cooking ?

I do not think yo will gain anything by removing the wall and no you do not need to have seating at an island but 29 inces walkway behind a sofa is pretty tight .Where would you then put the TV and the fridge and the pantry .

We purchased a coop this year and spent an arm and a leg putting up the kitchen wall that the previous owners removed to make their open plan kitchen. We gained double the cabinet space with a wall there instead of their island.

Have you spent serious time in an apartment your size with an open floor plan? If so and you really enjoy it then go for it. We hated it. Open plans are one thing in a medium to large home or a loft space, but in an apartment, an open kitchen feels like it is in your lap. It looks like you do not have an externally venting hood - as so few apartments do. The cooking grease and smell goes everywhere. Your dirty dishes feel like they are in the middle of your sofa space.

Regardless of whether you take down the wall, I'd recommend shifting the L of your two sofas. Have the one sofa on the wall where you intend to place your TV and put your TV on the long wall that extends into the living room from the foyer. Also, what do you intend to do with the space in front of that large window? It looks like a stunning view that is under utilized.

Wow, am I glad I posted here! All the different opinions are really helpful.

The entire wall can go because there is a structural post in the kitchen, represented by the black square. It's hidden behind cabinetry. Alterations have to be approved by the management and the co-op board of managers, but we had our meeting with the board, and although the broker told us to minimize our reno plans, it sounded like they were used to it, but they try to keep the renovations down to two at a time to minimize disruption.

The reason I want to remove the wall and add the island is for more counterspace, and also so that you can talk to someone in the living room without exiting the kitchen. We also thought it would make the room feel big and airy, and you'd be able to see the view from the kitchen and foyer. Right now there are two 24" wide workspaces, and one tiny one next to the post. After placing the toaster oven and coffee maker, my only workspace will be what we add in the dining area. (Maybe that's enough?) I didn't mention that the kitchen is dark and my husband says it's claustrophobic. But maybe we can open up the stub walls a little to let more light in.

Kendra, I have not spent time in an apartment this size with an open floor plan. There is at least one other resident with this layout who removed that wall (I saw pictures online) but it will be really hard to try find out their name and number, make friends and visit before we draw up the plans because we don't live there yet. But you've given me a lot to think about! I feel you on having to re-do what the previous owners took away. In our case the previous owners removed two walk in closets and the surrounding parquet flooring in the foyer and outside the bedrooms.

The view is the reason we are buying this place. The table will be in front of the window/door, and I agree that a different arrangement of furniture might be best. But we can figure this out after we move.

This apartment is an exact mirror image of ours. You can see part of the structural post on the right side of the first picture. I don't know what's to right of it. Does this pic change any minds? Or does it reinforce the idea that we should leave the wall intact?

Whomever did all the work, and failed to unify flooring ? Got bad advice !!

I think the photos reinforce my opinion to keep the wall, maybe you could some kind of opening in it though for conversation.

If the back of the island were a wall, even if it was a pony wall, you could put furniture against it. but you will not put furniture against the back of the island.

These pictures are taken with the Stretchy Realtor Camera and they are optimally cropped:

The corner of the LR is right at the left-hand edge of each photograph.

You want two sofas and viewing distance to the TV in 13 feet wide and if you want a usable breakfast bar, you want it in about 10 feet wide.

There is a reason they are showing this apartment completely unfurnished, without even virtual staging where you can cheat the sizes of the furniture down a bit.

The Stretchy Realtor Camera can make even a Tudor City Studio look fairly big.

Where are you putting the fridge? maybe im missing it in the new plan.

Lacking any context, this is probably not as attractive as the open peninsula look, but the context is that what is shown is your only living space and you need to optimize furniture placement.

Sheila, your husband is correct, the kitchen is claustrophobic but there are many ways to fix that other than turning the TV wall into an island. A few questions and thoughts:

1. Can you remove the stub walls? They block a lot of light coming into the kitchen from the large end window. They appear non-structural. It will make the kitchen so much less claustrophobic.

2. The counters, range and dishwasher, cabinets, backsplash, floors, and lighting are all super dark. Whether you are doing an entire kitchen reno or not, you can make the space much lighter with strategic choices. Installing lighter countertops, better lighting, and a different backsplash will open it up a lot.

I'm very claustrophobic in general. When we put back the wall and turned our open floor plan into a galley I was very aware of wanting the space to feel light and bright. We worked with a great lighting designer. Here is a pic. (Our reno is only 75% complete so excuse the extreme mess. Cabinets were installed Friday. Awaiting our panel front fridge, which will sit flush with lower cabinets.)

On to the layout, TV wall, and maximizing your view.

3. I suspect you live up the river from me and have great Hudson views as I do. We too have two sofas for TV watching and placed the table by the window, where we spent so very much time enjoying the river and view across.

Here's my super unskilled drawing of a possible layout leaving the TV wall, removing stub walls, and having the counter extend not only beyond into the dining room on the sink side, but it can also extend on the TV wall side as well.

4. I have seen this in other apartments in my building where they kept the galley wall but extended the counter beyond it for a half open, half closed kitchen. Here is a pic of one from zillow.

Congrats on your new purchase!

Kendra, we almost neighbors! Our new apartment is in the Spuyten Duyvil section of the Bronx. After reading the thread this morning I wanted to keep the TV wall. Then we went up to the apartment and met with a contractor and the realtor (we don't close until January) and the realtor thought the island was a good idea and would also increase the value. The living room seems bigger in person than in the diagram, so I was leaning toward island again. Kendra, the realtor also suggested your idea of extending the counter just like your diagram. I had been hoping to have more LR space by keeping the table in the kitchen area, but my husband wants it where you show it in your diagram. We left the contractor with a few different possibilities, but not that one. I am going to send him your "unskilled drawing", if you don't mind. You did a great job with your kitchen-- it is light and bright and you have a lot of counter space. It is bigger than our 7.5' x 7.5' existing kitchen.

Alicia, I didn't show the fridge placement. If we make an island I think we would put the fridge to the right of the sink in the new extended kitchen in the dining area.

Palimpsest - What is the "open peninsula look"? I am really new at this. I haven't done renovations before. You're right that the corner of the LR are just outside the photo and this is one of those "stretchy realtor photos". I had to look up "pony wall", and it turns out that the contractor suggested it today. We don't need or want the breakfast bar anymore -- this is an island/no island debate now, but the contractor said that if we make an island we should leave the pony wall for electrical and flooring reasons. The problem then becomes the column/post. To wrap the island around it, the counter has to extend at least 6 inches from the wall or it won't look right. If we don't wrap the island, it will end at the column which could look strange.

Please, feel free to use my low-rent drawing. Spuyten Duyvil is beautiful and such a fun name to say. Yes, we are a stone's thow away. I'm near Ft Tryon Park in Washington Heights. If you have a good experience with your contractors, I'd love to get their info.

While my kitchen is 3 feet longer than yours, it is only 7'8" wide. Light surfaces and bouncing light around makes a huge difference. If you place your fridge to the right of the sink, it will chop up your counter space, block the window light, and contribute to a small feel, just as the stub walls do now. Can you put the fridge where the stove is and move the stove to the right of the sink? Ask your contractor and building.

When do you close and when do you intend to start construction? We had a month in between. Though we were only here on the weekends during that month it was incredibly helpful to get a realistic idea of how we felt in the space and how we wanted to use it. If you can do the same, I suggest it.

We had a folding table and two chairs that we moved around the space. The window was a magnet and entirely changed our layout. We also scooted it around to imitate a countertop and approximate the feel of our sofas. Everything is so different in person with 3D objects. Not being able to get certain pieces of furniture through the bedroom door also changed things.

We were moving from a 3 story, 5 bed house into this 2 bedroom apartment and in the end, having no room for a china cabinet, limited closet space, and no basement storage, putting up a wall and having as many kitchen cabinets as possible was a major reason to go with a galley kitchen.

I cannot stress enough to ignore your realtor and do what you love in the space for the time you are using it. Our realtor and multiple contractors encouraged us to knock down a kitchen wall in our old house. We refused and ignored all of the experts. When we sold our house got four offers in two days, whereas others on our street sat on the market. People commented that our kitchen was a selling point. Yes, our kitchen with a wall between it and the dining room. Go with what feels right and is practical for you in the space.

Also, try to find pics of kitchens with islands that have columns in the middle to get a feel for the look.

Kendrah, That's a major downsize move you're making. We're moving from a 1 BR on the LES to a 2 BR. I am hoping it will be our forever home but I'm also trying to consider the resale value of our alterations, just in case.

We will be closing sometime in the first half of January. Before we start work we have to decide on a kitchen plan and it changes every day. I think it will be much longer than a month for us, unfortunately. It's been hard to get call-backs from contractors. The guy we just met with was someone we emailed about a month ago.

About the fridge - I was thinking we would move it next to the sink only if we created the island. But everything is in flux. Initially I thought the fridge was big enough for us (it's just the two of us) but now my husband says it's not. It's about 9 or 10 cu ft with more freezer space than we need and less refrigerator space than is ideal. It's shallow, maybe 25" deep (just a guess based on a fridge search I did for our current apartment). Anything bigger is going stick out quite a bit further. I looked at a lot of fridges for our current apartment and the so-called "counter depth" ones are about 26 or 27" deep or so and require a few inches for air flow in the back. We have to find a fridge that's bigger but still shallow enough to fit in a 7.5' wide kitchen. The alternative is to put it next to the window where my husband said he would never put a fridge. Maybe we should hire a designer like normal people do!

Kitchen, tv ,seating, who lies down who does not and where to eat...........inches don't lie

You actually need more wall...

Get a KD a designer at the very least. You can make a good looking kitchen......but the entire entry of this condo leaves one wanting for what to do with it. All complicated by a fixed post. Is what it is.

Not every single residence, condo or two story colonial, is meant for an island.

Entries are fast space. One doesn't hang around in it. Do you HAVE to see through the kitchen on entry? Maybe not. Basically, condo's such as this are designed around those for whom eating IN is less a factor in their lives. They tend to be about empty nests, and freedoms form kids and cooing. Or an earlier phase of life, and no kids to consider.
A shallow U ....the tiny dots peninsula.....all depend on your cooking and your storage needs and habits. You will have to pick a poison in inches devoted to every aspect.

PS...... You CAN get fridge drawers. Sub zero : ) Ka ching. Might be a solution to the fridge issue,

A contractor can tell you if your design is possible to execute. He is NOT your designer. He's your tech. But walls, no walls u shallow u, peninsula, high low etc ? ......get help.

Your drawings need more detail of the existing kitchen INCHES/ cabinets /apps within this 21 x 21 space. Pretty certain an entry closet bit the dust on my plan with theft of foyer depth. But ....there is a pretty dead tv wall.. so possibilities exist within simple framing.

Could you steal some space from the foyer? It looks like you could gain 2 feet there.

I stole two feet from the foyer, just above............ see the 1/4 inch diagram

Two points about fully open concepts to consider as you look at all the other ideas presented here: 1) if you are more of a neat person, it might drive you nuts that any unclean dish, drying cup, or other of the usual kitchen stuff will feel like it is cluttering the entire great room. A partial wall or higher counter can offset that. 2) Especially true if you are in the house more during COVID - a wide open plan can make you feel like you are constantly living in a single room. Like you truly never leave the one space. Again, some of the alternatives others have provided can offset that. I hope these are helpful perspectives. I offer them as someone who has lived in wide open city apartments and some that have slightly more walls. For me, more walls - just a few - was much more livable for real life and not just magazine-like photos. Best of luck!!

Wow Jan, your drawing is excellent and has given me more ideas. Some person long ago removed a huge walk-in closet from the foyer and replaced the flooring with tile which we are going to replace with wood. They also "un-ensuited" the master bedroom and removed a large closet there as well, so there is now an 8 x 10 area with doors on every wall, no windows, and carpeting that we have to take up and patch the wood where the closet and wall used to be. Last night I was watching "beachfront bargain hunt" and was reminded of how renovations in NYC cost easily 3X what they cost everywhere else in the country. (Unless those shows lie about the cost?) Once we find out what the floors will cost we'll know the kitchen budget.

About the building it is a mix of families, singles and empty nesters. There are 1, 2 and 3 bedroom apartments. I think the kitchens are typical for a 1955 luxury building, when kitchens were where the servants worked. There are even several maid's rooms on the ground floor where some of the servants lived. This building is one of the last of an era when servants' quarters were planned for. But I digress

I think a lot of people converted the vestibule/entry into a kind of separate formal dining area back in the 1960s and 70s. It was an entry most of the time, but they needed a space for a table and chairs to be pulled out as needed. Some of my old decorating books and Architectural Digests show stuff like this, and sometimes when a time capsule Coop in Manhattan comes onto the market you see the vestiges of this.

Believe it or not, I am doing something similar in my house but kind of in reverse. There is a smallish room right inside the front door marked as dining room on the plans. But no coat closet or storage on the first floor whatsoever. I am actually making it an entryway by adding closets and separating it off a bit, but keeping it big enough that it can hold a table and chairs for 6-8 under tight conditions. Most of the time there will be no table in the middle and a bike and such, but you know, double and triple duty. My neighbors completely opened their floorplan, I am actually going to be closing mine up a little more, and I think mine will work better than theirs, really.

We keep looking at studio coops on the East side, as prices drop and we now have family on LI and so forth (Like tiny Tudor City sized stuff) and I think even the best of those have some sense of not being just one big bedroom even if it's just an alcove or the floorplan has a bend in the entry way or there is a little bit of wall somewhere.

Palimpsest - I think now is a good time to buy! I do see a lot of dining area/entry way combos that are actually in new construction. The house I grew up in was built in 1925 and had one tiny closet on the first floor. Also a TINY kitchen. I love pre-war buildings though. It's one of the things I didn't get on my check list, but that's okay.

Yes, many people in our building use their foyer as a dining space - or they put a wall up and carve it into a teeny foyer and tiny bedroom. The lights in our foyer are off center in the open space because it used to be divided into two rooms and the lights are centered on what were the two rooms. Every inch counts.