Ashley (just sent you an email), We only live a couple hours apart and we see the same trees at big box and nurseries. You're probably seeing "ultra" on the Pacific Groves trees, right? Some are in bags (bareroot) at various places and some in the fiberpot containers (Lowes). If so, you can drop the term "ultra" and just consider it dwarf. Dwarf and semi-dwarf are what you're aware of: "regular trees on lower vigor rootstocks". These are prolific at nurseries and big box stores alike. Genetic dwarf, aka Miniatures or "true dwarf" are more rare, they are "dwarf trees on whatever (typically regular sized) rootstock". I think you already understand stocks especially how dwarf stocks ideally encourage fruit at younger age (early bearing) and retain a heavier fruit set (precocious). Each stock is different in various properties like size reduction, early bearing, preciousness, disease resistance, soil tolerance, and so forth. The rootstock is *mostly* what makes dwarf and semi-dwarf so small -- the lower vigor. The scion of certain varieties can be somewhat dwarfing and so can their tolerance of summer pruning. It ALL depends on variety, rootstock, and growing conditions. Thus why I've spent countless hours researching the various stocks and varieties before I go buying and planting gobs of them in my yard. Take the Babcock peach, very common. It can be grafted onto Lovell as full sized, on Citation is considered semi-dwarf, on Pumiselect called dwarf (PG calls it Ultra) but Babcock will never be a miniature (genetic dwarf). Just as Necta-Zee (another newer genetic dwarf) will never be a semi-dwarf or full sized tree. The mini's are very small, though their size differs based on variety, but many are 3 feet tall (unpruned) after 2 years old in the ground, whereas the PG ultra-dwarf could be like 6 feet by then. LE Cooke (near Visalia) also produces miniature trees, but I'm not sure the volume since I've only found a couple local nurseries that have ever had any -- and those nurseries don't plan to stock them anymore. The folks at LE Cooke have not responded to my inquiries. Nevertheless, they have an awesome website with cool photos of their genetic dwarfs. Here is a link that might be useful: Take a look at LE Cooke's Site

Lapins, Stella, Black Gold... Be prepared for possible early spring frost/freeze problems (they like to bloom early) and fruit that splits (too much rain around ripening time). Animals also love them, as do insects. I've got several on Gisela 5(i think) and they are roughly 7ft tall with no pruning after 3 years. You don't really say if you want sweet or sour. Some of the sour are on the sweet side of things... although i don't think they can compare to the sweets quite yet.

Harry, Thanks for the help. I am going to skip the rosigold for now. I do worry about it finishing its ripening indoors or possibly blooming here inNov-Dec and having a hard time with the fruit holding. I know next year wont be such an issue. I think it wikk between glenn, carrie, and nam doc mai. I had said before that i didn't want the nam doc mai but I am warming up to it. The glenn turned me on after seeing pugs and reading the fruit description. Then there is carrie. How would you rank those three, and would pickering be any better then the three I listed? Carrie turns me on because it is a julie seedling. The description makes my mouth water but I have herad many great things about pickering. Maybe I should just wait a little and try them if possible but I just want to get them in my house and get them growing. My mentality is the sooner I get them the sooner they will fruit. After rereading some posts here I am afraid I will have to remove any fruit that julie holds. I say this now because it isn't activly blooming yet, it will be another story after the julie blooms. LOL!! Andrew

I was at a local four winds yesterday and found no stock of any true dwarf eureka. I saw a buddha's hand true dwarf at OSH and that was as close as I found. I'll call four winds tomorrow to see if they can order one for me. Just found this remark on four wind's site. Not sure what they mean by that but doesn't look promising. Citrus trees purchased through our mail order website are all grafted on dwarf rootstocks that are perfect for container growing. If planted in the ground dwarf trees can be expected to reach “Semi-Dwarf” size – up to around 16 feet in height, depending upon variety. In a pot, the dwarf trees will stay much smaller, especially with judicious pruning. Standard size citrus trees, available at California nurseries, are best suited for growing in the ground and can be expected to get much taller – up to 25 feet, depending on variety. Be sure to provide more space in the ground for standard size trees. Generally, a Dwarf tree needs an 8-10 foot diameter space, while a Standard tree should be provided with a larger growing space – up to 15 feet in diameter.