Marie -- thanks for that article. I have long despaired of buying truly hardy mums locally. My Yankee thrift bemoans the failure of the non-hardy ones my local nurseries offer! I have had one red one for more than 15 years, which I never prune, so it is quite carefree in its style. I rather like the casual look. But I would love to find online suppliers of the kinds of hardy mums in the article. Off to start searching {for next year}!

Yes, thank you Marie for this indepth article! I've loved mums since I was just a kid, both the the blooms and the unique fragrance of them, foliage and all. A favorite of mine is 'Morden Cameo', it can be in bloom in July even way up here in the north. Though yes, mums are touchy and despise wet ground or winter wet and never seem to last very long before I'm again having to replace them and they're not so easy to come by, but hard to resist when I do!

What ive found:

Bluestone has one of the biggest collections of old and new. they are reliable

Avant Gardens has Wills Wonderful! they are reliable

theres two in Pennsylvania: Goeff’s or Goff’s plants and another and i dont know if they do mail order

a few big places carry Mammouth Mums if thats the kind you want

its the old fashioned ones i covet and they are really hard to find

theres a nearby nursery that has just a few each year. . Around here a couple of people planted masses of Cambodian Queen. stunning but fragile in heavy fall rains

msybe we can set up an exchange for rooted cuttings. next spring. i have about 4.

sorry for terrible typing

marie

Very kind of you Marie, over the years I've made several exchanges with Gardenweb buddies, I wish there was free trade of plant material over the Canada / US border, but I understand why there isn't. Sorry, I should have mentioned of being in Canada. As for coming across hardy early flowering mums, just a sprinkle are to be found here and there. Other perennials are a different matter and most are easy to find especially via mail order. Autumn frosts arrive early to my part of the world, so yes, early blooming mums are a necessity.

Marie, do you have photos of your mums, love to see if you do! Thanks!! :)

St. Tropez. Survived one winter here in zone 5 but flowers very late. Just started blooming last week and tomorrow we have a low of 25 coming.

King's Mums has lots of cultivars and info.

rweigand, I agree about asters. And I have several. However they are rabbit fodder in my garden and most get ugly naked legs by September. They are also finished blooming by now. I saw one- maybe called Big Blue- that looks promising. Fuller growth and later bloom.

The mums I like are the single flowered and attract many insects. Venus was covered with small flies yesterday. There are usually bees dozing on Cambodian Queen in the morning.

Other worthy singles I've grown are sheffield pink & yellow, Will's Wonderful.

And these will bloom until hard frost. The asters are long gone by then.

I think there's a place in the garden for eye candy, like the double and decorative mums. Life's too short and too hard to deny ourselves the pleasure of looking at flowers that appeal to us, even if the particular variety isn't contributing to the insect world. It really is a harmless pleasure.

Mehrin, that's a really nice bloom, too bad it's sooo late, here the frosty nights have been with us awhile and the gardens now all prepped for winter. There's something about this time of the year that I really like when the leaves have fallen and the low angle of the sun is streaming through the windows and my garden work for the most is done for the year and only a few things to round up and tuck away.

Rwiegand, yes, asters are great, especially the native species and some being "tame" enough to use in the garden setting without them spreading too vigorously about. I use to live on a country road lined with asters of a desirable species that often I thought to go and dig some, I mean these were nice and variable as well.

Marie, I agree, I think gardening would be a bit boring without double flowers. I once had dug a single wild rose from a pasture area and transplanted it to my garden. Well, one in a million chance that full species rose had went and sported to a double form that I named and a buddy has been utilizing in his rose breeding work.

Bumped this up because there's still time to order "real" mums like

Sheffield Pink, October Glory, Will's Wonderful,Hannah's Double ...

Go to Avant Gardens website.

I’ve had problems with mums for seven or eight years now. Of my 4 Sheffield Pink, one is left and barely any size at all. I’m surprised it even came back this year. I’ve tried Clara Curtis and if they survive one winter that’s the best I can do. Even one of my four Raydon’s Favorite asters has died and the others are just getting smaller. I’ve been really puzzled as to why these garden staples struggle so much in my garden.

This year I had a thought and I’d love some responses. This area of the garden was finished by a wonderful stone mason, who brought in loam and compost. For the rest of the garden I did it myself, and the soil was SO BAD I rototilled in significant amounts of compost and peat, I think loam, too. When I dig in the mum/aster area the soil always feels like it does have more clay. I’m wondering if it is too much clay. Ideas? Do they have to have REALLY well-draining soil? If I try again I’m going to really amend with peat moss.

I NEVER prune asters or mums for winter. The mulch was thick at first but then on the thin side for a while. This area gets some really strong late fall and early spring winds that that I think also blow mulch around as they deposit lots of leaves in the area. Winter winds are usually from the opposite direction, but in late fall and early spring when the winds are switching directions, this area can become a wind tunnel, but only on sporadic days.

I couldn’t imagine EVER dividing my mums because each spring I’m hoping they come back stronger. As they struggle through the years they do die out a bit in the middle. What should I do? I’d REALLY love to have wonderful single-flower hardy mums here. I wanted to order from Bluestone, but I have to figure out why they’re dying first. I would LOVE some help. I haven’t had much luck online with specifics that might address my problems.

Bumping this up because New England gardeners dont have to accept supermarket mums as their only choice for fall color.

There are a couple dozen PERENNIAL mums to grow- graceful colorful and well suited

to NE gardens.

after you resd the article i recommend the Avant Gardens Website which has a collection of mums most of which are classic singles. thet are scattered through out thr catalogue

I used to grow a couple of what I always called pyrethrums - deep pink daisies, with finely cut foliage. These always did well in my thin soil...I can't recall what eventually happened to them but, thanking you for the reminder as there are quite a few daisies which do manage to survive in a dry and sunny garden. I do have a few very old fashioned, late blooming 'Empress of China' which deserves more care and consideration (but by November, I am getting a bit fed-up with the gardens)

Funny I see this thread as just the other day I chopped back our 3 pots of perennial mums. I always look forward to seeing them in bloom in September/October or even November. (I just dont like that these pots with only foliage take up "valuable" full sun locations.)

Trying to remember where i saw empress of china for sale

in fact i may have owned & lost it once

rouge do you know the names of yours?

deanna if you never divide them dont they get all woody in the middle?

Empress of China is a wonderful mum in Northern Virginia; it grows to shrub like proportions. The Chelsea chop hardly slows it down. Mine came from Select Seeds.

I don't divide my Sheffields and the center doesn't get woody. They get trimmed close to the ground each spring so the center growth is fresh each year. My soil is heavy clay (acidic) and we receive plenty of winter precipitation so I'm growing my mums on a dry slope.

Another mum-lover here but also another gardener who has trouble keeping them going in my garden! I have grown both the store, impulse-buy-in-fall pots, and spring-planted hardy mums.

The fall-purchased potted mums used to do quite well for me, coming back quite vigorously for several years. I always figured, what the heck? Might as well plant them and see what happens. And for several years I had mums that returned for a couple of years (5-6 years). But I think now that they force these plants to be ready for sale in July, (in the old days we bought them in late September, October - can't find any by that time any more!) they just don't seem to have the same vigor and hardiness that they once did so I don't usually bother planting them any longer.

I've had almost less success with spring-planted mums. The first year they do okay for new plants, the second year they come back, I cut them back and they either die or struggle. Then I decided to live with mums in August and didn't cut them back. They did slightly better but still petered out over the years (like 2-3 years).

So I am currently a mum-less gardener lol. I started some from seed last year (winter of 2022) (thanks Kato!!) but after I planted them out last year, I couldn't find them this spring (sorry Kato!!) Every year I debate whether to try again but usually end up spending my limited budget on more reliable things.

:)

Dee

And i dont blame you. wouldnt it be nice to have a next door neighbor with whom you could trade plants, such as Sheffied Pink and October Glory?

However, that's assuming the neighbor can grow them well enough to have extras :-(

I don't know how many times I've bought Clara Curtis. At least three, and I'd buy it again if it didn't cost a fortune.

The only real luck I've had with a mum was a pink one that I got at one of the Conn. plant swaps. I think it came from the carnivorous plant guy, Wild Bill. It's dying out a bit now, after actually showing up on the other side of the garden all by itself.

Do I get extra brownie points for buying a fancy one from Bluestone this spring?

you bet

but you have to say w hich one!

I think Clara Curtis was one of the ones I tried as well. Gosh I just googled it and that was a mistake. Now I want to buy it again lol....

MG, that was a long time ago! Your mum has done well! Although it seems like an odd contribution from Wild Bill. Seems too mundane for him lol.

:)

Dee

Marie, my mums do have a slightly woody-ish center, but I don’t divide them because what is emerging is not in that center, but on the perimeter and ALWAYS less vigorous than the year before. I thought they did not need to be divided every year. Instead of growing well and needing division, what emerges gets smaller and smaller. Before the center gets really woody the pallbearers have come for them.

That brings up another thing. when they emerge, they are practically traveling around the garden. They emerge SO FAR from the center each year and if only one side lives then the mum is actually moving in the garden from year to year.

I’ve given up on Clara Curtis. I have one that emerged this year and am considering making it a permanent potted plant that overwinters in the garage. maybe then it would be happy.

I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one with problems keeping mums alive. I just don’t get it. I love Sheffield Pink and am really bummed that I’ve only got one left. I wish I knew what to do, because I’m certainly not going to be able to replace them without buying from Bluestone or Select Seeds. I’ve made a list in past years of the ones from Bluestone I’d love to have but I won’t buy any until I know I they’ll thrive here!

do you know the names of yours?

Hey @Marie Tulin, one is one of the Minnesota Mammoth Mums, another is a NOID and very late blooming which I like and the final is Chrysanthemum "Silver and Gold" (Ajania Pacifica)

After reading others’ confessions about failed mums i should ’fess up too i lost some too.

the ones that have srvived reliably are two minnesota mums. i dont like their form much but they live right on the street by the mailbox and earn their keep.

i have two more paches coming up in back garden. No idea what they are. and they only 2 inches high . i cant imagine they will get big enough to bloom before it snows.

i think i dicarded or lost October Glory. i lost Will’s Wonderful which is indeed wonderful.

i had Mei Kyo and it is gone. i really believe the rabbits get them then they are too weakened to survive our fluctuating winters or tempermental springs.

so although i keep touting the single NE mums, i have passingly few of my own. Part of my motivation is that i truly hate supermarket mums tho I always seem to buy some.

I’d love to meet people who are more successful than i am so i could understand how they do it