If any of your local independent nurseries or garden centers carry Monrovia plants, they should be able to order either for you. Monrovia grows both.

One thing to keep in the back of your mind.........if better local nurseries don't usually carry the plant, there may be a good reason why :-) Have you seen established examples around town?

I was looking for a specific ground cover and just couldn't find it. I called Monrovia directly and they told me that the last shipment of that particular plant had already gone out. She checked with all their suppliers and none was available. She put me on the mailing list for when it ships again. Like gardengal said ^ there is a reason why.

The 2014 edition of the Hillier manual - which was prepared by the RHS - was calling it Arbutus x reyorum 'Marina'. Which I believe I have posted on this site before.

Ok thanks for the reminder...yes this has come up before, both here and on another forum where I sometimes post.

https://treesandshrubsonline.org/articles/arbutus/

So it's no longer just a hunch that it is an A. canariensis hybrid!

I've never seen anything about how it was determined what the parentage of 'Marina' was. If they didn't use DNA then we are left with somebody making the decision based on gross morphology alone. The pitfalls of which are why there has been money getting spent on the not cheaply done DNA studies of plants in later years.

Speaking of Jacobson and Arbutus one thing I know he has stated is that menziesii does better in the presence of lime. And that is why he thinks the now ubiquitous fungus problems afflicting it here in our part of its native area are not visible on madronas growing in the vicinity of a cement plant in Seattle.

Whereas the page you linked to announces that this species hates lime. And is not the first statement on that site that may need to be reviewed.

This may not help you now, but several years ago Rainbow Gardens in San Antonio carried what they called Arbutus 'Stawberry tree'. They of course supplied the specific variety name as well, but I don't remember it. I was interested, but decided not to take a chance on it.

However, the Rainbow Gardens location on Thousand Oaks has one growing in the parking lot that was doing quite well the last time I looked. Also I believe the San Antonio Botanical Gardens has a large tree that is closely related growing outside their old entrance with the wide steps. It wasn't labeled, but it looked like it to me. I'm mentioning these on the small chance that if you are ever in the vicinity you might want to check them out.

Thanks roselee! I may be headed to San Antonio soon, so I'd better give Rainbow Gardens a call!

And Davidrt28, that was very informative. Thank you! I'll drop Marina from consideration and just look for Arbutus unedo or maybe Texas Madrone.

There is one nursery in my small suburb where an employee told me that they'd tried to grow some Arbutus unedo seeds in the past few months (I think) and it hadn't worked out for some reason so they were ordering more seeds. Other than that I haven't found anything in local nurseries.

Ericaceous plants take a long time from seed so you probably want to skip ahead to finding a full grown plant locally or via mail order. Forestfarm has some tubes right now but, I would caution that's going to be a somewhat tricky plant to get going from a tube, especially in TX, and I would suggest waiting until someone like Woodlanders or Nurseries Caroliniana is offering gallons. Again related to its plant family: members of the heath family have small fine roots so you would want to start with a certain volume greater than a toilet paper roll cardboard core, which is about what you get in the Forestfarm 'tube' size!

Good luck - they are really pretty when they get some size on them and it's one of my favorite broad leaved evergreens in my garden!

This is 'Elfin King'. Mine isn't bearing heavily but gets better each year, depending on weather the prior year. The red berries occurring at the same time as the flowering, with red bark, is a nice combo.

I called Rainbow Gardens, and one of their locations in San Antonio used to have Arbutus unedo and they expect to get more of them in the next weeks or months. I asked the rep if they should be okay for the Austin area, and she said yes. I asked how late in the season they can be planted, and she said that they shouldn't be planted later than June or July.

If she was right about that, that means that even if they take a couple of months to get some in stock, I can still just wait and buy one then.

Was she correct about the planting time? What months are okay to plant them in? I'd like as much flexibility as possible, as I can't always just pop down to San Antonio: it's two hours away from me.

'Elfin King' is supposed to be a midget, last time I saw it offered - which is not often - I bought one and put it in a tight space. After which it shot right up - the upper part of yours looks like it may be the same clone.

So I am thinking it isn't offered much because material circulated under the name is not true to type. As in incorrect (a different plant) or the cultivar never really was as described.

Regarding the early summer planting time question the problem there is simply trying to keep stuff watered that goes into the ground just as the weather is heating up. And would not be anything peculiar to arbutus.

Dante, good luck getting your plant. Provided you don't have another winter like the last one...and you probably won't...I would plant that type of BLE in fall in your area. It can make a lot of root growth during your mild and wet(er) winters. I'm even finding up here in northeastern Maryland - if I think a rhodo cultivar is totally hardy and I'm starting with a > 1 gallon size - they seem to do better planted in fall than spring. But later this spring is ok, you will just have to keep an eye on it during summer. Avoid the temptation to over-water...they are from a Mediterranean climate after all...but do keep the soil from getting too dry. You should definitely mulch it!

Thanks embo. FWIW, whether it stays smaller or not, I find the foliage of whatever is called 'Elfin King' from Woodlanders to be prettier than random Arbutus unedo seedlings I've seen in various places, like the quite large plant at the Norfolk Botanic Garden in SE VA. A little glossier I think.

FWIW, back to Marina for a moment...I went down an arbutus rabbit's hole last night - they are a fascinating genus - and found this: https://summer-dry.com/arbutus/

Saying that 'Marina' can even be cranky IN CALIFORNIA. Would definitely not waste my time on it in Texas!

That's good to know.

I wonder if anyone has tried crossing Arbutus unedo with a Texas Madrone.

I was lucky to visit Big Bend National Park about a decade ago. There is some clonal variation, but I'd say the best A. xalapensis were perfect as they are. Achingly gorgeous red bark. No point hybridizing with anything else! And it was right after the 2011 freeze - so temps up there at 6000' had been at or below 0F and they looked fine.

I'd much prefer someone just graft them onto an A. unedo proven to grow well in the Southeast. (presumably, some clones may do better than others) Alas, as I said earlier, this is as very limited horticultural practice in the US. We tend to only graft things that leave the nurseryperson no choice, like Japanese Maples and conifer cultivars. In Australia there are whole sections of nurseries selling rot-sensitive proteaceae grafted on rot-resistant rootstocks, so they can grow in the Sydney and Melbourne areas. The largest rhododendron wholesaler in the world, in Germany, grafts every elepidote they produce.

Hmmm. I thought I wouldn’t buy a Texas Madrone (though I do know some nurseries in Central Texas that sell them) because I heard that they’re incredibly slow growing, and I want a tree that will be at least the size of smallish ornamentals in a reasonable amount of time.

Just how slow are they? And they would grow around Austin, right?

I have clay soil that gets soggy in winter and contracts in the summer. So I might need to avoid Texas Madrone since I hear expanding and contracting clay can damage their thin roots, which kills them. I hope that won’t kill all Arbutus species....

If you want something faster growing with nice bark, you might look elsewhere. Even in the best of circumstances no Arbutus quickly sizes up to shade tree size; Marina is probably on the fast end of the spectrum but, again, not a plant for your area.

Add a layer of compost, maybe 1/2", and then a layer of mulch and I bet the Arbutus will be fine, should you desire to grow it. You can see what the nursery recommends but it surely wants midday shade in Texas. Do you have large trees on your lot like evergreen oaks?

I don’t need fast growing. But I heard something like 100 years to maturity for a Texas Madrone, and I’d like to see a tree I plant start looking like a tree in my lifetime.

I don’t need it to be a shade tree. If it gets to be 8 feet tall and decent well-branched I’ll be happy even if it stops growing right then.

I would say then you can expect a healthy gallon Arbutus to reach 8' in no more than 15 years, probably less. Mine was killed to ground in 2014, and is already almost 5', but it was planted in 2006! So was restarting with a large root system. Had it not been killed back it would be at least 8' now. This assumes everything being optimal about conditions...mine probably are, other than sometimes being a little too cold for too long in winter. It could well dieback again someday up here...that's ok with me, it gives the ornamental effect I want it to give at its current size.

I assume by Arbutus you mean either Arbutus species.

I just (finally) managed to figure which of the three eco-regions of greater Austin I live in. I am in the Blackland Prairie region. That makes me lean towards Arbutus unedo, since Texas Madrone is supposed to grow specifically on the Edwards Plateau, not the Blackland Prairie.

Probably the foreign species is not better adapted to your particular conditions than the geographically regional native. You should look around at what is growing wild near you and what other people are growing for hints at what it is possible to grow there. Including what is present in any arboreta or botanic gardens that may be located in your same sector.

By the way even though most of the population is in the Mediterranean region unedo is also native to a rainy coastal area in Ireland. This background probably has something to do with it also being more suited for typical horticultural production regimes and decorative landscape use than the other species - in my area it is a standard item frequently seen at independent outlets. And in the planted landscape, both public and private.

"Probably the foreign species is not better adapted to your particular conditions than the geographically regional native."

But clearly Arbutus is an exception; depends on the meaning of 'adapted', but just as Arbutus menziesii is difficult under normal garden conditions in the PNW and as you say yourself, nurseries there prefer to sell the more growable A. unedo, A. xalapensis is tricky in Texas gardens even in its native range. More so than things like Sophora secundiflora which is easier to buy in nurseries.

A lot of Mediterranean plants will adopt to some summer rainfall - first of all because parts of it actually ARE wet in summer...at least compared to some of the world's other "Mediterranean" climates, like California! Rome's JJA rainfall averages over an inch per month...I doubt one can find any weather station in CA where that's true. Barcelona in September was muggy in a way I doubt a place with similar average high temps would be in CA.

Furthermore there's a theory that there was more summer rainfall in the Med. basin during fairly recent past periods IIRC due to the African humid period, which happens on a 23000 year cycle.

The plan is to plant an Arbutus and an Arbequina olive near the Windmill Palm I recently planted near the patio, and a Southern Magnolia and maybe a bay laurel as a windbreak. (Currently anything left on the patio is blown into the flowerbed in short order.) I’ve dug most of the holes, carefully spaced and placed for correct amounts of sunlight.

I’ve also been planting a double row of various fruit trees on one side of the yard and I plan to plant a soundscreen / privacy screen along the back fence. I’d like to throw in an Italian cypress or two. I’m going for a loosely Mediterranean look (in my flower beds too).

This is the first time I’ve had a backyard to plant things in, my lot is 0.3 acres, and I’m really excited.

Thanks for all the advice and interesting information.

But clearly Arbutus is an exception

Notice I posted

You should look around at what is growing wild near you and what other people are growing for hints at what it is possible to grow there

Otherwise today I noticed this page originating in hot and rainy Florida:

It appears to be a very
adaptable tree and should do well in a variety of
landscape sites

arbtexa.pdf (ufl.edu)

5 gallon plants appeared in independent garden centers in the Seattle area a few years back so apparently there had been some wholesale production taking place - presumably in California - at that time. As I recall sticker signs on the pots indicated the source as being a brokerage so I don't know who grew them.

Apparently Cistus has sold it in the past (scroll down to description provided by them)

Very soil tolerant as long as the drainage is excellent. Requires little to no summer water but tolerates occasional water if, again, the drainage is excellent

https://plantlust.com/plants/30769/arbutus-xalapensis/

but they don't have it listed on their web site at this time.

I don't know why you see the need to belabor this. The locally noted, 2nd generation horticulturalist who tried 'Marina' had tried to grow Texas madrones on the east coast way back in the 1970s-80s (IIRC, on the same trip he collected the seeds of Caesalpinia gilliesii that Woodlander's used to start their stock plants) and found them prone to root rot. In fact I think he was trying 'Marina' hoping it would be an arborescent Arbutus that he could grow in his garden!

Those UFL factsheets contain plenty of dubious information and they were clearly created from secondary sources. And note anyhow, that even the heading on the page seems to attribute the data to a "Southern Group of State Foresters", including Texas. It's possible some forester in the Hill Country of Texas thought it was very adaptable tree and should do well in a variety of
landscape sites and relayed this information to the editors...and indeed, it might be in the Hill Country.

A better source would be Dirr but he appears to have closed the website that was distributing info from his books. But his latest, subtitled "Superior Selections for Landscapes, Streetscapes, and Gardens" doesn't even cover Arbutus xalapensis, though it does cover A unedo, A. 'Marina' and even A. menziesii.

From https://tpwmagazine.com/archive/2007/jan/legend/

"Efforts to transplant the Texas madrone have proven dicey, too. It may have to do with the tree’s tiny, fibrous root system. As a result, the Texas madrone remains uncommon in most parts of Texas and next to impossible to buy at a local nursery."

Finally - bless his heart but Sean Hogan will practically say anything will grow anywhere! At least in his catalog. I do have his BLE book somewhere but can't find it right now.

Finally a far, far more 'scientific' approach is to see if this grows in public gardens in the Southeast. Unfortunately both the Atlanta Botanical Garden and the SFASU arboretum seem to have stupidly removed their plant lists in the past couple years - although I probably have the one for the latter squirreled away somewhere on my computer. Luckily between the Bartlett Arboretum and the NCSU, practically any tree that can be grown in the southeast is grown. And it's not in either database. Arbutus xalapensis was definitely on JC's radar - in fact his garden notes are probably where I first read about it AND I think it was on his list of suggested plants to graft for root rot tolerance! If one could grow there, believe me it would be growing. (The website of NCSU has some close-up pics of Arbutus ×andrachnoides which help show how different it is from 'Marina'. And what are the two that grow in North Carolina? No surprise: A. unedo and A. × andrachnoides!)

( semi-OT but having driven a big chunk of the west coast and west Texas, I can tell you, though they may both be hard to grow, there are a whole lot more of the west coast species on this earth than the Texas one)

I don't know why you see the need to belabor this

I would say that characterization is more aptly applied to the way that you tend to post on this site. Same as when you accused me of being "angry" on the one magnolia thread that went on for years. A thread that eventually got to a point where other participants were reporting outcomes with the one variety that I had warned about way back at the beginning.

Look, it's nothing personal to me though apparently it is to you. You used bad supporting evidence that this is somehow a readily growable plant in typical garden settings the southeast. It most certainly is not, as even various Texas sources will note.

"the foreign species is not better adapted to your particular conditions than the geographically regional native."

"the foreign species" clearly IS "better adapted to [local garden] conditions" which is why the nursery Dante called sells A. unedo and not Arbutus xalapensis!

Just emailed the director of the Mast Arboretum at SFASU in East Texas with whom I have exchanged plants.

"Have never succeeded with that arbutus here - tried but failed - even in sharp drained soils it seems to want to die in our deluges"

I'm in Austin near Shoal Creek and I have a Madrone 'Marina' in my front yard that is about 20 years old. I'm sure I got it a Gardens but these days, if one of the local nurseries don't carry it, you can get them to order one through Monrovia.

Mine is about 18' tall. We are on heavy deep clay soil here so it is not well draining like a limestone hillside would be and it has had some dieback during very wet seasons but not enough to put me off of keeping it. It is the best feature in our front yard and I love it. I had killed several of the native Madrone here and at our previous house before I gave up on them.

However, they are rated as hardy to 15F and lower when established. It was severely effected by the big freeze and I don't know yet how much of it is dead. It is sending up new shoots from the bottom which is not surprising since it is a naturally multi-trunked tree. I can't bear to cut it down yet, so I am going to try putting a few vines on it for this year and see what happens with the new shoots.

I have had a much different experience with this tree than the above. Hardy to 15F is pushing it....a lot!! You will see significant winter dieback and uniform foliage browning on trees here once temps dip into the lower 20's. Heck, even our native Pacific madrones will experience cold damage and dieback at temps much below below freezing!! Cold hardiness is definitely questionable with the entire genus.

I would also say that multitrunked specimens are the exception rather than the rule. Much more common with Arbutus unedo.

IME, easily the pickiest of the commonly available madrones. I am skeptical enough about their long term viability in my very mild winter climate that I never spec them for my design clients but do use Arbutus unedo often.

OK, so we have a brand new poster - welcome - with a report of a long term-ish Marina in Austin. Recent century freeze notwithstanding - even though it had "some dieback" over the years from summer rain, it's still more reliable than the west Texas native! LOL. It goes without saying, would love to see a picture of it, in fact two, before and after recent cold. But 20 years ago was about the time a wholesaler started producing cheap liners for wider national distribution so the age makes sense. I tried one at my Virginia garden and it died. I think we (me and the other DC area gardener) got them from Forestfarm.

Well, call me crazy, but I would want something that has "no dieback" so would just plant Arbutus unedo!!! Or if I want to go out on a limb and experiment reasonably, try the less hardy but also summer rainfall resistant A. x andrachnoides even though it's very hard to find these days. I have no doubt it would be more cold hardy than 'Marina'. I wish I could remember how the one at NCSU looked when I went down there after the polar vortex winter but it wasn't on my radar. A lot more interesting cold damage to survey like their collection of "cold hardy" citrus and bromeliads. Or lack of cold damage like their amazing Cinnamomum wilsonii.

Part of the prior msg got borked for some reason so will just respond to GG here. It could be that hotter summers ripen the wood a bit better. A. unedo is solid here until 10F, seems to have foliar damage 0 to 10F, and the one time it died completely to the ground for me was PV-II when it hit 0F and several times over weeks, too.

But I think you and I would agree, A. unedo is the safe and sane choice for the original poster! It's unquestionable the hardiest AND the most soil adaptable. Although, ideally someone with an old A. unedo in Texas would chime in with how it did. HU-483792744 what was your low? If your Marina still isn't showing any green on the top you will probably need for it to restart from the base. It's easy for us northerners to forget, you've now had weeks in the 60-70s since the freeze.

So now I guess my only question - other than can someone find an Arbutus unedo seller nearer to Austin than the one in San A.? - is why is Arbutus unedo so hard to find around here?

It sounds like a great tree. It sounds like it blows a lot of ornamentals out of the water (it's evergreen, it has multiple ornamental attributes) I know for a fact it grows well in at least some parts of Central Texas. Why is it so hard to find?

Final tip about these...why let this thread stop at 35 or wherever we are now haha!

Ericaceous plants are not hungry hungry hippos. Although they may tolerate and even appear to grow faster with regular feeding, my personal belief is it can be skirting disaster. Not going to go find an article connecting over-fertilization to root rot but I bet I could find >> 1. This genus, especially, really wants 'benign neglect'. Sure it would be different if you were growing, say, blueberries on sandy soil. In fact I just fertilized one of my blueberries that seemed to be lagging with a bit of ammonium sulfate, we will see if it perks up this year.

Anecdotes and opinions are what they are but, the 2nd set of pics at the NCSU link above are of a hybrid strawberry tree in London. They are a feature of gardens there. In 2010 I saw a stunning one in Rye, a solid zone 9 town on the south coast of the UK, but later read at a gardening forum that it had died. I succinctly remember it had been underplanted with a lush assembly of shade perennials that SCREAMED 'we're being heavily fertilized'. The Cyclamen coum were already blooming and so big they looked like houseplants! So, house changes owners, new owner wants beautiful plants under their strawberry tree, fertilizes them and...bam...the water moulds loved the fertilizer, too! And took out the tree! So we can't be sure that's what happened, but something to be aware of. In almost 15 years I've fertilized mine no more than 2-3 times with scant amounts of Miracle Gro (no need for Miracid here, already incredibly acidic soil!) and it's done just fine. I've repeated it ad naseum, but the case of the Camellia 'Aida' in my garden and one very close by, grown by a PhD horticulturalist at Longwood...pretty conclusively proves to me the already known connection between too much nitrogen and a failure to harden for winter. First PV winter, mine had a tiny bit of scorching on the leaf edges, the one he was heavily fertilizing so he could size it up for breeding purposes died so dead it couldn't even come back from the roots!

UPDATE: was reading an excellent page about the hybrid - I didn't know it seldom fruited but that makes sense. So it's a big trade off to lose the fruits I think! https://www.architecturalplants.com/product/arbutus-x-andrachnoides/

Why is it so hard to find?

I can answer that! First of all, as I alluded to earlier, the American nursery industry as a whole is just greedy and lazy, and a slow-growing-when-young-BLE (broad leaved evergreen) is a hard sell. When are they most ornamental? In late fall and early winter, a time hardly anyone is nursery shopping.

But here's a more interesting reason:

I had Van Veen root some of my 'Elfin King' just before the polar vortex winter, cuz I had the fanciful idea of having a hedge of them. (seeing how that winter affected mine, will just stick with the one for now)

Now, by this point I had grown several 1 year rooted rhodie cuttings from VV just fine. Would you believe of the 20 or so 'Elfin King' cuttings, they all died? They did. A one year rhodie cutting has fine roots, but a 1 year Arbutus unedo has REALLY fine roots. I mean, like tiny threads of silk or something. That's why I recommended you buy at least a gallon, and not a "tube" from Forestfarm, although, GENERALLY SPEAKING, the tubes are well grown and have a good little root system stuffed in there. For that particular genus, in a place with your hot summers, I'd say it's safer to start with at least a gallon size.

I later confirmed this in a discussion I had with a nurseryman I know, also on the south coast in the UK. He said they were very difficult to take from the cutting stage to their saleable plant size. But that's not something you have to worry about. If you find a healthy looking 2 or 3 footer, it will have a strong enough root system. Mine endured the very hot (for us) summers of 2010, 2011 and 2012 just fine, and it had started life here as a Forestfarm tube, not a gallon. Just confirmed that in my plant database.

It's been interesting reading this exchange between people who seem to be more knowledgeable than I am. I have never seen Arbutus unedo for sale in Austin. I'm really curious now to try one and if people tried grafting on it as rootstock I would try that too.

I am familiar with Hill Country Natives which started as a backyard labor of love for an ex-engineer and later branched into well adapted non-natives and edibles. It is incredibly difficult to grow the native Madrones in a nursery and next to impossible to get them to grow when planted. There is some thinking that it might have to do with symbiotic fungi. I killed several before I gave up.

So when Arbutus 'Marina' became available I tried one. I may have read about it first in a gardening magazine. Gardens was a lovely nursery that sold a wider variety of annuals and veggies than other places as well as really lovely high priced fancy things that I couldn't afford but loved to go look at. They had the Marinas in 5 gal and 1 gal so I bought a 1 gal and it lived. I had learned from my earlier life in California where I bought native plants from The Theodore Payne Foundation that 1 gal plants are likely to catch up and surpass 5 gal plants in the long run. Plus they are cheaper, so I got to try more things out.

The one thing I would want to point out to the OP is that there are different soils in different parts of Austin. Our first house was a limestone hillside, so good drainage. This place is pure clay so it is more challenging because a lot of the TX natives want really good drainage. Scott Ogden's book Gardening Success with Difficult Soils is my bible and second is the Wasowski's native plant book. And stay away from big box stores for anything going in the ground. There are dedicated growers of native and well-adapted non-natives here who sell to the locally owned nurseries.

Before this thread closes...just an observation...googled A. menziesii a few minutes ago and am absolutely gobsmacked to see that they grow in the Sierra Nevada mountains.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbutus_menziesii#/media/File:Arbutus_menziesii_range_map_1.png

Next time I'm in CA, finding the Madrones of the Sierra Nevada might become an obsession. Do they only grow in the low foothills, like Colfax...and thus no reason to expect them to have extra hardiness?

I doubt anyone is still 'subscribed' to this, but just in case, Forestfarm currently has the hybrid strawberry tree that can grow in the Southeast and Texas: https://www.woodlanders.net/index.cfm?fuseaction=plants.plantDetail&plant_id=1111