We mentioned our concerns to the contractor who said something to the effect that many walls in a home are not exactly plumb.

What was your response to that steaming-hot load of bs? The cabinets are beautiful btw and appear to have been built well.

The condition you have--where cabinets are flush with a wall is pretty unforgiving. It requires greater precision during construction. A better approach is to ensure a larger margin between the face of a wall and the face of cabinetry which an experienced designer will know to do.

An out-of-plumb condition is defined in the NAHB Residential Construction Performance Guidelines as an offset of more than 3/8" in any 32" of vertical measurement. Your wall would be considered plumb. That said, I wouldn't be happy with the wall as is. It can be built out and shimmed if necessary to provide a more consistent reveal between the end of the wall and the cabinet face. I don't think asking your contractor to do that is unreasonable.

I just noticed that when the crown molding is installed on the front of the tall cabinet it’s going to stick out past the wall.

Thank you for your replies!!

I failed to mention that our plans also call for the construction of a false beam across the entrance into the kitchen area so maybe that will cover it up a bit but the bowing I see starts much lower than the beam will do.

@Charles Ross Homes Should our designer have made plans that called for more than a 28" wall? I guess they figured that would be enough of a margin but contractor didn't even put the wall at that...

I assume that to build out and shim the wall we would have to have our cabinet guys remove and re-install those cabinets to avoid damaging and to access? Side note, our cabinet guys only warrantied the cabinets if THEY installed them so I think we would get into trouble if our contractor tried to do that.

The wall would probably be fine if the base cabinets are standard 24" deep cabinets and terminated at the wall. However, the floor-to-ceiling cabinet at the end appears to be deeper than the base cabinets by 3"-4" In that case, a 28" wall wouldn't provide much, if any, reveal between the wall and cabinets.

I can't imagine how much it would cost to have the cabinet guys take out cabinets to extend the wall. Shouldn't our contractor assume the cost to bring the installers back out?

No need to remove cabinets to fix it and let your GC worry about the costs and what needs to happen to fix it. He should have been more onto of it and caught the issue earlier himself. It is normal for walls to not be plumb, but when it meets something that isn’t and you can tell it is off it should be fixed as part of normal quality control. Ask the GC if he would be happy with that in his house and if he’d like prospective clients of his to see that as part of his work.

@Sammy Thanks for the compliment on the cabinets. That was another source of buyer remorse. I worried about the cost of the custom cabinets vs. store bought ones and I'm glad you think we made a good choice:)

@User Thank you for the advice. I just have a hard time visualizing how the contractor could possibly be delicate enough to extend the wall edge without damaging cabinets sitting flush with that edge. I thought a decorative faux reclaimed wood beam would look nice. It would extend the entire length of the ceiling (past the wall that is used to cover the exposed edge of the pantry and hold the light switch). Similar to the attached inspiration photo but not with the vertical faux beams on the ends.

@lyfia Thank you too for that advice. I definitely am a worry wart and need someone to tell me to get off google trying to figure out how to fix this problem!! I agree that our contractor should have been more hands on and caught the problem. I have a hard time stopping myself from double checking other people's work. I think our contractor would say it wouldn't be a big deal in his house based upon his initial response. Although he did say he'd have to have a talk with the worker that built the wall for him. Don't get me wrong our contractor is a very nice person which is why it is hard for me to demand a correction for it. But if I'm not being unreasonable I will insist.

Would you accept a cabinet with that degree of wonkiness?

Of course not.

I would insist that it gets fixed. Any push back from the contractor & I would tell him that he probably doesn't want that picture in his Yelp reviews...

@User Thanks for the input. That makes sense about the faux beam. Our opening goes from "stub" wall to an end wall/corner. I'm not sure how they would do the casing at that corner condition and with our flush ceiling. I'll attach a bigger picture to see the full opening. Do you think it would look horrible if we used a faux beam but with the vertical beams at the pantry side and corner wall?

Ok. Thank you @User I do know that the stub wall was built because originally the gas line came down a wall that was where our island is now. So the contractor had to redirect the gas, etc to that stub wall and trench the slab to bring it into the island.

I’m sure it is obvious that I’m a newbie and despite interviewing multiple contractors and doing what was recommended to do our due diligence before starting the remodel....at some point I had to hope that those I chose knew what they were doing. I certainly don’t anything!

Is this beam in this picture also a design no no? It isn’t exactly like our opening however it doesn’t appear symmetric to me. But to my eyes I think it looks fine. I hired a designer because I have no idea what is acceptable or not.

NAHB Residential Construction Performance Guidelines as an offset of more than 3/8" in any 32" of vertical measurement.

@CharlesRossHomes this is a travesty to the industry ! im workin 1/8" in 10' !!!

This is a design, not a framing, flaw. If the wall was 2" longer, you'd never see it out of plumb. Who the hell thinks cabinets flush with a wall end is a good idea? Cabinets die into the wall. Duh.

Have them bring the other side out to for a true cased opening. No they dont need to be symmetrical. The second photo shows a similar drop ceiling between spaces like you have in your new kitchen. These are faux beams

If that wall didn’t have to be there you could have ended your cabinet run with the side of the cabinet and been done! Realistically I would want the drywall stub wall ripped out and have the cabinet company put a false cabinet to hide the gas line so it would terminate the run with pretty wood!

if I had a dollar for every contractor that blamed out of square walls...I fired mine when he used that as an excuse on a simple project!

Wow! Thank you everyone for your replies and suggestions. I wish I had hired all of you to do our job:)

@K H I love your idea of putting the gas line in a false cabinet! I wish our designer, contractor or cabinet guy would have thought of that earlier. I think it would be too expensive to redo it now:(

Are you saying you also think we need to build out a stub wall on the opposite side like @User says? I'm not sure what you meant by "bring the other side out." I worry about putting in a stub wall on the opposite side because unlike the wall with all the perimeter cabinets the opposite wall turns 90 degrees. When you stand in the kitchen and look out I worry it will look more asymmetric if I built out that wall. Hard to describe in words so here is a pic from inside the kitchen. Sorry about the lighting...I have no lights on that side yet.

Didn’t know looking out of the kitchen that wall turned the corner. Hmmm. I think you woul be ok to just add a beam to the lower portion of the ceiling with a post on each side butted up against the stub wall and that corner.

How low are the ceilings in the kitchen?

^^^ I was thinking the same - in a standard 9' interior wall - that would be "acceptable" up to an inch and a quarter??????? really??????

@just_janni,

Tolerances are not cumulative. NAHB's 3/8" offset is the maximum permitted in any 32" vertical. To be sure, it's a minimum standard.

As Joseph Corlett pointed out, the out-of-plumb condition would be less objectionable if there was more reveal between the cabinet face and the wall. It could be a design deficiency or it might be the consequence of a change in the cabinet design to a cabinet deeper than 24"

Don’t do the faux rustic beam. That just looks like it was dropped down from outer space and landed in your sophisticated kitchen.

A different beam - maybe, maybe not.

Charles Ross Homes - thanks for the clarification - as written it would seem to allow compounding, or at least a larger span being out of plumb a larger amount...

@K H Our ceilings in the kitchen are 8'

With the drop ceiling and the corner I would be hesitant to add a rustic beam as well. It would scream fake and would lower the ceiling even more. I'm not sure what to do for even a decorative trim. I do like how this looks and it might work for your transition to just wrap the bad wall with decorative trim.

You are way over thinking everything. You just need to tell your contractor that you want the reveal on the stub wall/cabinet to be uniform. Period. You are the boss. Tell him that in no uncertain terms. Say, “It is unacceptable to me. Fix it.” That is all that you need to say. If he starts to hem and haw.... Show him the palm of your hand and say, “Enough. Fix it.” How he does it, what needs to be done to do it, who he must call, how much time it takes....these are not YOUR problems. They are his. And if he keeps saying things like that, tell him....”Those are not my problem. This is your problem to solve. Now.” And walk away. If it isn’t done, and it isn’t done to your specification then don’t pay him. Practice this. Over and over. I have learned a lot of things in home renovation and the first thing I learned was to be direct, open, and firm. Good luck.

When you say out of plumb, did you actually put a level on the cabinet and the wall?

@ptreckel If a customer of mine hand-palmed me and talked to me like a child I would have a very difficult time making any concessions for them. Tactics like this are not productive and have no place on a jobsite. Some builders & contractors are guilty of these tactics as well. Expectations can be conveyed without drama or disrespect. Firm does not need to be disrespectful.

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Glad your builder didn't put up a fuss. It will be a pain for him to fix, so good he is willing.

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I'm curious if you did your cabinet design before or after the framing of the wall? Occurred to me that the original design may not have had the deeper tall cabinet. I agree with others that you would not have noticed the issue had the cabinet been installed at 24" deep. 28" was likely done to match the depth of the refrigerator surround? Not that it's important now that the builder has agreed to fix, but if he thought the cabinet was going to be 24" deep, it would explain why the wall was built 28". If he built it 32" and you only had 24" deep then the question would have ben asked: "Why did you build it so deep?" Again, I'm just curious what the sequence of these decisions was.

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As a lesson to others, this is precisely the type of problem that builders run into all the time. Many architects and designers don't do kitchen cabinet layouts, so a seemingly minor detail like this can be a problem at final stage if the cabinets are not designed before framing begins. As mentioned countless times on this forum, getting as many details as possible worked out before you build is so important!

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Best of luck

DB, I acknowledge your response to my comment, above. At the same time, I have been treated, in the past, by some (not all) contractors and builders as if I were a child. Indeed, one even called me “little girl” to my face. I am little, but I am not (and was not at the time, “a girl.” So, I found that I had to be assertive. NOT, I think, rude. Just forceful. I have deep respect for the skills of many of the craftsmen and women who have worked on my home. I, in turn, expect the same consideration for my reasonable requests. Or at the very least, an explanation of why or how an “error” has occurred, and how it can be rectified. No. One doesn’t want to have to be confrontational. But sometimes it is required. I wish the best for all who are involved in transactions such as these. Clients have to be realistic. Contractors and builders have to be transparent and honest.