Samantha, Absolutely, lack of expansion joints could have also been the part of the problem, which is unrelated to grout joint size. When installing, manufacturer instructions comes first, then the standards second if there is missing or conflicting information and instruction. If there is a failure, an inspector (or a court) will first use manufacturer specs and instructions, because they are the liable responsible party in a claim, so their information takes presidence. Thats what installer must follow first if there is conflict, and if there is missing information, the TCNA/ANSI standards come in. Now, many manufacturers refer to the TCNA/ANSI standards. Additionally, some manufacturers do not offer all needed information which then the TCNA/ANSI standards kick in. Every installer should be well versed in both. There are many tile and stone manufacturers who still allow for ultra thin grout joints. In regards to the standards changes you mention in grout joint sizes, indeed the TCNA/ANSI has made recommendations for the first time concerning grout joint size and spacing. To completely understand the new changes you have to understand how recommendations are made. When they say "in general", these are not absolute standards. Simply guidance lacking any other source taking presidence. When they say "absolute", these are standards that are never to be strayed from. The new changes on grout joint width is an "in general recommendation" or situational recommendation. Ultimately, the project owner should choose the grout joint they desire. -from the TCNA website. Please view the TCNA link for more information. It explains it pretty well. If you have tile cut or manufactured to tight size tolerances, you can have any joint size you wish. Of course, as I stated before, not all tile is able to be installed with the ultra thin grout joints. Again this is situational. There is no absolute standard for tile joint width. Tile it is a finish topical product, relying on the subfloor/framing/substrate structure for rigidity and in-range deflection for its stability and structure. Now if you continue to believe otherwise, that the tile system itself aides in overall system stability and structural integrity and/or that grout joint size matters at all when tile sizing is withing parameters, I really dont know how else to convince you. Since this obviosuly matters a great deal to you, I would suggest you buy a copy of the standards. Its relatively inexpensive. Then you can read for yourself in context. Also I would suggest that you start reading up on tile manufacturers installation guidelines and instruction for various products you may be interested in, as they take presidence, although they usually are in line with the standards. Here is a link that might be useful: TCNA Standards For Grout

We live very close to Six Flags, so we could probably meet there sometime. I am not a fan of roller coasters, but my husband and daughter will most likely drag me there anyway. We have been there a week ago (with free passes)and the Halloween decoration is pretty neat. "DH was a Navy Dentist" Oooh, I hate dentists... Of course not personally, but I am extremely scared of them. I just had my teeth done before leaving NC and the dentist laughed at me for being so terrified. I'd seriously prefer childbirth over getting teeth pulled or filled... I guess I have been mistaken about the tax credit for appliances. You can get up to 10% tax credit for energy efficient home improvements like windows, AC, water heaters etc. I was sure I read the same about washers and dishwashers, but the energy star webiste (see link below) shows that just the manufacturers get a tax break for those...too bad. We did install new windows, so we should get $200 back there...better than nothing. Have to get going. We'll go to the State Fair today! Here is a link that might be useful: federal tax credits

lindybarts: oh, i lust for your pulls! But, alas, I am far too disinterested in housecleaning to muck out what I know would get deposited in those crevices/ridges by OTHER people who live with me. jmfromil: I was at Restoration last week, but running late and couldn't wait for the slow browsers to clear out of the cab. hardware section. I'll be down that way next week and look again. bob cville: I really like your choice. DH has to touch and feel, so I'm gathering some samples for him to attach to a board, so we can experience them just like in a showroom. I MUST have plain and they need to return to the cabinet front without an end to get caught on. DH doesn't like the curved ones much, but I might get a curved rectangular one past him. I read the other thread. And, yes, our GC knows we'll be picky about the cabinetmaker since DH builds furniture himself. judithn: I'll check with the site you mentioned in CA. glad: I liked a lot of siro's, but I don't have the names in front of me. It's all here--somewhere. I'm thinking 5" is a good size for all also. ALL: I know this seems like a small thing but I really appreciate your help with it. Once I gather all the samples I think we can test them out for "feel" and do some size mockups to see what looks best as well. (No handles on our cabinets in the current house; maybe we'll tape some of the samples on??)

Hello again. We've been investigating benjsbride's design. We had a builder come in and give us an estimate for removing the big wall. It is load bearing plus it had 3 HVAC lines in it. Since the wall has HVAC and there are no relatively easy ways to relocate the HVAC line we would have a 12"x12" soffit on the ceiling. Something we could live with considering the improvement we could get by removing the wall. The space that benjesbride had designated for the wall oven is also a load bearing wall and that one has water and drain for the upstairs bathrooms. We may forgo making that change and leave the closet as is for the moment. What we have now is show below in the image and also the linked plan. The left wall (when looking at the 2D image) has our builtins remaining that come out to 12" which should then be rather flush with the 12" wall they need to build for the HVAC lines. You can see this space in the linked plan. We end up losing the wall oven so what about placing it in an island? Is this type of thing even done? Overall thoughts on the updated plan? http://kitchenplanner.ikea.com/US/UI/Pages/VPUI.htm?&LoadDesign=74dc074dc94e43cc8a346e583ec064ff&UIContext=SE_Menu&IsSharedDesign=1&Entry=Kitchen