It reads to me that he’s keeping the upgrade charge in lieu of the change fee.

Paperwork gets changed, plans get changed, info communicated to his teams. Down grading is as much paperwork as upgrading. A change requires a change order and a developer makes money on change orders period, unfortunately. Typically downgrades would trigger a credit but developers will never credit back or if they do it is pennies on the dollar. But in this case I agree with Hillside, they won't charge you the CO fee but you get nothing back.

The island should be at least 41"-42" deep, which would include 24" cabinet, 15" minimum seating overhang recommended by the NKBA, front overhang, and back cover panel. But if you ask for that depth now, it seems it would be another change order charge.

If you can maintain at least 42", counter-to-counter in the work aisle, and at least 36" on the pantry side, I think the 4' x 8' island will work, and will give you increased prep and storage space. Do you have any choice on the layout of the island?

@Hillsidehouse yep😑

@millworkman yea I know, still sucks lol

@mamagoose, we're gonna measure again to see. It felt workable on the breakfast nook side and kitchen entryway, it also felt like the island seating would be basically in the living room and not enough clearance on the the refrigerator side

I noticed several other things that don't seem to be standard. 1) The cooktop appears to be only 24". 2) The fridge doesn't seem to be enclosed in a cabinet surround. 3) There is no filler between the 30" oven cabinet and the wall. If those are your choices, that's fine, but as I posted, not usually standard.

It always feels bigger like that! When we taped ours off I got so nervous it seems way too big but in the space now with everything it's not, we even have 54" aisles!! Like mamagoose said just make sure you have at least 42" aisles with everything installed.

Also we have a 12" overhang on our island and it's fine (had 10" in our last house and that was even fine) so if you want to gain a few inches on the seating side you could.

Down grading is as much paperwork as upgrading.

Ain't that the truth!!!

We took a builder's option to *remove* a pass-through wall between "nook" and family room (the wall *had* to go, because we have a big table for a big family), and it cost us MORE for them to use fewer materials, time, and labor in construction. Crazy. :-D

How much $ was the upgrade fee, and how much $ is the change order fee? If the upgrade fee is significantly more than the change order fee (and only you can decide if the difference is significant or not), then put through a change order.

"A change requires a change order and a developer makes money on change orders period, unfortunately."

There is nothing "unfortunate" about a builder charging for the additional time and risk involved in changes. This builder had a perfectly fine thing going on. The OP wanted to change it. Fine, here's the fee. Fine. Now I want to change it back. Fine, I'm keeping the fee. Seems perfectly fair to me.

Don't want to pay change order fees? Don't change your mind. Twice.

@Joseph Nothing had to be changed on the builders side.The $500 upgrade fee was simply for a larger slab which hasn't even been ordered yet. So what exactly are you talking about?? Please tell me what's time consuming about ordering a slab of quartz and placing it on top of some wood?

@Lindsey Change order fee is $250....Upgrade was $500 to go from 3x8 to 4x8

my overhang is only 10" and I'm sitting at the island right now just fine.

I think 12" would be better.

I can't read clearances but it looks like you will have 48" from stove/fridge to island [minus the overhangs].

Can't tell about the pantry side...is it at least 36" ?

If it seems too big I'd bring it down and eat the fee. We've all paid 'duh' fees in life.

Listen to @mama goose_gw zn6OH. she gives great advice. My fridge clearance side was messed up a little and we ended up only 40" fridge to counter. Wasn't worth re-working the wall [discovered too late by me and hubby built the wall...lol] for 6" but do wish I had noticed it sooner.

@Trish. pic for reference if you don't mind?

my island is 4x7 I believe.

The minimum recommended overhang for seating:

• Table-height (30" off the floor) - 18"
• Counter-height (36" off the floor) - 15" (no, not 10" or even 12")
• Bar-height (42" off the floor) - 12" (but with an 18-inch surface to minimize knocking things off the surface and down to the lower counter or floor)
• Overhang means "clear leg/knee space" -- after accounting for cabinets and decorative doors/end panels on the cabinets
• The only time less might be OK is if you and your entire family are very short and have short legs. The minimum is for average height. In fact, if anyone is tall in your family or has long legs, deeper is better.
• With an island 48" deep, you should have room for at least 15" of overhang. Don't skimp! (Skimping does not "save" aisle space, people just stick out into the aisle farther and they're uncomfortable if they are seated for more than a few short minutes.)

For seating, keep in mind that you need at least 2 linear feet (or 24 linear inches) for each seat. If you want 4 seats, that means 8' (96").

Another consideration...your Cleanup Zone is in your island. That means dirty dishes will be "in the face" of anyone sitting at the island. If you reduce it to only 3' deep, it will be even worse.

Prep Zone...your Prep Zone is in the island, on the non-DW side of the sink. You don't have very much workspace as it is. Reducing the island to 7' will make it even worse.

Finally, with the small amount of prep space you have, you don't want to be juggling prep dishes/tools while trying to prepare a meal, which may very well happen if you reduce the island to only 36" deep.

Bottom line: I recommend sticking with the 4' x 8' island size.

You appear to have enough space for a 4' depth and still have room around the island for 48" aisles, so leave it as-is.

Regarding the aisle between the island and range wall...because you have the range and DW overlapping and the sink across from the range, you should have at least a 48-inch aisle between the range handles and the island counter edge. That will help minimize the conflict with the DW and range and, hopefully, minimize accidents when trying to use the range while the DW is open as well as minimize collisions when someone is working at the sink while someone else is working at the range.

Speaking of aisles, aisles are measured to/from the items sticking out the farthest -- appliance handles, counter edges, etc. They are NOT measured to/from cabinets. The 24" depth for a cabinet only includes the box -- it does not include door/drawer fronts, counter overhangs (~1.5"), appliances, etc. This means the aisles are incorrectly measured if they are measured to/from cabinets, as appears to be the case for you. If that's the case, then in reality, your aisles are at least 3" narrower than shown. So, that 48" aisle is really only 43.5", too narrow with the range and DW overlapping and the sink across from the range. (48" - 1.5" island overhang - 1.5" perimeter counter overhang - another 1.5" or so for the range's handle that sticks out past the counters = 43.5" (if the handles stick out farther, then the aisle will be even narrower).)

I'm assuming the layout is finalized and cannot be changed with regards to cabinetry, fixtures (sink), and appliances.

Is that really a 24" wide range?

Is the refrigerator a built-in refrigerator as opposed to a counter-depth?

@Buehl all that is really great advice. I'm going back out to measure tomorrow to get a better understanding.

I'm not sure where that "24 range measurement came from . Whats the standard size supposed to be? And if it is, is that a bad thing..Ill ask my GC tomorrow about the Fridge being built in or counter depth.

So just by looking at my floorplan, seeing that its built around the 3x8 island, you think the 4x8 will work?

Something like this:

Is it bad? I don't know.

Where do you live? In the USA? If the USA, then 30" is standard. However, others here have stated that narrower ranges are more common in other parts of the world.

Never knew that about overhang when I planned my kitchen. Bummer. Oh well. Keep in mind you need support for overhangs >10" or so.

I’m not there in your kitchen and don’t feel the space. But the bigger island looks awesome to me. i would want 48” between island and fridge though. Id measure.